2007 US Open 9 Ball

[jay helfert]

I will look forward to seeing you there and hope we make it this year. We missed last year's U.S. Open.

I'll be drinking sparking water. I hope Keith will, too, but one never knows!

JAM

If Keith buys, I'll drink my annual beer with you and him.

 

[JAM]

If Keith buys, I'll drink my annual beer with you and him.

Of course, he'll buy one for you, Jay! Don't forget, we also got a dinner date next time we meet up, though if you know Keith -- and I know you do -- he doesn't eat too much when he's in competition.

JAM

 

[Tom In Cincy]

U. S. Open.. Sunday thru Saturday

The finals will be on Saturday Night this year (just a clarification)

If you've never been to this event, it is well worth the effort to try and attend at least once. You won't regret it. IMO.

The production, convention center, seating, players, venue, hotels and of course the great Q-Masters pool hall after hours action, cannot be compared to any past or present US Open championship event.

The players are very approachable and there is plenty of time inbetween matches to chat and covort with these great players.

Q_Masters is a huge pool hall with a separate tourament room full of tight Diamond and Brunswick tables. At night you could see the best players in the world matching up with all sorts of competitors.
And the food there is well above average for a Pool hall's offering.

 

[moneyplays]

getting paid!!

This is the problem with pool there really is no good sponsorship money that comes in!! So the only way the pool players are going to get paid is if they put something up. Look at poker there was 8000 people that put up the 10k to play in the wsop and they had tournements for a month every day different tournament and the entries were from 1500 to 10k. Poker players got the same expenses as pool players the only difference is there gambling on making a difference. It takes money to make money and until pool players figure that out, there gonna still get paid peanuts in these little tournaments!!!

 

[JAM]

This is the problem with pool there really is no good sponsorship money that comes in!! So the only way the pool players are going to get paid is if they put something up. Look at poker there was 8000 people that put up the 10k to play in the wsop and they had tournements for a month every day different tournament and the entries were from 1500 to 10k. Poker players got the same expenses as pool players the only difference is there gambling on making a difference. It takes money to make money and until pool players figure that out, there gonna still get paid peanuts in these little tournaments!!!

I don't even know how to respond to this!

Pool players have always been the predominant base of monies for tournament payouts via entry fees. Pool industry doesn't pour in a lot of dough into pool tournaments, compared to corporate sponsors pouring in dough to poker tournaments.

Pool players that earn a good living, most of them do so in other pool-related industries. Playing professional pool is a rich man's high. Tournament soldiers today are not living high off the hog, and you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip.

Try going to three and four tournaments each and every month, paying expenses and entry fees, when you must come in first, second, or third place to break even.

Poker has HUGE payouts because there are many more poker players in the world than pool players.

Not everybody can compete in professional pool, even after years and years of practice and experience. It is a different skills set to play pool than poker.

JMHO, FWIW, and you are certainly entitled to yours. Walk in the shoes of one of today's Hall of Famers and see how you like it as far as how rewarding this wonderful world of pocket billiards is. Today's champion is tomorrow's unsung hero. That and a nickel won't buy you a cup of coffee either.

JAM

 

[moneyplays]

I agree with what your saying its just if pool lpayers want to win anything you got put something up or go get sponsors to put you in. I mean who wants to go battle 63 champions and take 3rd place and walk away with 1200. or in a lot of cases a lot less! I t is a joke. And trust me i have all the respect in the world for the hall of famers.

 

[jay helfert]

Of course, he'll buy one for you, Jay! Don't forget, we also got a dinner date next time we meet up, though if you know Keith -- and I know you do -- he doesn't eat too much when he's in competition.

JAM

He eats like a bird and drinks like a fish.

 

[Jerry Forsyth]

For JAM

You made a statement about how large corporations pour money into poker tournaments. That is not the info that I have. When we interviewed Jay Helfert on RunOut Radio he stated that the poker players put up all of the prize fund with their entry fees and that the promoters take a large percentage of that so the players don't even get to win all of their own money back. The monies kicked in by sponsors go to the promoters, not the players. Jay, do I have this right?

 

[crosseyedjoe]

This is the problem with pool there really is no good sponsorship money that comes in!! So the only way the pool players are going to get paid is if they put something up. Look at poker there was 8000 people that put up the 10k to play in the wsop and they had tournements for a month every day different tournament and the entries were from 1500 to 10k. Poker players got the same expenses as pool players the only difference is there gambling on making a difference. It takes money to make money and until pool players figure that out, there gonna still get paid peanuts in these little tournaments!!!

I think it is because by enlarge Poker is gambling and Pool is not. People have a different mindset when it comes to gambling. Like what JAM said, you need a skill set that takes years to develop to be competitive in pool. Relying on "lady luck" will not help you in pool.

Poker has virtual tournaments too for $50 to get a seat in WSOP tournaments. IPT tried to offer those qualifying tournaments but it kinda flopped. Pool really needs an outside help if you want it to have a bigger pay. Just consider what Charlie Williams did to pool in Korea.



P.S. Charlie Williams should be Man of the Year in my opinion just by showing that it can be done aggresively.

