$2,000.00 Reward For stolen Cognoscenti Cue.. Please Read!

[Williebetmore]

So, please don't tell me that dealers are the problem. .

Addict-man,
Just an additional clarification; I have never said "dealers are the problem". I have just said they are part of the problem (the size of that part has not been discussed by me; just that they bear some responsibility if they are in possession of stolen merchandise).

They are also the part of the problem that could take some steps to reduce theft - it's a bit harder to have this discussion over on The CueThieves Forum - those guys really let you have it if you try to dissuade them from their "hobby."

 

[Mr. Wilson]

As a dealer I try to get my cues direct from the source whenever possible. But cues changed hands, 1, 5, 10, 100 times, even if a cuemaker made a code for the cue, and you checked it this is what would happen...

Hello, Bill, this is Joe you know this cue.. I8SOUP4BRKFAST..

Yeah, I made that cue for Chef Campbell in 98'...

Oh ok.. got his number..

JV

Joe, if the cue was hot and the owner of the stolen cue *did* contact the maker putting the word out that this high end cue grew legs......it would make tracing it back to it's rightful owner much easier.

My POV isn't so much as an advocate for buyers or sellers and much as t is for the owner of the cue having a tool to help recover their property in just such an emergency.

If you bought a cue that was ID'd and notified the maker that you are now the current owner of his work, he could pass that info on should it be required.

Not a cure, but certainly a tool.

 

[classiccues]

Joe, if the cue was hot and the owner of the stolen cue *did* contact the maker putting the word out that this high end cue grew legs......it would make tracing it back to it's rightful owner much easier.

My POV isn't so much as an advocate for buyers or sellers and much as t is for the owner of the cue having a tool to help recover their property in just such an emergency.

If you bought a cue that was ID'd and notified the maker that you are now the current owner of his work, he could pass that info on should it be required.

Not a cure, but certainly a tool.

Wilson,
I agree and I think most times if a "custom" cue was stolen it would make recovery more easy. I don't think calling Viking and reporting a v-17 stolen will do much though.

Like I said, I have put alot of thought into the system. But where do you put the ID on the cue to show a number, do you provide paperwork, a credit card sized registration paper, oh man the logistics are the kick in the pants. You know anything off the cue will get lost. Joint caps would be a good place, but again, they aren't a part of the cue. So maybe inside under the bumper? The cuemakers that number them now, Tad, Gina etc.. they have a leg up and could just use their own numbering system, but make it centralized. We are thinking password protected logins and only being able to modify your own registration. A sale would require both participants to be members, and then both would need to "report" the transaction for it to register. Like I said, we have thought about it.

JV

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Joe, I'm thinking of new cues and maybe RFID chip built into the the cue in a manner that would make the chip impossible to tamper with ( meaning it would destroy the cue. )

The chip needs nothing more than to be "read only" ans the cue maker can keep a registration log. If the cue's owner were to report that it was stolen, it would forever be known and eventually traceable ( hopefully ).

Strictly in the electronic age



P.S. the id number would be irrelevant until ( unless ) the cue were ever stolen. No need for you or I to know what it is.

 

[cuenut]

I agree with many of the comments made on both sides. I am not a dealer, but as can be seen in many of my previous posts, I seem to always have used cues to sell or trade. Some of the best deals I have ever made in purchasing a cue were at pawn shops. Do I believe that some may have been stolen? Yes. Does that mean I will stop buying cues from pawnshops? Absolutely not. I have over the course of the last 10 years or so, purchased three cues that I, after the fact, found out had suspicious lineage, and later found that two were stolen. I attempted to find the rightful owner, but was unsuccessful in one attempt, and the other never returned any of my emails or attempts to confirm.

I would have gladly returned the cues for the cost I had into them. I know this will start some debate. When the pawnshop puts up something for sale, it normally has to stay in "lockdown" for 90 days for the owner to file a police report, etc. After that period, if the pawn ticket is not redeemed, the items is legally the pawnshop's. At that point they can do whatever they want with it. Most pawnshops, unless there is a familiar custom cuemaker in the area, don't know much of the value of a custom cue, so they price them according to how they compare to a production cue they do know about. I have purchased a Schick level 2 cue for $97.00, just for one example. I would be more than happy to meet with the original owner along with the police and the pawnshop owner to discuss a resolution to any such issue, as I would if someone came up to me and simply stated that a cue of mine is their's.

 

[AuntyDan]

I also understand my views are in the minority around here. I don't expect many will agree.

Oh come on, don't be so hard on yourself WBM. After all, it's not like you've comitted some really unforgivable sin like telling people off for watching copyrighted Accustats video for free on YouTube ;-)

 

[TellsItLikeItIs]

The chip needs nothing more than to be "read only" ans the cue maker can keep a registration log. If the cue's owner were to report that it was stolen, it would forever be known and eventually traceable ( hopefully ).

I wonder how many would think, or even bother to report a stolen (custom) to the maker. I estimate very few.

I helped recover one of my cues for a customer several years ago after a certain party called to ask what it was worth. I contacted the original owner, gave them the info I had from caller ID and he was able to buy the cue back (for 5% of what it sold for originally btw). I was not aware that the cue had been stolen.

Point being, I believe most custom makers can identify their work without the aid of a chip. In the years I have been making cues I have had only one person report one that "grew legs" and that was only during conversation about me making his new one for him.

 

[WilleeCue]

Willee, I admire your position, it's just not realistic. We move alot of cues, there are now over 20-30 dealers of all sizes and I am sure none of them can even try to do what you're implying be done. Buyers, whether they are dealers, collectors, end users, whoever just need to trust their instincts, an be as careful as possible. If you get a 5k Mottey for 250.00 at a pool room you need to be wary.

JV

Huh?
Was I involved in this somewhere?

(the real) WILLEE

 

[Bazooka Tooth]

Willee by your logic half of Ebay is stolen goods...I know bad example on my part because Ebay can be quite the shady place to buy something, but do you happen to use Ebay personally?

even to buy new stuff? new stuff can be stolen too you know...

Im just saying, I think you are alone on your views here


Edit:

oops I didnt mean Willee, sorry sir, I mean Willie...too close of names and I lost track of who I was trying to respond to...I had to read a lot to recap on what happened as I have been absent from this forum for months

 

[Williebetmore]

Willee ....do you happen to use Ebay personally?

even to buy new stuff? new stuff can be stolen too you know...

Im just saying, I think you are alone on your views here

Zook,
No, I've never purchased something from e-bay that I can recall. I don't as a general rule purchase anything used (but I appreciate that not all have that luxury).

I've had enough feedback so far to suggest that many agree (but few wish to be a target here; I however, don't really mind....after being in breakup's sights, this is a very small nuisance indeed). I would still guess I am in the minority though .

I will point out that I am NOT some crusader, NOR have I suggested any measures (draconian or otherwise) to fix the situation as some have mistakenly said. All I wanted to point out was that the situation exists, and that I had no sympathy for someone who purchased stolen merchandise. Calls for reform did not come from me (though I am certainly impressed by those who wish to change things - all I can change is my own behavior). It's very interesting to see the responses so far.

 

[Bazooka Tooth]

I don't know what to say, I mean Im not going to try to change anyone's opinion because I will think how I want and as will you and everyone else...

but the bottom line is that he got his money technically stolen from him too(Rick), and was thieved...

perhaps you dont feel bad for that fact, but the total picture is that a reward was offered and it was not given.

Where I feel bad for Rick is that he lost money first of all, while doing nothing initially wrong(IMO) and then I believe there was a mess with the cops...

It's just a messed up situation, he got thieved by a woman who he still helped regardless of the fact that he bought a stolen cue and who had something thieved from...

So if you were to make a score board

Gina = 2 (having her cue back and not rewarding a dime)
Rick = -3


Lost the cue he paid for, helped someone who was not in the least bit grateful and lost the money that he paid for the cue....

I dunno, I don't feel that I am involved at all in this matter, as I am just a standby who did nothing to help Gina get the cue back, and now am glad I didn't...but who followed the situation as close as I could as a member of the forum....bleh...


I ended up typing more than I had planned, but to break it down, there is a new victim, that is all I have to say...feel bad for Rick or not, he is the new victim and Gina is the spoils, you have to at least admit that, and the fact that it has to suck, and it does suck for that matter...

Zook,
No, I've never purchased something from e-bay that I can recall. I don't as a general rule purchase anything used (but I appreciate that not all have that luxury).

I've had enough feedback so far to suggest that many agree (but few wish to be a target here; I however, don't really mind....after being in breakup's sights, this is a very small nuisance indeed). I would still guess I am in the minority though .

I will point out that I am NOT some crusader, NOR have I suggested any measures (draconian or otherwise) to fix the situation as some have mistakenly said. All I wanted to point out was that the situation exists, and that I had no sympathy for someone who purchased stolen merchandise. Calls for reform did not come from me (though I am certainly impressed by those who wish to change things - all I can change is my own behavior). It's very interesting to see the responses so far.

 

[Bazooka Tooth]

I have personally gotten to the point where it is so upsetting that as much as I want Rick to get his money back on the deal, I want Gina to get a BAAAAD case of karma back ten fold even more so....I hope something just terrible happens to her financially mostly, anything but physical harm is fair game I suppose...

The cue being stolen directly from her again and never ever returned would be a money shot....

and no am I in no way saying me or anyone else that I know would be the type of people to do it...

but if it happened, not only would I not be the least bit remorseful, I would laugh demonically and cheer in front of my computer at the news.

 

[Williebetmore]

So if you were to make a score board

Gina = 2 (having her cue back and not rewarding a dime)
Rick = -3


...feel bad for Rick or not, he is the new victim and Gina is the spoils, you have to at least admit that, and the fact that it has to suck, and it does suck for that matter...

BT,
Well, it definitely DOES suck for Rick (I will certainly "admit" that). I've never commented on Gina - it seems beyond discussion that she is a piece of................work.

At least we can find small consolation that Rick is not in jail (possession of stolen merchandise is a crime in this state), and perhaps in the long run will be a cheap lesson for him on the hazards of buying used merchandise (and it sounds like we can agree that there are definite hazards even if we disagree he did nothing wrong). I will again point out that it was VERY admirable for him to step forward once he found out the nature of the cue.

 

[Da Poet]

Aye chihuahua. With all due respect, why does anyone even care about either of these two people anymore?

 

[Bazooka Tooth]

Aye chihuahua. With all due respect, why does anyone even care about either of these two people anymore?

I got back into this thread because it was the last thread that I was active in at the time I took a break from the forums and the thread is still being active...

but all the better I say, hate her for her entire life in the pool world for this, sure it is only one thing that she has done wrong in the pool community(that we know of), but I think its pretty major and MAJORLY shitty thing, and it will always urk me any time I see something about it

 

[JoeyA]

I have personally gotten to the point where it is so upsetting that as much as I want Rick to get his money back on the deal, I want Gina to get a BAAAAD case of karma back ten fold even more so....I hope something just terrible happens to her financially mostly, anything but physical harm is fair game I suppose...

The cue being stolen directly from her again and never ever returned would be a money shot....

and no am I in no way saying me or anyone else that I know would be the type of people to do it...

but if it happened, not only would I not be the least bit remorseful, I would laugh demonically and cheer in front of my computer at the news.

Well Zook,
You could, Every TEN DAYS start a new thread with Gina's first and last name along with her picture, the town she plays pool in, the pool hall she plays in and a brief overview of the story appealing to anyone and everyone to never play pool with her again whether it be in the leagues or any other manner. When she quits pool and tries to sell the cue, appeal to all of the pool players to not purchase it and start a new thread suggesting that GINA give the cue back to Rick for all of the heartache she has caused or just go shoot yourself in the foot.

JoeyA

 

[Bishop]

Well Zook,
You could, Every TEN DAYS start a new thread with Gina's first and last name along with her picture, the town she plays pool in, the pool hall she plays in and a brief overview of the story appealing to anyone and everyone to never play pool with her again whether it be in the leagues or any other manner. When she quits pool and tries to sell the cue, appeal to all of the pool players to not purchase it and start a new thread suggesting that GINA give the cue back to Rick for all of the heartache she has caused or just go shoot yourself in the foot.

JoeyA

That was essentially the plan until a few people here had a problem with posting her personal pic and info. Not that I don't understand their arguement but I was all for exposing her in any fashion.

I know if I ever saw her I'd give her an ear full.

 

[JoeyA]

That was essentially the plan until a few people here had a problem with posting her personal pic and info. Not that I don't understand their arguement but I was all for exposing her in any fashion.

I know if I ever saw her I'd give her an ear full.

Do you know what she looks like? ;-)
JoeyA

 

[Bazooka Tooth]

Well Zook,
You could, Every TEN DAYS start a new thread with Gina's first and last name along with her picture, the town she plays pool in, the pool hall she plays in and a brief overview of the story appealing to anyone and everyone to never play pool with her again whether it be in the leagues or any other manner. When she quits pool and tries to sell the cue, appeal to all of the pool players to not purchase it and start a new thread suggesting that GINA give the cue back to Rick for all of the heartache she has caused or just go shoot yourself in the foot.

JoeyA

lol that would be a good payback, I mean as good as we can do as an online community but I wouldnt want to be the one to do it....Just for the reason I mentioned above though that I had no part in the helping of her getting her cue back and the initial threads meaning...I was just a bystander who chimed in after reading all of the news about it after the fact that the cue was returned...

I mean I really feel that I have no room to get worked up even to the point that I have been about the matter, and if the mods told me to shut up about it I would respect them in that request, but it is just one of those situations that turned out to be so bad and neglected by Gina that it could damn right piss anyone off just from hearing it, because it isnt a "story" if you will, it is something that really happened, and hearing everyone who is close to Rick or who were involved in the tracking of the cue talk makes me feel for them enough that I would do the little that I could do to help....

 

[JoeyA]

lol that would be a good payback, I mean as good as we can do as an online community but I wouldnt want to be the one to do it....Just for the reason I mentioned above though that I had no part in the helping of her getting her cue back and the initial threads meaning...I was just a bystander who chimed in after reading all of the news about it after the fact that the cue was returned...

I mean I really feel that I have no room to get worked up even to the point that I have been about the matter, and if the mods told me to shut up about it I would respect them in that request, but it is just one of those situations that turned out to be so bad and neglected by Gina that it could damn right piss anyone off just from hearing it, because it isnt a "story" if you will, it is something that really happened, and hearing everyone who is close to Rick or who were involved in the tracking of the cue talk makes me feel for them enough that I would do the little that I could do to help....

Rick is the one who has to decide how far he wants to take this. Sometimes, it is better to bite the bullet and accept the pain.
JoeyA