13mm's makes no sense.

[Blue Hog ridr]

I had a custom sneaky made a while back. I had an extra shaft made.

One is a 12.50 and the other 12. I know that if I was to try and sell it, that those diameters would not be desirable to most but I didn't have it made to sell in the future. I had it made to my liking to play with.

I usually play with any diameter shaft from a Pred Z, 11.75 up to a 12.50.

I started with a small diameter shaft, that cue was stolen in a B & E. I got a cue with a 13mm from a pawn shop. I started working my way down to a smaller tip again until I found the one that I liked.

The shafts that I got with my schons are well under 13mm. I don't know why I would feel the need to buy a cue with a 13mm shaft only to take it down to what my preference is anyway.

If I were to buy a used cue, I would be happy with anything from 12.75 all the way down to 11.75.

Funny but now when I put a 13mm in my hand, it feels like a telephone pole. And really, there is not a huge difference between a 13 and a 12.75.

Basically, if you're happy with the butt of the cue, one can always gets shafts with a diameter that you like later.

I have always figured that your shaft, diameter, taper, ferrule material and tip is a large percentage of what you like most in a cue.
Maybe I am wrong but that is what makes me feel the most comfortable.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I think that the cue value doesn't have to suffer as long as the seller is willing to be patient.
However, when the seller becomes impatient, what do they do.....price drop bumps & more than once.
The seller is the one that gets less than they want......why does this happen, not referring to being impatient.

How about this.....if you break down the popularity of cue shafts by ranking, there's a lot more players that
prefer shafts 12.5mm & larger than 12.5mm & smaller. And if you continued that down to 12.25mm, 12.0mm, etc.,
the percentage of players shrinks. If you own a cue with shafts that appeal to a small percentage of the pool players,
even though the cue is ideally matched for you, it's not going to attract much interest quickly. You're going to have
to be patient until that right person comes along or else drop the price to get your sale.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong but that's how the market works. A Richard Black cue selling for $3,000 that has
two original, straight shafts 11.75mm & 12.00mm will take a lot longer than the identical cue with12.5mm shafts, or
especially with 12.75 mm - 13mm shafts. The buyer that wants thin shafts will pay full market value and the problem
is there's less of them. It's the buyer that settling for a thinner shaft than they prefer that contributes to the price drop + seller impatience.

Anyway, that's how I see it and of course, most sellers also over-estimate the asking price which also helps cause price drop bumps.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Resale value

If the shaft is under 11.75 mm it is considered next to worthless in less you find the right customer under resale conditions.

New and if it for resale never go under 12.75...................................................

MMike

 

[pdcue]

I love 13mm now that I have a sugartree, IMHO comfort comes more from taper than MM. Plus all this bs of you can get more spin/english with small tip is just retarded...

-Drew

+1

There is a rumor that more spin is imparted by better follow thru.

Dale

 

[Island Drive]

If 13mm is stupid I'm a moron at 13.2

Bill Skinner in Denver plays with Fat thirteens'. Some of his many cues hit sweet, he must have six or eight or more new Kikels. He custom designed and had then made up over the past twenty five years or so. He has that addiction. :thumbup:

 

[pdcue]

This better explains what I was attempting to convey. To me, short of abuse or damage, a cue shouldn't lose it's value after it has been played. Shafts to me are somewhat disposable in nature, and shouldn't have a great impact on cue value. Unless of course they're no good and replacements are unavailable.

Collectable cues after all, are supposed to be functional works of art. I don't think using them should cause devaluation to a great degree.

Well, your re-statement is improving by leaps and bounds.

A few observations.

1. The market is what it is, and what it is, especially the collector market,
is more skewed toward pristine examples. And the high end collectables
typically rarely if ever get played with.

2. If your shafts are disposable in this day and age, you need to shoot
your cue repair person. Retippers divorced 150 grit sandpaper decades ago.

3. You seem to be implying almost no one uses 13mm shafts to actually
play pool with. I would venture that is exactly backwards. Based on the
requests I get 12.9+ - yes, that is exactly what they ask for, to 13.0+
is the preference of 90% of players. Tho, the long term trend is to smaller
shafts, just as it is to lighter cues.

Historical note:

50 - 60 years ago, the typical jointed cue, as they were called in those
days, was 57 inches long, had a 12.5mm shaft, weighed 20 plus oz, with
a fat butt<handle> and a small joint. Bank players tended to prefer even
larger shafts and heavier cues, as did quite a few 14.1 and One Pocket
devotees. 9 Ball was not taken seriously as a game of skill, only a way to
hustle.

Current events note:

I know it's quite popular, but the overwhelming majority of people who
actively play the game of pool, don't pay much attention to AZB, if they
even know of its existence. Also they care about as much about the
Americas Cup as they do the Mosconi Cup.

Dale

 

[Sealegs50]

If 13mm is stupid I'm a moron at 13.2

I also prefer 13.1-13.2 mm. 13 mm is my absolute minimum. Not only that, I prefer standard shafts with ivory ferrules (definitely non-LD). So buying new shafts is not as simple for me. If an owner has their shafts tapered below 13 mm, as a buyer, the cue becomes more expensive because I would need to have at least one new shaft made. But that is true for every cue that will be resold. Balance, weight, colors, wraps, inlays, ivory, price, all limit the market of interested buyers.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Ding, Ding ,Ding, we have a winner.

why not just buy an extra shaft the desired size and save the 13mm for when resale is considered.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Old Josswest routinely came with 13.5 - 14mm shafts. But for some reason of all the cues I buy, they get widdled down to 12mm or less.

