100 ball runs...

Gerry

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Asking the old school powers that be: I'm wondering how often the kings of 14.1 actually ran 100's? I've heard Grady say on a tape that Harold Worst practiced every day til he ran 200!:eek: . I've also heard about all the great players giving exhibitions and hitting 100 most every time. Is this just a very small percentage of the population of 14.1 greats, or was it more common to hit the century mark?

The reason I ask is I have hit the wall badly practicing 14.1. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I am running 40/50/60 every day, but can't get to 100!!:mad: I don't know what to try? I"m keeping track of my runs and run stoppers, going over video, but holy friggin crap I want to smash something!!


Maybe I need a break, but I made a resolution to hit 100 again this year, so I wanted to get it over with early in the year....I dunno..:(

Backing away from the ledge...

Gerry
 
I believe that they did in fact run 100's on a daily basis. I'm only in my 30's so I can't say I saw the legends during straight pool's heyday, but the reason that I believe they did run regular 100's is this: around 1997-2000 I used to watch and sometimes rack for Johnny Ervolino at ABC in NYC, and believe me he ran over 100 nearly every day on a tight pocketed table and he was in his 60's! He said that he was much better in his prime which he says was in the 1960's. In fact, if I commented to him that I saw so and so run 120 balls he would say "you make it sound like that's a lot of balls but it's not" He said that Michael Eufemia ran 200 balls almost every day in practice. So all in all I'd say those legends did run 100's as often as we hear.

Bobby
 
Joe Balsis was famous for walking in to a poolroom and asking what the house record run was. If the room proprietor said "it is 186", Balsis would say "not when I leave, it isn't." Cocky fellow who could back it up!

Then there's the legendary story of when former pro Rusty Miller aranged to have Mike Sigel make an appearance at The Gramercy Club in NYC in the early 1980's. In his first inning, Sigel was running around 85 in the race to 100 when former NYC mayor John Lindsay walked in. After Sigel completed his 100 and out for a one-inning win in the race to 100, Rusty introduced him to Lindsay, who commented to Mike that he wished he would have seen the entire 100 ball run. Sigel, in his inimitable way, said to Lindsay, "want me to do it again?"

The great ones ran 100's almost at will.
 
If you're running 40,50,60's everyday, then IMO you should be hitting a hundred at least 6 times a year (every couple of months), if not more. If you are not than I would imagine that you are having mental blocks. If you look at it from a statistical standpoint you should be hitting the occasional 100 every so often.

Perhaps if you quit attaching so much significance to it, you might find yourself getting higher runs.

Back to you're original question....I'm not old enough to have watched the greats, but I know of one player who specialized in straight pool, and can and does run 100 + at least every couple of weeks. He's a nobody. I imagine the old time somebody's could run 100 frequently.

In my opinion, it is just a number. What is important is if you play the game correctly...ie...never leave the table on a miss. It is mentioned somewhere in Mosconi's autobiography about one of the greats (I forget who) that was known for his "run 30 and duck" game. He was one of the greatest players of his time and played a real nice "tight" perfect game. Anyone facing him knew they were in a battle and very well might not get a shot.

Best of luck to you.

Doug
 
The greats did run hundreds regularly. I know quite a few unknown players who did it with some regularity and I hear all the great players used to when 14.1 was the game everyone played. I witnessed Alex Pagulayan in a match a few years ago against T.J., a room owner from Maine. Many of you haven't heard of him I'm sure but he is a good player although never a champion even in his prime. Alex ran twenty something the first game. T.J. ran 100 and out. The 2nd game Alex ran fifty something. T.J. ran 100 and out. The 3rd game Alex ran 80+. Again T.J. ran 100 and out. Quite an impressive display. As for Alex, he still had an alright week as he won the 9-ball event the first weekend, the one pocket and 8-ball events in the middle of the week, the bigger 9-ball event the following weekend, and the cue raffle as well.
 