 

[dimes33]

to me its all simple math,more players and higher entry fees =larger prize money.i have played both pool and poker for years and its just silly to keep comparing them.poker in nature promotes itself;come and play where there really is no favorite and really anyone can win.its kind of hard to say that and mean it playing pool.yea they have 8k players at the wsop but do you really want to fade a pool tournament with 8k people i dont.simple;more added money from somewhere or higher entry fees and if you can think of a 3rd way,well then you may have the answer to this great unsovled mystery of how to get tournament payouts higher.

 

[JAM]

You made a statement about how large corporations pour money into poker tournaments. That is not the info that I have. When we interviewed Jay Helfert on RunOut Radio he stated that the poker players put up all of the prize fund with their entry fees and that the promoters take a large percentage of that so the players don't even get to win all of their own money back. The monies kicked in by sponsors go to the promoters, not the players. Jay, do I have this right?

Jay is talking about the poker players playing poker online.

Take poker as a whole, the events that are on TV. TV is where the poker money is at because of ADVERTISEMENT. Corporate America wants to be seen and sell, sell, sell. That's how they make their money.

This is basically what the IPT wanted to do. Kevin Trudeau's vision was, hopefully, to invest monies into pool, and give it a boost. It didn't work because there weren't too many investors from Corporate America into the IPT. The window was opened, but nobody took notice. After multi-million-dollar tournaments, barely a few words on ESPN about the event.

I don't blame Kevin Trudeau either, like some IPT naysayers do. Let's face it. Pool is a tough sell, and to date, nobody seems to have been able to make it a "hit" on American TV. Look at the recent pool game shows, i.e., Ball Breakers, that have come and gone.

This is what I wrote about the recent WSOP poker tournament held at Rio: What struck me, Jay, is the similarities between pool and poker. Of course, there is no comparison when it comes to money payouts, but I'm talking about what the industry members talk about.

Did you catch the interview with Phil Helmuth? The ESPN guy was reaming him with verbal nasties, labeling him a clown, and Phil Helmuth stood his ground and said he believed the poker needed more personality, that the audience wants to be entertained. He stated he liked the 22-year-old Kahn from Poughkeepsie and thought he'd be an asset to poker. Helmuth thinks that himself, Mike the Mouth, and others are exactly what poker needs to grow as a sport. Sound familiar?

Then they spoke about getting Corporate America involved more in poker, how this year, the new sponsors came forth, Hershey's candies, Planter's peanuts, Hertz Rental Cars, Miller and Coors beer, and these are just the NEWest sponsors.

Poker has already got Corporate America. That is who pays for them to be on TV, which makes it popular. Poker industry members fly in the coat tails of Corporate America when it comes to monies invested in the poker sport. They rely on Hershey's candies, Planter's peanuts, Hertz, beer companies, et cetera, to pay for advertising, which pays for the first-class TV broadcasts we see all over the cable channels/

Pool has got, well, the pool industry to pay for TV and advertising both. The WPBA seems to get the majority of the pool industry monies from pool industry sponsors. Why is that? Does sex sell pool, like so many on this forum believe? Or, are women just smarter and are more business-like? I tend to think it's the latter than the former.

Poker is popular today because of TV, not from those entry fees that the poker players paid for the online tournaments. TV opens the window and allows more interested parties in from mainstream America, and when mass people are interested, Corporate America gets interested real quick.

Watching pool on TV today is sometimes like watching a B movie, B movie music and all! It's embarassing.

JAM

 

[fanthom]

Pool has got, well, the pool industry to pay for TV and advertising both. The WPBA seems to get the majority of the pool industry monies from pool industry sponsors. Why is that? Does sex sell pool, like so many on this forum believe? Or, are women just smarter and are more business-like? I tend to think it's the latter than the former.
JAM

The sad (or perhaps happy) answer to that is YES. Pool has the aura of being a man's game. To an average person (TV viewer), who has little knowledge of pool, seeing well dressed business-like, sometimes HOT, women break and run balls is intriguing, appealing and interesting since it is supposedly a man's game. Since pool is a rather technical game, I don't think the average viewer pays attention to the intricacies of the game. For them, what matter are the balls disappearing in the pockets which equates to skill. They most likely are not even aware of the size of the pockets, the type of cloth, room climate, table speed etc. that are important factors in the game. TV audiences are primarily visual and are there only for entertainment reasons. That's the bottomline. And for some reason, the WPBA, has the knack for it. Besides, none of the men pro players are passable Hollywood material.

 

[JAM]

The sad (or perhaps happy) answer to that is YES. Pool has the aura of being a man's game. To an average person (TV viewer), who has little knowledge of pool, seeing well dressed business-like, sometimes HOT, women break and run balls is intriguing, appealing and interesting since it is supposedly a man's game. Since pool is a rather technical game, I don't think the average viewer pays attention to the intricacies of the game. For them, what matter are the balls disappearing in the pockets which equates to skill. They most likely are not even aware of the size of the pockets, the type of cloth, room climate, table speed etc. that are important factors in the game. TV audiences are primarily visual and are there only for entertainment reasons. That's the bottomline. And for some reason, the WPBA, has the knack for it.

