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The WWYD Thread... - 09-09-2020, 09:07 AM

In the spirit of the WWYD (getting on the 2) thread, (and not wanting to highjack it) I thought I'd give generating an ongoing discussion of various shots a try.

I was just watching the latest 'Earl commentated' Billiards Network video. An EuroTour match between Filler and Kazakis. In the first few racks Filler makes some odd choices imo. This particular one jumps out to me because it illustrates how opting to play lazy shape on a would be easy combo can bite you in the ass. (aka the fore mentioned thread)

Here's the screen shot:
Name:  filler.jpg
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Personally, I would use running english, play two rails and go short side on the 7 and play it into the corner Filler is shooting from.

Here's what Filler does.
https://youtu.be/22iHov8h604?t=2179

After watching this I went down to the table with the screen shot. Set it up, and got on the 7 short side in all my three attempts. Each of the 3 attempts had the 3 ball off the top rail by small varying amounts.

What would you do...?


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Last edited by The_JV; 09-09-2020 at 09:11 AM. Reason: resized image
  
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09-09-2020, 10:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_JV View Post
In the spirit of the WWYD (getting on the 2) thread, (and not wanting to highjack it) I thought I'd give generating an ongoing discussion of various shots a try.

I was just watching the latest 'Earl commentated' Billiards Network video. An EuroTour match between Filler and Kazakis. In the first few racks Filler makes some odd choices imo. This particular one jumps out to me because it illustrates how opting to play lazy shape on a would be easy combo can bite you in the ass. (aka the fore mentioned thread)

Here's the screen shot:
Attachment 557076
Personally, I would use running english, play two rails and go short side on the 7 and play it into the corner Filler is shooting from.

Here's what Filler does.
https://youtu.be/22iHov8h604?t=2179

After watching this I went down to the table with the screen shot. Set it up, and got on the 7 short side in all my three attempts. Each of the 3 attempts had the 3 ball off the top rail by small varying amounts.

What would you do...?
If I shot the combo...probably exactly what Filler did...

I'd try the two/three rail, short side, position for the 7 downtable (yes BB, "downtable").
  
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09-09-2020, 10:18 AM

I think the position”zone” for the combo is larger than getting between the 9 and the ball
Plus I think Joshua didn’t think the combo was that tough a make
  
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09-09-2020, 10:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
I think the position”zone” for the combo is larger than getting between the 9 and the ball
Plus I think Joshua didn’t think the combo was that tough a make
It is larger...now, if the 9 was off the rail a bit I'd have to rethink my approach...if it was on the rail, I'd probably stick to trying the short shape on the 7.
  
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09-09-2020, 10:23 AM

Lazy shape was the shot to get on the combo? I think there was a bit of showing off there* (and as executed, rightfully so) and the shape for the combo was spot on.

He hit the combo bad. that's why we learned not to play shape for combos.

*as in the other wwyd thread, I'd be going 3 rails to the combo, but hitting the end (see, jimeyG?) rail closer to the corner makes opposite side pocket scratch more likely.


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09-09-2020, 10:39 AM

I like playing the shot with a high CB, as you suggested. But I’m not convinced it was available. Or maybe it was, but the side pocket was big from that angle with a high ball. It looks like he would have to hit the long rail before the side pocket to get good on the ball. Maybe he felt either he couldn’t get where he wanted to be or the side pocket was in play if he elected to use top spin. A lot of factors could’ve influenced his decision, like slick cloth or tighter pockets (inability to cheat the pocket to create a slightly different CB path).

At any rate, I don’t like combinations so I’m always looking at other options when those shots come up.

Edit: I just set the shot up a few times and got dead perfect short side each time. Looks a lot different in front of me than the pic above. The side pocket definitely isn’t in play, lol. I even moved the 5 a full diamond off the rail and still got decent short side position. That’s definitely the route I would choose.

Last edited by peppersauce; 09-09-2020 at 11:25 AM.
  
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09-09-2020, 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Lazy shape was the shot to get on the combo? I think there was a bit of showing off there* (and as executed, rightfully so) and the shape for the combo was spot on.
By "lazy" I mean he treated it like a certainty without regard to landing bad.

For sake of full disclosure, my first instinct is to avoid combos at all costs and if it seems like the best option, then do the next best one. With that said, it's safe to assume I do not have a handle on the best spot to shot that combo. I wouldn't have thought it would have been a blind back cut into a ball that needs to cut the opposite way...

I guess by definition "shape" on the combo constitutes being nearly anywhere above the 7 and not snookered by the 8 ball. So yes, the target zone is considerably larger than the short side.

Obviously I have zero credits/titles to my name that give me the right to question Filler. I was just surprised that he opted to swing in such a haphazard fashion at combo that was really unnecessary.


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09-09-2020, 11:30 AM

I think Filler figured he couldn't miss because the 9 was a little off the rail. It was a little too much off the rail and he landed the 7 exactly in the middle of the shot, which is rail and ball at the same time. Unfortunately, that doesn't make. A little fuller or a little thinner does go.

Earl suggested the 9 on a billiard. See PoolManis's recent post on caroms in the Deep Knowledge thread for what Earl is talking about.


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09-09-2020, 12:06 PM

I feel Joshua didn’t respect the combo enough.
Where was he going with whitey?
...just roll it in pocket weight, let whitey go to the short rail.
Basically, you play the combo “if you miss, you lose”...you’ll make a lot more.


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09-09-2020, 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
I feel Joshua didn’t respect the combo enough.
Where was he going with whitey?
...just roll it in pocket weight, let whitey go to the short rail.
Basically, you play the combo “if you miss, you lose”...you’ll make a lot more.
I think the combo was bigger at a slower speed, too.


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09-09-2020, 01:30 PM

Hey! Good job finding this shot. Very similar to mine
  
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09-09-2020, 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by peppersauce View Post
Edit: I just set the shot up a few times and got dead perfect short side each time. Looks a lot different in front of me than the pic above. The side pocket definitely isn’t in play, lol. I even moved the 5 a full diamond off the rail and still got decent short side position. That’s definitely the route I would choose.
This is why I was encouraging everyone in the 'WWYD ....getting on the 2' thread to actually try going topside of the 9 ball. Waaay more difficult then (again running english) path below the 9.


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09-09-2020, 03:50 PM

Using running spin to get behind the seven ball off 2 cushions appears to me like you’re going to have to hit the long rail before the side pocket, rather than after it. I’d be weary of scratching in the side pocket or hitting the side pocket far point, as regardless of whether you’re coming in below or above the side pocket, you’re going to have to come real close to that side pocket. That is likely why I believe Filler played it the way he did to set up the combo.

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 09-09-2020 at 03:53 PM.
  
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09-09-2020, 06:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
Using running spin to get behind the seven ball off 2 cushions appears to me like you’re going to have to hit the long rail before the side pocket, rather than after it. I’d be weary of scratching in the side pocket or hitting the side pocket far point, as regardless of whether you’re coming in below or above the side pocket, you’re going to have to come real close to that side pocket. That is likely why I believe Filler played it the way he did to set up the combo.
He has that option though. It would not make financial sense for me to pretend I'm going to go straight up table


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09-10-2020, 04:28 AM

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.....you’re going to have to come real close to that side pocket. That is likely why I believe Filler played it the way he did to set up the combo.
In all my attempts I never threatened the side pocket. In fact I felt it so unlikely standing over the shot that the possiblity wasn't more than slightest blip on my radar. I'm supremely confident that I can determine that a sewer isn't on, then Filler would have come to the same conclusion much faster.

I have zero doubt his decision to play the combo was just a means to finish the rack faster with what should have been a simple combo, even by my standards. The path he choose to get their was foolhearty and it bit him in the ass. I don't think I could have put the CB in a worst spot than he did for that combo.


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