Mike Davis said:
As for Alex, he still had an alright week as he won the 9-ball event the first weekend, the one pocket and 8-ball events in the middle of the week, the bigger 9-ball event the following weekend, and the cue raffle as well.
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I'da won the break pot too :)
 
Mike Davis said:
The greats did run hundreds regularly. I know quite a few unknown players who did it with some regularity and I hear all the great players used to when 14.1 was the game everyone played. I witnessed Alex Pagulayan in a match a few years ago against T.J., a room owner from Maine. Many of you haven't heard of him I'm sure but he is a good player although never a champion even in his prime. Alex ran twenty something the first game. T.J. ran 100 and out. The 2nd game Alex ran fifty something. T.J. ran 100 and out. The 3rd game Alex ran 80+. Again T.J. ran 100 and out. Quite an impressive display. As for Alex, he still had an alright week as he won the 9-ball event the first weekend, the one pocket and 8-ball events in the middle of the week, the bigger 9-ball event the following weekend, and the cue raffle as well.
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Hi Mike,
Just curious but whats your best run, do you play straight pool much?

Cheers

Craig
 
Hang in there, Ger, you'll hit that century mark! A comment was made in one of the posts that the great ones can run 100 almost at will. I think John Schmidt proved that at the Derby City Classic this year. The ACCU-STAT folks wanted to tape John making a 100 ball run, and figured it would take a bunch of takes (I heard it took the Miz a zillion takes to make the old Miller Light commercial trick shot). On his second try, John ran 112 (I think). All that pressure, cameras running, tough table, and he just jumps up and gets 'er done. The "30 and duck" player sounds a lot like Irving Crane; he was reputed to be the toughest defensive 14.1 player of all time. The Sigel story was a classic; I think confidence is a beautiful thing (if you can back it up).
 
Bobby said:
I believe that they did in fact run 100's on a daily basis. I'm only in my 30's so I can't say I saw the legends during straight pool's heyday, but the reason that I believe they did run regular 100's is this: around 1997-2000 I used to watch and sometimes rack for Johnny Ervolino at ABC in NYC, and believe me he ran over 100 nearly every day on a tight pocketed table and he was in his 60's! He said that he was much better in his prime which he says was in the 1960's. In fact, if I commented to him that I saw so and so run 120 balls he would say "you make it sound like that's a lot of balls but it's not" He said that Michael Eufemia ran 200 balls almost every day in practice. So all in all I'd say those legends did run 100's as often as we hear.

Bobby
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Before Johnny Ervolino began playing at ABC, he played at Chelsea Billiards on 21st St. There, I also saw him make lots of 100+ runs. He could maneuver the cueball on the tightest, fastest tables better than anyone I've ever seen.

One day, George Makula and I watched him run 99 on a table covered with Simonis 760 (about twice as fast as 860) that had pockets shimmed so tightly there was barely a 1/2" clearance on each side for a ball. George called it the greatest run he'd ever seen.

And George Makula knew his straight pool. George would run 100 every day, sometimes several times, with quite a few 200's. For years George held the Chelsea Billiards record of something like 250.

George, in fact, taught Ginky straight pool, and there is no doubt that Ginky's straight pool excellence stems from the knowledge George passed on to him.
 
I'm pretty sure the "run 30 and duck" guy was Irving Crane, too. He won a lot of matches that way but he was also the greatest 14.1 safety player in history.

Running 100's at home is almost expected of the better players if they're practicing. Danny Harriman runs 100 almost every day he practices according to one of his friends. Thorsten Holmann reportedly says he needs only an average of three tries to run 150 (maybe not on a table like at the DCC). He ran 125 and out in 3/6 matches last year when he dominated the Euro 14.1 championship.

Mike Sigel makes a great point on a tape of Ortmann vs Varner. Its not that running even 150 is all that hard, he says, but you only get one chance per match once you start running balls to get to 150. With only a few matches per tournement, one doesn't get a whole lot of chances to run 100+ in tournements. He said 150 and outs have been done only 6-7 times in the US Open- Mike had at least two of them (vs Rempe, Zuglan)

With the format they're using at CW's event this year, with round robins and 200 point matches in the later stages, I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of high runs. Maybe even a 200 and out...