If you think that it doesn't matter what size the shafts are for any cue in secondary market you don't know much.

As suggested above, if you want to play less than 13mm shaft I would get another shaft. Then when you sell the cue you have (2) full size shafts.

Ken

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Actually, the last two customs I had done for myself, had three shafts.

One modified to the taper and tip diameter I prefer, the other two shafts left standard by the cue maker.

This way of I do sell the cues, they will come with two unplayed pristine shafts.

How many cues have you heard of that were sold on the basis of having one unplayed shaft? I've heard this for years and have never found it to be true. Most of the cues I've sold have had at least two shafts, both/all of them played with and I've never had someone tell me: "Gee, if one shaft hadn't been played with, I'd buy it but since they've both/all been played with, I'll pass."

 

[vasilios]

If 13mm is stupid I'm a moron at 13.2

13.3 Myself - love the drive ability




bill

 

[Lesh]

I could put English on a ball with a 16mm tip as well, just not as easily.
So, I formally apologize for saying I can put MORE junk on the ball.... I mean to say is that it is indeed EASIER....... FOR ME to do so with a smaller diameter tip. For other players that are so far advanced from my piddly insignificant skill level. they can get English on the ball simply by staring at the CB indignantly.... such is their power and awesomeness at the table. I worship all of you that have such power....

:::::ickpickpickpickpickpickpickpickpickpick:::::::

Love,

Lesh

 

[HawaiianEye]

I love 13mm now that I have a sugartree, IMHO comfort comes more from taper than MM. Plus all this bs of you can get more spin/english with small tip is just retarded...

-Drew

I agree 100%. I always played with 14mm tips...custom ordered from the cue makers.

 

[cuesblues]

Bill Skinner in Denver plays with Fat thirteens'. Some of his many cues hit sweet, he must have six or eight or more new Kikels. He custom designed and had then made up over the past twenty five years or so. He has that addiction. :thumbup:

According to Bill, those shafts weigh 5-oz, and they are they last of Dave's super dense shaftwood.
I have Bill's old Ernie Martinez cue from 1993, and the shafts weigh 4.6 oz.
Bill refers to most shafts as "balsa wood", and I guess Henry Granis had something to do with Bill's preference for front weighted cues.

 

[Ralph Kramden]

I prefer a 13mm tip on a pro taper shaft as it feels the same throughout the stroke.

13mm tips on a straight taper shaft feel thick, but 12.5mm straight tapers are okay.
Snooker cues use the smaller diameter tips but usually have a straight taper shaft.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

5 oz

According to Bill, those shafts weigh 5-oz, and they are they last of Dave's super dense shaftwood.
I have Bill's old Ernie Martinez cue from 1993, and the shafts weigh 4.6 oz.
Bill refers to most shafts as "balsa wood", and I guess Henry Granis had something to do with Bill's preference for front weighted cues.

I have never heard of a 5oz shaft. 4oz shaft is heavy and they are some what rare.
MMike

 

[pdcue]

I could put English on a ball with a 16mm tip as well, just not as easily.
So, I formally apologize for saying I can put MORE junk on the ball.... I mean to say is that it is indeed EASIER....... FOR ME to do so with a smaller diameter tip. For other players that are so far advanced from my piddly insignificant skill level. they can get English on the ball simply by staring at the CB indignantly.... such is their power and awesomeness at the table. I worship all of you that have such power....



Love,

Lesh

So, a quick review - a smaller tip - by itself, does not affect spin,
not more spin, easier spin, spiny-er spin.

It also doesn't enable more accurate cueing of the cue ball.

Where is Iron Mike when we need him?

Dale

 

[Lesh]

So, a quick review - a smaller tip - by itself, does not affect spin,
not more spin, easier spin, spiny-er spin.

It also doesn't enable more accurate cueing of the cue ball.

Where is Iron Mike when we need him?

Dale

It is my contention that one may impart MORE spin with LESS effort with a smaller diameter tip.

So... it is implied, all things being finite, yes I do think that I can apply more spin to a cue ball with a smaller diameter tip. Less effort = more yield while maintaining optimal velocity... staying in your accuracy comfort zone.

Hit too hard and it affects your accuracy. A Smaller diameter tip makes sense to me to have greater mobility with the cue ball while not spearing the dang thing with a fatter tip.

Swing for the fences my friend.

Lesh

 

[pdcue]

It is my contention that one may impart MORE spin with LESS effort with a smaller diameter tip.

So... it is implied, all things being finite, yes I do think that I can apply more spin to a cue ball with a smaller diameter tip. Less effort = more yield while maintaining optimal velocity... staying in your accuracy comfort zone.

Hit too hard and it affects your accuracy. A Smaller diameter tip makes sense to me to have greater mobility with the cue ball while not spearing the dang thing with a fatter tip.

Swing for the fences my friend.

Lesh

Ok. We understood the first fourteen times what you think.

Any and all difference is only in your mind.

Dale(mindfull of differences)

 

[flyvirginiaguy]

If 13mm is stupid I'm a moron at 13.2

Yes, I use 13.2 as well. And I have no problems with spin etc...

I also know a few players who used 13.5mm

It is more about comfort in the bridge hand, than it is one of spin imo.