13mm's makes no sense.
- Thread starter thefonz
- Start date
All I know is anything beyond 12mm wide looks like a telephone pole to me. Someone once let me use their break cue once (was a ________ - hammer) ? It had a 14mm shaft with a phenolic tip. I was glad I only broke with it.
Not gonna comment on the shaft dia/spin argument. I think stroke would have more to play in that regard.
Not gonna comment on the shaft dia/spin argument. I think stroke would have more to play in that regard.
People who are looking for potential resale of a cue generally order a 13mm from me, and the ones that are looking for a player typically order anywhere from 10-12.75mm. Personally, I prefer the 12 with a dime.
Randy,
If I understand you correctly, no matter what size the tip only 3mm of tip contacts the cue ball. Now, does the shape of the tip come into play? If so, does the hardness of the tip become a factor?
I agree with your 'other answer' of hand size. In the 1960's hand size was the factor determining the shaft diameter if you used a closed bridge. There wasn't any talk about more spin with a small diameter shaft. The factor of deflection or squirt (LD shafts) didn't enter into the equation. Taper was a different story, but not a major one.
You have the correct knowledge. You are also correct about tip shape. Too get max tip to ball, round surface works the best. We have all heard about the Nickel or Dime shape.
Tip hardness plays very little difference.
I grew up with 14mm tips. What I like about my 11.75 is the sighting on the cue ball. I am feeling that I am able to be more exact. Now whether that's true or not is in my results of course.
If I were to purchase a new cue, tip size would be important....11.75
Have a great day
randyg
Just like 58" length and 19 oz. have been accepted as a MEDIAN for cues. You can take a cue and size it wherever you want of course but these and 13 mm tips are considered a middle of the road starting point.
I switch shafts on my Mottey depending on the table condition. In a tournament, I'd generally use 1-2 shafts if I changed tables by advancing.
The 3rd shaft is mainly back-up but it's also the heaviest shaft at 4.3 ounces and my cue plays 18.6 ounces with that shaft. I use it when the
cloth is dirty and there's more drag on the cue ball or when the rails don't seem as lively......on clean Simonis 860, I seldom use that shaft and
use one of the other shafts which allow my cue to play lighter. The lightest shaft weighs 3.8 ounces and all of the shafts are original.
The 3rd shaft is mainly back-up but it's also the heaviest shaft at 4.3 ounces and my cue plays 18.6 ounces with that shaft. I use it when the
cloth is dirty and there's more drag on the cue ball or when the rails don't seem as lively......on clean Simonis 860, I seldom use that shaft and
use one of the other shafts which allow my cue to play lighter. The lightest shaft weighs 3.8 ounces and all of the shafts are original.
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spin???
(If size don't matter) I want to see you draw the cue full length of the table with a broom handle.
(If size don't matter) I want to see you draw the cue full length of the table with a broom handle.
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Like Randy already answered (as usual correctly
), your *thoughts* hit the nail. About the tip-hardness.
A softer tip just have *a bit longer* contact with the cueball as the hard tip. A hard tip has caused by this a bit more deflection (just a bit- but it has).
That s why i also recommend a softer tip to beginners all the time. Because it is more forgiving.
And the shaft has to feel right for the *player*. And here comes the size of the hand into the game
What do you guys mean by a soft tip and larger diameter are "more forgiving"? If you are saying that they provide asmaller margin of error, making it easier to make a shot, then it would seem logical that every pro in the world would use them to increase their shot making percentage. I think the only thing that a soft tip will do for you is make it less likely to miscue because of the contact time with the cueball. I also think that relative to compression of a tip, the contact surface area, except for probably a break shot, is bigger with a soft tip, which is the reason you should expect fewer miscues. Other than that, I think the hand size/comfort plays a big part in what people like to play with, but in terms of flipping cues, I think anything under 12.75 reduces the number of potential buyers. I like the order with 3 shafts idea. one to your personal preferences and the other two at or very close to 13mm for future marketing.
Hi Scott;
when i used the words *more forgiving* it was about to prevent you to *scratch* by giving *much english*. Also if you have a very very stiff shaft, a softer tip makes the *shaft* a bit more forgiving. A softer tip generally is a bit more forgiving if you go out of the center of the cueball.
