If you can't get more than 9 balls, I'd suggest you spend some time developing solid fundamentals. It's one thing to make the right shot selection, but knowledge is useless if you can't execute the shots. Your game will improve naturally.
14.1 straight pool for pathetic noobs
- Thread starter jonnyyyl
- Start date
If you can't get more than 9 balls, I'd suggest you spend some time developing solid fundamentals. It's one thing to make the right shot selection, but knowledge is useless if you can't execute the shots. Your game will improve naturally.
I would like to think that I have no major serious problems with my technique, as I can run out in 8 ball and 9 ball in practice. I play snooker regularly too, and got my technique from there.
I think its losing focus when I'm always thinking about position, and sometimes the mindset, I get nervous as this is new to me. But I'll get back to basics to make sure the fundamentals are right.
I shall take this advice to heart, and play around with clearing 15 balls in one go, as well as the 5 ball set up practice. Sounds like a great start.
I have in fact been to the 14.1 section, but it seems to be full of other (well experienced) player's practice runs, and I can't find any information/advice for absolute beginners.
The impression I'm getting is that practice + hit around will somehow improve, but I'm looking for advice of how people slowly gradually improved over time (ie, what were they like when they started off, and what signifcant learning outcomes were there?), as opposed to just watching clips.
Hey,
consider this your invite: http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61
we'd love to have you hand out in our little sub-forum, plenty to learn over there and we are all welcome to help out !!!
-Steve
consider this your invite: http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61
we'd love to have you hand out in our little sub-forum, plenty to learn over there and we are all welcome to help out !!!
-Steve
do a search on steve lipsky, and black jack sapolis, they provide great info on diagrams in situations, safeties that come up in actual matches, what to do, how to run particular racks, etc...those are the two that come to mind,oh...bob jewett is another one that you can do a search on
Straight Pool requires a lot of study to play consistent which is why people have suggested watching videos and listening to commentary. So it is more than just knocking the balls around until you run 100.
For me, I've obtained more consistency through improving my mechanics firstly. No matter how good we get, our fundamentals could always use work. It's essentially how you stop missing the easy ones you should be making. Also by improving patterns, cluster management and insurance balls. Before learning those things I relied primarily on my shotmaking to get me through the racks. And I did put up some good numbers, but I also had more days where I'd get stuck without a shot and feel I was having bad luck. Truth is, you can control your luck with this game with solid shot selection. The other issue with just relying on shotmaking, you can only pot them from the lampshades for so long, everyone misses hard shots eventually. So my point is simply, fundamentals aside, your biggest improvements will often come from effectively implementing new theory into your game making for better shot selection.
I can't really speak to my early beginnings in the game, I really started playing straight pool before I knew there was a game called straight pool. My first instinct when getting an opportunity to play by myself was to pocket balls in any order, so I had my first 15 ball run before I started playing 14.1. All improvements were generally due to increasingly more solid mechanics and it has only been in the last year or so that I've decided to really learn how to play straight pool, properly.
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Watching good players was what did it for me, to get a general idea what this game is all about. I learned how to play position (in any game), how to use a good break ball, and so on. Watch Niel's 130: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZYaex9CDaU
As my game and fundamentals improved over time, I also gained more experience and learned what works for me and what doesn't. In 14.1 I see the table as a puzzle and my job is to find the easiest way to solve that puzzle. Phil Capelle's book helped a lot.
If you think your fundamentals are fine and you want to run more balls in 14.1:
Master the stop shot, stop-follow shot and stop-draw shot. That is, after the cueball makes contact with the objectball it will travel just a couple of inches back or forward. You will need this a lot.
When you get to the table, identify your break ball early, and don't touch it.
Identify a key ball (and a key to the key ball) that allows you to play easy position for the break ball, and don't touch it.
Deal with problem balls and clusters early, the longer you wait to break up a cluster, the more difficult it will get. Find good "secondary break balls" and find a way to get position on them.
When breaking up clusters, look for an insurance ball, that you will most likely have position on even if you get stuck to the balls.
Don't shoot too hard when breaking up small clusters, you don't want the balls to spread all over the table without control, you just want to seperate them so they all have a path to a pocket.
When no balls are touching and every ball has a path to a pocket, don't try to move them any more, unless you have no other choice. Look for an easy way to get position on problem balls that block other balls or only have one pocket.
When you find yourself playing three rail positions or extreme draw-shot-type positions, you probably chose the wrong pattern or you made a terrible positional mistake before.
In order to do all this, you need to go around the table often and look at the situation from every angle. Don't just shoot the next ball because it looks convenient to you. It might be a good key ball for your break ball or a good secondary break ball.
There is more, obviously, but you should be able to run more than one rack.
effect that he's sorry, but you're hitting the ball too hard.
Ahh, I had been looking for that quote but I thought it was Robert Byrnes.
I need to get a copy of the George Fels book.
I can sympathize with the nine ball runner. I have been sitting on 29 for about 35 years now. I think my main problem is plain and simple shot making. What I call the bread and butter shots. The shots one must not miss if one wants to make higher runs.
I highly recommend Dave Sapolis evaluations.
Dave Nelson
Ahh, I had been looking for that quote but I thought it was Robert Byrnes.
I need to get a copy of the George Fels book.
I can sympathize with the nine ball runner. I have been sitting on 29 for about 35 years now. I think my main problem is plain and simple shot making. What I call the bread and butter shots. The shots one must not miss if one wants to make higher runs.
I highly recommend Dave Sapolis evaluations.
Dave Nelson
I would speculate that most players who consistently run 9 balls are more likely to have deficiencies in position play and pattern recognition than they are in fundamentals.
Patterns will pop out at you eventually, but in general when you go into balls be sure you have a safety valve to shoot at after opening the balls.
Think of racks as frames and break them down into bite sized chunks sort of like chess. The beginning, the middle game and end game. Try to see the last 3 or 4 balls early that will lead you to your next breakshot. That group of 5 balls is your end game. Your beginning game has you making 2 or 3 balls and in the process opening the remaining clusters, the middle game is taking off 4 or so balls in a manner to set up for that end game sequence that you already saw.
For me at least this gives me a mission and a focus rather than just shooting off balls till I shoot myself into a corner.
I know it has been mentioned, but if you really want to become a student of the game, arm yourself with some good reading material. Go for the best books you can find. George Fels' Mastering Pool is excellent for a player at your stage. He discusses the need to leave the safety valve shots as well as anyone. Phil Cappelle's Play Your Best Straight Pool is very good, but can be hard to find. Even harder to find are the Johnny Holiday series of books. They cover basic plays that are 14.1 oriented, but are valuable shots for all games. I think the first one is called Position Play for Hi-Runs, the second is the Encyclopedia of Pocket Billiards and the last one is Continuous Hi-Runs. Rare books, but some of the best written for 14.1, even for beginners.
I have Position Play for High Runs. Haven't heard of the other two. Also have everything else you mentioned. I have an autographed copy of Mastering Pool that George sent me after I wrote to him care of the National Billiard News inquiring about the book before it was published. One of the best books on beginning Straight Pool, though he does cover other games too.
Babe Cranfield's book, The Straight Pool Bible is good also.
All advice taken all to the heart.
Gave your advice a good practice. and a consistent 13-15 runs have been achieved, and gave each shot full attention
Like you, watched tons of 14.1 videos, including the link. One impression I get is that the balls, including cue ball, rarely go beyond the mid pockets, except for the occasional one. Why is that and how should I plan my shot in such a case?
Quick question: so say if I stop at 12 and there's 3 remaining balls. I pot another one, leaving 2 balls, does my run start again from 1? or am i supposed to start over again by re-racking everything??
The harder you hit the breakshots the more balls will travel up table. If you chip the balls out of the rack you'll be playing primarily in the bottom four pockets but that requires a lot of control. For the most part try to get those balls out early as you have more options for easy positional paths. They're not really a problem unless you leave it to end of the rack consistently.
Are you saying that if you miss at 12, do you continue with your run starting over again with the remaining three balls on the table? Most enthusiasts will say re-rack and start over. Personally, I like to keep going. It means you will always be working on setting up for break shots. Lets say for example you're having a heck of a time getting through a single rack during a 2 hour practice session and only ran two or three full racks. That means you only really practiced your end patterns two or three times in a couple of hours. Of course, you can always dedicate time to specifically practicing this, but you need to spend a lot of time implementing this into an actual game scenario in order to make it second nature.
I can second a vote for Johnny Holiday's "Position Play for Hi-Runs" It was a nice addition to my pool & billiards library.
I Have never heard of these...Can someone enlighten me ? maybe put up a post in the 14.1 forum about them, it might strike up a good conversation !
thanks
-Steve
Steve, Position Play for High Runs describes the application of a diamond system for position play that was used and/or developed by the author. Lots of illustrations and explanations of the system.
http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-billiards-position-play-hi-runs/dp/B0006XJT44/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1318910369&sr=8-4
Two of the books were for sale here on AZ back in August.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=66853
Here are the Holiday Books, if you can find them.
Another very very invaluable and virtually little known publication is Hal Mix's Pocket Billiard Secrets. This book easily rates in the top 10 ever on instruction. Again, if you can find one.
Another very very invaluable and virtually little known publication is Hal Mix's Pocket Billiard Secrets. This book easily rates in the top 10 ever on instruction. Again, if you can find one.
sorry man. was typing with when i was on the phone with the girlfriend lol
yes, as in when i miss at 12.
glad that my message came across in the end.
so say if i loosend the cluster/pack, and 2 balls traveled up the table, i have to get rid of them first?
i was looking at ThePoliteSniper's link as well as other people's videos. both low and high runs. they get rid of those balls in later stages...