10 ball ghost

[Black-Balled]

So as for the scoring...

Playing 10 Racks, hoping for 100 balls...

Rack 1 for example, if I don't run the rack I'm negative the # of balls I left up?...is that correct?

gonna add it to my routine, playing a Vegas Singles Qualifier next weekend...see ya in Sin City!

thx~

Don't make it difficult. Here is what you do- rack 10b, break take ball in hand, shoot balls in order until you miss or the 10 is gone. Then count the # of balls made and that is your score for the rack.
Rack 'em, sausage.
Keep doing that until 10 racks completed, add up your score and that is your #.

 

[Snapshot9]

Mathematically speaking ...

In my opinion 15 balls in one pocket would be very much harder than running a 15 ball rotation using 6 pockets.

and assuming you are talking about 1 turn at the table, the
probablility ratio for running 15 balls in 1 pocket is much lower
than running a rack of rotation. Part of the problem is due to
'logistics'. In rotation, you have more control over logistics
of the balls with more options, and you can position the cue
ball to your favor, but in running 15 balls to 1 pocket, the
location of the object ball itself would be greater cause
for lowering the probabliltiy of making the ball into 1 designated
pocket. I have not taken the time to set up a statistical model
for it, but I am pretty sure the probability for running 15 balls
into 1 pocket on 1 turn is far far less than running a rack of
rotation.

 

[Black-Balled]

...In rotation, you have more control over logistics
of the balls with more options...I am pretty sure the probability for running 15 balls
into 1 pocket on 1 turn is far far less than running a rack of
rotation.

I am not sold still. One game dictates which ball you must shoot next, that changes the 'control' factor.

 

[unknownpro]

and assuming you are talking about 1 turn at the table, the
probablility ratio for running 15 balls in 1 pocket is much lower
than running a rack of rotation. Part of the problem is due to
'logistics'. In rotation, you have more control over logistics
of the balls with more options, and you can position the cue
ball to your favor, but in running 15 balls to 1 pocket, the
location of the object ball itself would be greater cause
for lowering the probabliltiy of making the ball into 1 designated
pocket. I have not taken the time to set up a statistical model
for it, but I am pretty sure the probability for running 15 balls
into 1 pocket on 1 turn is far far less than running a rack of
rotation.

Maybe. How about trying that 10 rack score with the 15 ball rotation ghost and the 15 ball one-hole ghost and see how they compare. I don't play much one-pocket but I've run 15 several times, I've also run 15 ball rotation several times but I mostly played that as a kid. Maybe if I try it now I'll beat the 15 ball ghost and see that it's much easier. I hope so. Maybe I'm better now than I was then. And then I can just skip over 12 where I am stuck now, wasn't looking forward much to 13 and 14 anyway...

unknownpro

 

[Joe T]

Maybe. How about trying that 10 rack score with the 15 ball rotation ghost and the 15 ball one-hole ghost and see how they compare. I don't play much one-pocket but I've run 15 several times, I've also run 15 ball rotation several times but I mostly played that as a kid. Maybe if I try it now I'll beat the 15 ball ghost and see that it's much easier. I hope so. Maybe I'm better now than I was then. And then I can just skip over 12 where I am stuck now, wasn't looking forward much to 13 and 14 anyway...

unknownpro

I haven't practiced that way for at least a year or so but when I was, I was stuck on 12 also.

 

[BAZARUS]

I did a drill for years with 10 ball break ball in hand and score 1 point for for each ball pocketed for 10 racks. The rating method I use for myself and my students is slightly higher than it use to be, players are getting better;
75+ Pro
65+ SS
55+ A
45+ B
35+ C
20+ D
Under 20 beginner or social player.

It helps to keep practice interesting for all levels and is nice to watch your average go up over the years. When I first started I was in the 40's.
Highest I've seen was a 98. Steve Tavenier actually sank 100 balls in a competition we ran here in Providence but he scratched in the 10th rack and that was -2!

This will be one of my favorites drills. Today's score 62.

 

[Egg McDogit]

I think the scoring system needs to be bumped at least 15-20 points to be realistic.

I did a drill for years with 10 ball break ball in hand and score 1 point for for each ball pocketed for 10 racks. The rating method I use for myself and my students is slightly higher than it use to be, players are getting better;
75+ Pro
65+ SS
55+ A
45+ B
35+ C
20+ D
Under 20 beginner or social player.

 

[Hal]

Running 15 balls into one pocket without missing in one turn at the table is freakin' STOUT. Period.

 

[frankncali]

I think the scoring system needs to be bumped at least 15-20 points to be realistic.

Do you think all levels should be moved or just some of them. I think "10" as a gap is fine for the lower levels but not the higher ones. I coule see maybe 78 or 80 for Pro level but not really much higher.

I think it would be cool to get a bunch of people to do honest efforts in this
format and track it. Different player levels would be needed with a few "controls" in the mix.

A bad spread or two in a set of ten could kill a Pros average.

 

[Sharkeyes]

Troy Frank came down to Marietta a little while back and played the 15 ball ghost for $500 a rack 5-1 odds. He ended up breaking even after a few racks.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Troy Frank came down to Marietta a little while back and played the 15 ball ghost for $500 a rack 5-1 odds. He ended up breaking even after a few racks.