And of course the thoughts about marketing is right. If you have in mind, to resale a cue, you should always have an original shaft *like new*.
Like Randy already answered (as usual correctly
About the tip-hardness.
A softer tip just have *a bit longer* contact with the cueball as the hard tip. A hard tip has caused by this a bit more deflection (just a bit- but it has).
That s why i also recommend a softer tip to beginners all the time. Because it is more forgiving.
And the shaft has to feel right for the *player*. And here comes the size of the hand into the game
C'mon Ratta =) There is more to tip dwell and response than just hard and soft... I thought I sent you some Ki-Techs to try... IF not let me know and they will go out asap... I think you have enough students for me to write off 1 set.....
Chris
I played with 11.5-11.75mm before I bought a Sugartree
Now 12.75 is all I really want. Eric really knows how to make small MM shaft guys enjoy fuller sized shafts. His taper is awesome.
In my opinion if your buying a cue as an investment you should not be playing with it, at least not much, so go with the 13mm. If your buying it to use as a regular shooter, or personal playing cue, pick the size that you prefer to play with and don't worry about resale values.
Im just having some fun because I find it impossible to not have the last word. I am not the bigger man when there exists the possibility that I might get some kind of enjoyment. So I went in with a good old "yo momma" joke in trade for the snark.
Thanks for the comment, makes perfect sense. I have a friend that recently got ahold of a snooker cue with ea 9.5mm tip on it and he let me shoot with it. It actually felt like I was reaching a point of diminishing returns where Cue Ball control were concerned and tip size with regard to american pool balls and 9 foot tables. Still it was even easier to spin the ball than it is with my 11.75mm Z-shaft. Not my cup of tea, but good a experience.
Regards,
Lesh
Seems like I read somewhere that the Miz used a 14mm shaft.
I have played with everything from 11.25 to 13, and I never felt there was much of an advantage (for myself) between small vs. large diameter. I used to feel that I could draw the ball more with a sub 12mm shaft, but I have since figured out that if I ever need to draw the ball 20 feet, I'm playing the game wrong.
I do think this is a highly personal thing, though. My game is tremendously sensitive to shaft diameter, and it takes me a couple of months (playing 4 or 5 hours a week) to fully adjust to a new shaft. I recently had my spare shaft turned down to match my main shaft. It is very close, perhaps within .1 or .2 mm, but I still can't use the shafts interchangeably. If I try to load a ball up with side spin, I'll drive it right into the rail with the slightly larger shaft. There's nothing wrong with the shaft, it just has slightly more deflection than my normal player - enough so that it can make me go from dead punch to missing every spin shot by a half inch. It's the same for me when I put a new tip on; I'll be totally lost for the first 10-20 hours.
Re: shaft diameter, my approach is to simply find something that is comfortable in my hand (in all the different bridges I use), and adapt to it.
Aaron
I have played with everything from 11.25 to 13, and I never felt there was much of an advantage (for myself) between small vs. large diameter. I used to feel that I could draw the ball more with a sub 12mm shaft, but I have since figured out that if I ever need to draw the ball 20 feet, I'm playing the game wrong.
I do think this is a highly personal thing, though. My game is tremendously sensitive to shaft diameter, and it takes me a couple of months (playing 4 or 5 hours a week) to fully adjust to a new shaft. I recently had my spare shaft turned down to match my main shaft. It is very close, perhaps within .1 or .2 mm, but I still can't use the shafts interchangeably. If I try to load a ball up with side spin, I'll drive it right into the rail with the slightly larger shaft. There's nothing wrong with the shaft, it just has slightly more deflection than my normal player - enough so that it can make me go from dead punch to missing every spin shot by a half inch. It's the same for me when I put a new tip on; I'll be totally lost for the first 10-20 hours.
Re: shaft diameter, my approach is to simply find something that is comfortable in my hand (in all the different bridges I use), and adapt to it.
Aaron
Allota wood
Saw a couple Mizerak Buskas, they both were sixty inch cues, no story as to how they were acquired by the reliable owner of em, tho an employee took both cues and quit work, probably around 1979.
Saw a couple Mizerak Buskas, they both were sixty inch cues, no story as to how they were acquired by the reliable owner of em, tho an employee took both cues and quit work, probably around 1979.