Why Not Share Your Secrets?

I play on the week ends for fun with a small group of players. I play much better then they do. When I try to give them pointers or show them how to shoot a shot they are having trouble with or do not know how to get position on the next ball they almost seem insulted that I'm telling them. So I stopped doing it. Let them struggle.

measureman said:

I play on the week ends for fun with a small group of players. I play much better then they do. When I try to give them pointers or show them how to shoot a shot they are having trouble with or do not know how to get position on the next ball they almost seem insulted that I'm telling them. So I stopped doing it. Let them struggle.

Click to expand...

Or they argue with you.

It depends on the person. If the person is respectful of the game and has a desire to really want to learn the game I have no problem helping them. In fact I get allot out of seeing somebody improve from information I've shared with them.

But if they're a Ahole, forget it, I dont bother with them.

I remember one guy at a pool hall that was woofing all over the place, setting his beer on the rail of the table, shooting while having a cigarette hanging from his mouth and dropping his ashes on the table. This guy comes over and starts watching me play. I was studying a difficult kick shot and after a little bit of looking it over I shot it and made it. The guy then walks up to me while I'm shooting the next shot and asks me how I did that. I looked at him with a straight face and said, "well, the first thing you got to do is block out all distractions". Then I went back to shooting my game while he stood there dumbfounded!

The guy I was playing started laughing so hard he had tears coming out of his eyes.

Not funny, you shoulda helped him out. He might even turned out ok.

Share secrets??? No way!!!

Some secrets are just too valuable to give up only because they took a long time to discover them. Years ago when I played often I hardly ever gave up a lot of secrets.

Now that I'm old, I don't mind giving up some secrets if I like the player and I see that he/she is working hard at their game. But, for the reason measureman mentioned, I don't volunteer anything. If that player asks, I'll likely tell. (old tongues like to wag, ya know)

Mitchxout said:

Not funny, you shoulda helped him out. He might even turned out ok.

Click to expand...

Well, maybe... maybe not, You would have had to been there to totally understand how much of a drunken jerk this guy was. It's been my experience that guys like that don't learn, even after the room owner had to tell him to leave for spilling his beer on a table.

Cdryden said:

It depends on the person. If the person is respectful of the game and has a desire to really want to learn the game I have no problem helping them. In fact I get allot out of seeing somebody improve from information I've shared with them.

But if they're a Ahole, forget it, I dont bother with them.

I remember one guy at a pool hall that was woofing all over the place, setting his beer on the rail of the table, shooting while having a cigarette hanging from his mouth and dropping his ashes on the table. This guy comes over and starts watching me play. I was studying a difficult kick shot and after a little bit of looking it over I shot it and made it. The guy then walks up to me while I'm shooting the next shot and asks me how I did that. I looked at him with a straight face and said, "well, the first thing you got to do is block out all distractions". Then I went back to shooting my game while he stood there dumbfounded!

The guy I was playing started laughing so hard he had tears coming out of his eyes.

Click to expand...

That's a great line! I may have to borrow that.

Another reason, although antiquated, is that some of the gamblers believe the old philosophy of keeping your customers dumb.

I think that by educating your customers and friends, you increase the size of the pie and thereby increase the chances of you having a slice in the future, along with just being a nice guy. It's one of the reasons why I participate in pool forums. :smile:

JoeyA said:

Another reason, although antiquated, is that some of the gamblers believe the old philosophy of keeping your customers dumb.

Click to expand...

Correct! Would Bill Gates share the Secrets of Microsoft with the World?

Bob Jewett said:

The funny things about those hoarded "secrets":

They aren't secrets, usually. Most of what people think of as secrets are there in the open if you know where to look. The "secret" of backhand english was in print over 170 years ago. Most pool players don't read about pool.

Many of the "secrets" are crap. Well, maybe that's a little harsh, but often "secrets" are not quite right or overlook important details or will lead the player down dead ends. If you are the recipient of a "secret" you need to make sure it is actually useful in your game and you should start to think about problems with and extensions to the "secret".

Click to expand...

Bob-

Is BHE discussed, suggested in Mingaud's writings? Or another author?

thanks

JoeyA said:

Another reason, although antiquated, is that some of the gamblers believe the old philosophy of keeping your customers dumb.

I think that by educating your customers and friends, you increase the size of the pie and thereby increase the chances of you having a slice in the future, along with just being a nice guy. It's one of the reasons why I participate in pool forums. :smile:

Click to expand...

Joey, I agree with you on one hand but not on the other.

It is an old philosophy of gamblers to protect there secrets, but you have to understand that it was their business. Each gambler was essentially an entrepreneur. So today we may call it secrets, but to them it was proprietary information. It was how they made a living. Today it has begun to be difficult to make a living playing. The economy is making it more difficult.