For a pro, 5-1 odds and breaking even is not very strong. You would be surprised at how many pros can run a rack of rotation with ball in hand after the break.

Tang Hoa used to play the 15 ball ghost on 2-1 money per game and win. The last time he did that he had long quit playing pool but wanted some practice, so he got the regulars to give him 4-1 odds and he busted them. They were friends of his so he let them out for half.

 

[Joe T]

I think the scoring system needs to be bumped at least 15-20 points to be realistic.

For the top end players now a days you may be right and may have to up it a little but keep in mind it's not a one time score that qualifies or rates you, it would be your average and I didn't just make up that rating chart, I ran an actually league using it, (I recieved thousands of individual scores), have gambled with professional players and always used it to rate my students for a starting point and it was right on the money most of the time.
Bumped at least 15-20 to be realistic is a little too much of a bump.

 

[pooladdict]

For the top end players now a days you may be right and may have to up it a little but keep in mind it's not a one time score that qualifies or rates you, it would be your average and I didn't just make up that rating chart, I ran an actually league using it, (I recieved thousands of individual scores), have gambled with professional players and always used it to rate my students for a starting point and it was right on the money most of the time.
Bumped at least 15-20 to be realistic is a little too much of a bump.

One factor which should be considered is the size of the pockets - which in my opinion is a huge factor here. Playing the ghost with 4 1/2 inch size pockets or playing on a table with buckets for holes is a big difference.

Joe, if your scale of 75 is Pro status, and was developed on a normal pocket size table - whatever that is - should e.g. a "tight pocket scale" be 75*0,9 = 68 and "bucket scale" 75*1,1 = 83?

Or am I making this to complicated?

 

[Joe T]

One factor which should be considered is the size of the pockets - which in my opinion is a huge factor here. Playing the ghost with 4 1/2 inch size pockets or playing on a table with buckets for holes is a big difference.

Joe, if your scale of 75 is Pro status, and was developed on a normal pocket size table - whatever that is - should e.g. a "tight pocket scale" be 75*0,9 = 68 and "bucket scale" 75*1,1 = 83?

Or am I making this to complicated?

That I really don't have the answer for but it is a factor. One of the rooms that participated in our league did have tougher playing pockets and the general consensus was that those players were going to come into the final event on normal tables with handicaps that were established on tougher tables and have an advantage. Fortunately it didn't end up being a factor but I'm pretty sure it would in the long run.

 

[Black-Balled]

I went 10, 10, 2, 8, 10, 6, 10, 6, 4, 10 for a total of 101028106106410! I use new math for my version.
j/k- total =76. My home table has buckets, btw.

 

[catscradle]

10 ball out of turn doesn't matter, the only way to score 10 is to run all ten balls.

Joe,
I'll chime in here on your behalf. Joe has produced a book (booklet?) called "Guaranteed Improvement" the 10-ball drill described in this thread is just one of the drills in it. All the drills have a scale for evaluating your level of play based upon your performance. I would suggest that it is a book worth having. If nothing else your score across all the drills will give a very accurate accessment of your level, and I think if you can stick with the drills on a regular schedule, something I admittedly have trouble with, you'll find improvement does indeed happen.
JMHO, Steve.

 

[BAZARUS]

One factor which should be considered is the size of the pockets - which in my opinion is a huge factor here. Playing the ghost with 4 1/2 inch size pockets or playing on a table with buckets for holes is a big difference.

Joe, if your scale of 75 is Pro status, and was developed on a normal pocket size table - whatever that is - should e.g. a "tight pocket scale" be 75*0,9 = 68 and "bucket scale" 75*1,1 = 83?

Or am I making this to complicated?

That is a really good observation. I wasn't even thinking about it even though that my table have tide pockets: entrance of a corner pocket = 4 3/4", back of a corner pocket 3 3/4".
I think nowdays we should be thinking about tide pockets 24/7 since all the mayor tourneys are on Diamond Pro Cut Pockets.
That rating would have to be totaly different in 50's when Masconi was playing on 5.5" buckets!

 

[Egg McDogit]

Do you think all levels should be moved or just some of them. I think "10" as a gap is fine for the lower levels but not the higher ones. I coule see maybe 78 or 80 for Pro level but not really much higher.

I think it should be something like this...with the fringes being A-/B+, etc.

85+ SS through pro
73 - A
60 - B
40 - C
20 - D
Under 20 beginner or social player.

 

[Egg McDogit]

my friend and I tried it a couple times and we know our speeds...our averages were way off what we should be rated as...maybe 15-20 is a bit much tho...just my opinion

For the top end players now a days you may be right and may have to up it a little but keep in mind it's not a one time score that qualifies or rates you, it would be your average and I didn't just make up that rating chart, I ran an actually league using it, (I recieved thousands of individual scores), have gambled with professional players and always used it to rate my students for a starting point and it was right on the money most of the time.
Bumped at least 15-20 to be realistic is a little too much of a bump.

 

[Salamander]

Can someone clarify the following for me concerning Joe's drill?

Are balls spotted that fall on the break, or do they stay down?

If the 10 is made on the break is it respotted or is it a win (I imagine respotted)?

Lastly, on a general note....if someone is playing the "traditional" nine-ball ghost are any balls spotted that are made on the break? If the nine is made is it a win?

Thanks in advance,

Doug