Is 186 the all time tourney record for a high run in tournement play? I think Jewett posted that he had hopes someone would break that at the DCC.
 
Thanks for the response everyone. I'm going to take a break from 14.1 for a while. I'm going back to my 1 pocket regimen of practice.

Maybe the "30 and safe guy was Jimmy Caras? I heard Grady say on an accu-stats Mr. Caras won the US open from the 1 loss side = 11 or so matches, and never ran more than 60 some balls. With all those champions he must have played very tight, that is one KILLER accomplishment!

Gerry
 
Yes, you guys are correct on Irving Crane, I had forgetten the name. I imagine that with his defensive skills he would be really a tough opponent on a tight table.

Regards,

Doug
 
The Deacon could run balls too. He wasn't all Mr. Defense. I've got footage of him running 150 in like 20 minutes. Don't think he couldn't run balls. The man played beautiful 9 ball too according to DiLiberto. He just had a weak break shot. Sigel learned by watching Crane shoot pool.
 
Gerry, since you're switching back to the real game, 1-pocket, and you need something to replace the frustration of not hitting the 100, try Allen Hopkins' old trick: break, take ball-in-hand, and see if you can run all 15 in one pocket. Hoppy used to do it for the cash, from what I hear. It's actually good practice for reading the stack, nibbling balls off the stack so you don't get tied up, and combos. Prepare for some severe teeth-gnashing, though.
 
jnav447 said:
Gerry, since you're switching back to the real game, 1-pocket, and you need something to replace the frustration of not hitting the 100, try Allen Hopkins' old trick: break, take ball-in-hand, and see if you can run all 15 in one pocket. ...
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Except when Hopkins shot it, he didn't take ball in hand after the break.
 
Mike Davis said:
The greats did run hundreds regularly. I know quite a few unknown players who did it with some regularity and I hear all the great players used to when 14.1 was the game everyone played. I witnessed Alex Pagulayan in a match a few years ago against T.J., a room owner from Maine. Many of you haven't heard of him I'm sure but he is a good player although never a champion even in his prime. Alex ran twenty something the first game. T.J. ran 100 and out. The 2nd game Alex ran fifty something. T.J. ran 100 and out. The 3rd game Alex ran 80+. Again T.J. ran 100 and out. Quite an impressive display. As for Alex, he still had an alright week as he won the 9-ball event the first weekend, the one pocket and 8-ball events in the middle of the week, the bigger 9-ball event the following weekend, and the cue raffle as well.
Click to expand...

Mike,

I'm sure you're talkin about TJ La Flamme. TJ wasn't a top player but no top player had to like the action either...


Eric
 
Eric. said:
Mike,

TJ wasn't a top player but no top player had to like the action either...


Eric
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Eric,
Here is the absolute beauty of the IPT. There are a BUNCH of guys around the country like TJ. They can play lights out, but have never "pursued the dream" because of the desolate financial situation in professional pool. There is no telling how good these guys are/were/could be because they've never committed themselves to full time pool. I think many will be surprised at some of the names showing up at the top of the IPT heap - they may not all be familiar, and it WON'T be a fluke.
 
Williebetmore said:
Eric,
Here is the absolute beauty of the IPT. There are a BUNCH of guys around the country like TJ. They can play lights out, but have never "pursued the dream" because of the desolate financial situation in professional pool. There is no telling how good these guys are/were/could be because they've never committed themselves to full time pool. I think many will be surprised at some of the names showing up at the top of the IPT heap - they may not all be familiar, and it WON'T be a fluke.
Click to expand...


No argument there!


Eric
 
Hi everyone I'm new here. I think the great ones run 100 easily. The "shrine" at Purdue said that Nick Varner wouldn't leave the student union until he ran 100, every day. Around 17-20 years ago I saw Dallas West put on an exhibition at the old Muddlers in Chicago and he ran over 100 in his second inning (he was redfaced and embarassed when he missed after 20 something balls in his first inning).

Alex
 
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