I don't begrudge the pros at all for keeping their secrets. If we don't have icons that our sport hold dear, the sport will keep falling. They took alot of time, effort and intelligence to learn one tidbit of knowledge, they shoulder give it out to others that don’t spend the time or have the talent to fully utilize the information, just out of the kindness of their heart.

Think of it in terms of KFC, look how far their secret ingredients took them. Their the second or third largest restaurant in the world. Again, proprietary information.

I'm just saying, let's not demonize pros for giving away information to amateurs. Info that is about their livelihood.

keithjohn said:

Joey, I agree with you on one hand but not on the other.

It is an old philosophy of gamblers to protect there secrets, but you have to understand that it was their business. Each gambler was essentially an entrepreneur. So today we may call it secrets, but to them it was proprietary information. It was how they made a living. Today it has begun to be difficult to make a living playing. The economy is making it more difficult.

I don't begrudge the pros at all for keeping their secrets. If we don't have icons that our sport hold dear, the sport will keep falling. They took alot of time, effort and intelligence to learn one tidbit of knowledge, they shoulder give it out to others that don’t spend the time or have the talent to fully utilize the information, just out of the kindness of their heart.

Think of it in terms of KFC, look how far their secret ingredients took them. Their the second or third largest restaurant in the world. Again, proprietary information.

I'm just saying, let's not demonize pros for giving away information to amateurs. Info that is about their livelihood.

Click to expand...

I don't know who is demonizing the pros or even the gamblers. Personally, I don't consider the gamblers to be pros/professionals. I think there is a major difference between the two groups and I like both of them.

That being said, my thoughts are that if you share the "SECRETS" with your prospective customers, they will become more enthused about the game, win more matches/money and thereby have more money to gamble with, more love for the game and everyone wins.

No matter how many "SECRETS" you give away, most people will never be able to utilize the information the way that you do and you will of course continue to add to your database of "SECRETS".

To those who don't believe there are any "SECRETS" out there:

As I've said before, when a pro player like Ralf Souquet, declines to share his method/technique/mental imagery/SECRET to his composure, you have to call that a "SECRET".

When you ask a gambler who just beat your brains in, how he made that one key shot in the match and he won't tell you, THAT'S A "SECRET", because it's being kept from you.

There are lots of "SECRETS" out there. Some of them are kept from you because of sloth on your part. (It's all a matter of persective).

having been retired about 15 years and loving pool the way i do, i share all the "secrets' that i have. i find that at this age i am not longer able to shoot like i did 25 years ago. for those people that want to learn i am more than happy to share, why not? i find that teaching even helps me shoot a little better. last night was the last tournament i would play in this country and we won! ( i leave for the usa thursday) it was rewarding for me last night receiving all the thanks from those that i have helped. we need to be promoting the game. :thumbup:

Once you learn how to learn, there are no secrets.

Someone asks me how I do something, I tell them, but they have to ask first. By asking, this shows me they want to know. What I found is that alot of people aren't willing to ask. I see it in their faces after I do a very aggressive shot or a shot they believe "can't be made". There is the "how the hell" look on their face, but don't ask how I did it.

seemingly conflicting reasons

I don't hesitate to give away something somebody doesn't know if they ask. First because it is only one piece in the puzzle that combines to be all I know, and equally importantly most likely the people given the information will make little or no use of it.

I don't significantly help one in twenty people who come to me asking for help. Not because of unwillingness on my part, because of lack of effort and followthrough on theirs. After years of seeing this it does seem like wasted effort to try to help people. Almost all won't help themselves and are just looking for a magic bullet. Some people may hold their secrets too highly to reveal them, most I suspect are just tired of wasting their time trying to help people that can't be helped.

Hu

I feel what Bob Jewett said bears restating: there are two kinds of "secrets" in pool: secrets that aren't secret at all, and secrets that are false. Many "secrets" even fit into both categories.

I'm a B player with a solid understanding of the physics of pool, and I play frequently with one or two A players who don't understand the physics. One day, I got to be close enough friends with one of these A players, that while I was shooting he decided to show me another, "secret" way to execute a certain top-spin shot with extreme inside english, that I had just failed to execute correctly. He said the shot was too difficult shooting it conventionally, but he had found a special stroke, through hours of practice, where he could stroke hard with low right, but the twist in his wrist would reverse the english and consistently execute the shot.

So I watched him, and he did line up with low right, and he did this funky stroke where he twisted his wrist, and sure enough, he got the 3-rail shape I had been trying to get with high left. I told him he didn't hit the ball with low right (because I knew that the wrist-twist couldn't possibly do what he was claiming it did), and set the shot up again, using a striped ball as the CB. He successfully executed it again, and I showed him his chalk mark, and made my point.

"Secrets" don't have to be true to work for the people who think they "know" them. The ones that are true are readily available if you just study the game.

-Andrew

I do share my secrets. As a matter of fact my book, GO FROM A WINNING POSITION IN ONE POCKET TO LOSING WITH ONE SHOT, is now in it's seventh printing.:smile::smile::smile::smile: