Well, no. If the object ball is on the cushion, it makes almost no difference to the bank angle how hard you hit the ball as long as you don't kiss. Try the shot with the object ball frozen and a full hit.
2 Rail Bank System Question?
- Thread starter Zphix
- Start date
Well, no. If the object ball is on the cushion, it makes almost no difference to the bank angle how hard you hit the ball as long as you don't kiss. Try the shot with the object ball frozen and a full hit.
Ok. The system is less accurate the closer the object ball is to the rail. An object ball froze to the rail is a completely different shot and not considered in tbe diagram I posted.
But yes I see your point. I got a little off topic but this can be used as a two cushion if you extend the side rail.
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For those interested, the video demonstration, along with three instructional articles with examples, can be found here:
Plus System for aiming two-rail kicks off a short rail
A better system for aiming this sort of shot is described here:
How do you find the 1st rail target position in this scenario?
two-rail parallel-line kick shot aiming system
This system, like most, does require adjustment for different angles, speeds, and spins.
Regards,
Dave
If people want visual proof, the effect is clearly demonstrated here:
NV B.95 - Post-rebound spin, angle, and curve for stunned kicks and banks
And all bank and kick shot physics effects are summarized here:
bank and kick shot effects and factors to consider
Enjoy,
Dave
Yo fellas,
I saw a Dr. Dave video on the Plus Diamond system for 2 rail kicks because I've been finding myself needing to 2 rail or 3 rail kick more and more as I play more so I needed to practice them.
Dave outlines the Plus Diamond system, which works as follows:
Shooting at the rail number shifts the kick that many diamonds up table. So, the OB is 3 diamonds away from the CB on the same rail, so aiming through the 3rd number (or 1st diamond on the rail to the right) will send the CB 3 diamonds left on a 2 rail kick.
But, the examples shown in his video only outline shots where the CB and the OB are almost perfectly lined up making it easy to count diamond distances.
How do you use this when the OB and CB are not on the same line, but are diagonal like so:
How do you find the 1st rail target position in this scenario?
The plus 2 is an excellent system which can also be used to calculate the path of the cue ball on follow shots going forward two rails to get position.
I learned it from Dr Dave and Bob Jewett's videos and it improved my game a lot so I would refer to their answers but what I do when the cue/object ball isn't on the rail, which is most of the time, I use my cue to line up the spot on the rail for the cue ball and object ball to calculate the distance between the balls. In the diagram it looks to me like the one rail kick is easier. I'm not sure why you would want to kick two rails in that instance.
bank kick systems
A friend of mine has developed a system and a training tool that you can learn to make that shot.
His name is Dan Pons and the training tool is 3 mirrors that have suction cups on the bottom of the mirrors and they are set up on the rails on the table.
You can see any one , two or three rail kicks or banks in the reflection of the mirror.
I have used his system, and it works perfectly. please understand the tough part of kicks and banks is hitting the cue ball in the same spot and the same speed every single time.
The nice part of this system is you can see the OB in the mirror, and you know exactly were to shoot.
If interested please pm me you phone number and I will get you in touch with Dan Pons.
Dan also invented the bank bandit and here is a video on it, sorry I can not find the video with the mirrors.
PS the bank bandit also works very well and it only takes a short time before you can see these shots in your head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wZU_oN8bOM
Yo fellas,
I saw a Dr. Dave video on the Plus Diamond system for 2 rail kicks because I've been finding myself needing to 2 rail or 3 rail kick more and more as I play more so I needed to practice them.
Dave outlines the Plus Diamond system, which works as follows:
Shooting at the rail number shifts the kick that many diamonds up table. So, the OB is 3 diamonds away from the CB on the same rail, so aiming through the 3rd number (or 1st diamond on the rail to the right) will send the CB 3 diamonds left on a 2 rail kick.
But, the examples shown in his video only outline shots where the CB and the OB are almost perfectly lined up making it easy to count diamond distances.
How do you use this when the OB and CB are not on the same line, but are diagonal like so:
How do you find the 1st rail target position in this scenario?
A friend of mine has developed a system and a training tool that you can learn to make that shot.
His name is Dan Pons and the training tool is 3 mirrors that have suction cups on the bottom of the mirrors and they are set up on the rails on the table.
You can see any one , two or three rail kicks or banks in the reflection of the mirror.
I have used his system, and it works perfectly. please understand the tough part of kicks and banks is hitting the cue ball in the same spot and the same speed every single time.
The nice part of this system is you can see the OB in the mirror, and you know exactly were to shoot.
If interested please pm me you phone number and I will get you in touch with Dan Pons.
Dan also invented the bank bandit and here is a video on it, sorry I can not find the video with the mirrors.
PS the bank bandit also works very well and it only takes a short time before you can see these shots in your head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wZU_oN8bOM
Assuming you are wanting to bank G...here is how I do things on my table - find mid point between G and P, line this mid point up with the opposite pocket I'm shooting at...N and parallel shift over G and this is the line G has to take. It works for me on my table at slow speeds. Anything other than pocket speed and it goes short.
For hard banks I use the same method but instead of picking the mid point I divide the line from pocket to OB into thirds. I move along this lime from the OB until I reach the 1/3 point, from this point I follow all the above steps as though this was the midway point and shoot the bank hard. Depending upon speed of the shot and particular English and cut angle my point along the line changes.
For banks where the OB is frozen to the rail or near frozen I use the same method bur for hard banks I use the midpoint and slow banks I use the 1/3 point. In my head this doesn't make sense, but they tend to drop.
2nd diamond through point 2 on first rail hits .9 on the 2nd rail.
3rd diamond through point 3 on first rail hits 1.6 on the 2nd rail.
4th diamond through point 4 on first rail hits 2.2 on the 2nd rail.
5th diamond through point 5 on first rail hits 2.6 on the 2nd rail.
6th diamond through point 6 on first rail hits 3 on the 2nd rail.
7th diamond through point 7 on first rail hits 3.4 on the 2nd rail.
Combining a few things - I’ve got a pretty good idea where my aim point ends up being.
Using CreeDos diagram , I memorized the 2nd rail hit points (2 through 2 hits .9, 3 through 3 hits 1.6, 4 through 4 hits 2.2), and these 2nd rail points all track to the corner pocket.
I was sitting here for upwards of 10 minutes trying to explain what I do on the table to have it make sense but to no avail...
I check track lines, shift, then use the plus system/SID system to find the number tracks, so in this case it'd be like 2.5 to 27.5 to hit 9.
Some complicated stuff (or so it seems at the moment) in my head.
3rd diamond through point 3 on first rail hits 1.6 on the 2nd rail.
4th diamond through point 4 on first rail hits 2.2 on the 2nd rail.
5th diamond through point 5 on first rail hits 2.6 on the 2nd rail.
6th diamond through point 6 on first rail hits 3 on the 2nd rail.
7th diamond through point 7 on first rail hits 3.4 on the 2nd rail.
Combining a few things - I’ve got a pretty good idea where my aim point ends up being.
Using CreeDos diagram , I memorized the 2nd rail hit points (2 through 2 hits .9, 3 through 3 hits 1.6, 4 through 4 hits 2.2), and these 2nd rail points all track to the corner pocket.
I was sitting here for upwards of 10 minutes trying to explain what I do on the table to have it make sense but to no avail...
I check track lines, shift, then use the plus system/SID system to find the number tracks, so in this case it'd be like 2.5 to 27.5 to hit 9.
Some complicated stuff (or so it seems at the moment) in my head.
Since the angle in is almost never equal to the angle out, especially after the first cushion, I don't see how the mirrors can work unless they are turned slightly to allow for english and follow. Is that what you do?
And also, since you guys are talking about the parallel shift two rail kicking system.
As Bob said, the angles are never the same - the angle off the 2nd rail goes longer than the track to the first rail.
But, you can compensate with English - or simply find the parallel aim point and move it up table slightly.
Most players already know this "trick", but sometimes I find guesstimating the midpoint to be unreliable (especially at longer distances), so I was looking for a more mathematical system.
Thanks everybody,
-Richard
Sent from my X501_USA_Cricket using Tapatalk 2
As Bob said, the angles are never the same - the angle off the 2nd rail goes longer than the track to the first rail.
But, you can compensate with English - or simply find the parallel aim point and move it up table slightly.
Most players already know this "trick", but sometimes I find guesstimating the midpoint to be unreliable (especially at longer distances), so I was looking for a more mathematical system.
Thanks everybody,
-Richard
Sent from my X501_USA_Cricket using Tapatalk 2
Mirror
Hi Bob
This is Dan Pons invention and I cannot speak for Dan and the training tools he has invented.
If you would like to talk with Dan I think I could arrange that, please pm me you PH number and I will pass it on to Dan Pons
Hi Bob
This is Dan Pons invention and I cannot speak for Dan and the training tools he has invented.
If you would like to talk with Dan I think I could arrange that, please pm me you PH number and I will pass it on to Dan Pons
Here ya go. Simple system and it works.
Thank you CSI for the series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmp15cx-B8g&index=24&list=PLdCfnbGD70QXr28bs6NnEYglN5Qf-bPzf
John
Thank you CSI for the series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmp15cx-B8g&index=24&list=PLdCfnbGD70QXr28bs6NnEYglN5Qf-bPzf
John
Dan P.
Registered
Hi Bob, this is Dan Pons and I understand what your saying about angle in and out. Having worked on the mirror system for many years I have tried all kinds of ways to set up and adjust for different tables, cloth, etc. I find that on a good table with cloth that is not brand new you can set up the mirrors right up to the edge of the cushion and not fuss around too much. I can get three mirrors around the end of the table to work together very well. I would love to show you sometime in person how they work. If you want more input I would be glad to talk to you.