I wonder why poker didn't have to get scantily dressed women to play poker games in order for it to gain in popularity.

ENTERTAINMENT sells poker. People like to see the HUMAN EMOTION, which is what pool needs, not Buckingham Guard personalities dressed up like penguins doing the robot.

Besides, none of the men pro players are passable Hollywood material.

I know. It's like a nightmare. It just keeps getting worse and worse, doesn't it?

JAM

 

[StevenPWaldon]

Perhaps a rarity, but I agree. Hotel, travel, food, living expenses over a week are a KILLER to pool players. Even in the big tournaments, you've got to make the top 17 to break even.

For those with jobs, in addition to the expense of the tournament it also means lost wages/time. I'm sure some may be able to take vacation times, but not constantly throughout the year.

With a field of 256 and Double-Elim, this tournament takes a while. Nights in a hotel add up FAST. As much as I'd like to see the spectacle of a $1,000,000+ tournament, I don't know how feasible it is. If it were to happen, I'd prefer it to be something other than the US Open, which has run for decades. I wouldn't want to see an entry fee be the end of the longest-running pro tournament.

As it is, with the $500 fee I'm happy to see the greats battle it out: Pagulayan, Reyes, Strickland, Bustamante, Morris, Deuel, Immonen, Souquet (ok, and McCready). As a spectator and consumer, I'm happy. I pay my BCN subscription, watch all the footage that I can and enjoy every second of it. Regardless of the entry fee, it draws to top players from the world. The prestige factor and excitement is a big draw.

I guess I will be the lone minority on this thread, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

Playing pool is a rich man's high. $500 entry may seem like peanuts to some, but remember, this event begins on a Sunday (players meeting) and ends the next Sunday. That is an 8-day stay in beautiful Chesapeake Beach, Virginia, with a cost of about $3,000 for the entire trip for my camp.

I love the U.S. Open tournament. It's in a beautiful part of the country, and the people in Virginia have that Southern charm, which makes it very welcoming. In 2003, third place paid $10,000. That was a nice chunk of change, coming in third place, but when you add in all the rest of the tournaments a professional tournament solider attends each year, it basically covers expenses for previous events.

I am glad the entry fee if $500 and hope it stays that way. I am pretty sure that most of the actual pool players who do compete in this event feel that same way. In sum, it ain't the entry fee that is so brutal to attend pool events. It is the associate expenses. Week-long tournaments aren't cheap! JMHO, FWIW!



JAM

 

[jay helfert]

You made a statement about how large corporations pour money into poker tournaments. That is not the info that I have. When we interviewed Jay Helfert on RunOut Radio he stated that the poker players put up all of the prize fund with their entry fees and that the promoters take a large percentage of that so the players don't even get to win all of their own money back. The monies kicked in by sponsors go to the promoters, not the players. Jay, do I have this right?

Basically correct. We are playing for our own money, less the "juice".

 

[jay helfert]

Perhaps a rarity, but I agree. Hotel, travel, food, living expenses over a week are a KILLER to pool players. Even in the big tournaments, you've got to make the top 17 to break even.

For those with jobs, in addition to the expense of the tournament it also means lost wages/time. I'm sure some may be able to take vacation times, but not constantly throughout the year.

With a field of 256 and Double-Elim, this tournament takes a while. Nights in a hotel add up FAST. As much as I'd like to see the spectacle of a $1,000,000+ tournament, I don't know how feasible it is. If it were to happen, I'd prefer it to be something other than the US Open, which has run for decades. I wouldn't want to see an entry fee be the end of the longest-running pro tournament.

As it is, with the $500 fee I'm happy to see the greats battle it out: Pagulayan, Reyes, Strickland, Bustamante, Morris, Deuel, Immonen, Souquet (ok, and McCready). As a spectator and consumer, I'm happy. I pay my BCN subscription, watch all the footage that I can and enjoy every second of it. Regardless of the entry fee, it draws to top players from the world. The prestige factor and excitement is a big draw.

I can play in a Poker tournament right here in Los Angeles with a purse of over half a million. It costs me $1,000 to enter but there is no other expense. No hotel, no airfare. And it's over in two days.

The drawbacks. Only 10% of the field make the money. And there is a huge luck factor. Typically to make the money in a major tournament, a good player must win three or four 50-50 hands. For example they have to win with A,K against Q,Q and then they have to win with Q,Q against A,K. That's where the luck comes in. It's unavoidable that you will have hands like this that you must win to stay alive.

 

[Russ Chewning]

JAM,

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say what i think kicked poker off on it's big run lately.. It was the same thing that kicked it off for pool in the 80's.

A movie.

Rounders came out in 1998. I had played poker before, but had no clue that there was any real skill involved. Rounders made me think, "Holy crap! It's not just luck, it's something I can LEARN!"

Rounders got a lot of people into poker, and the poker industry started seeing sales of books, clay chips, and other poker item start really taking off. Some of the big online poker sites came out around this time, whether it was because of Rounders, or they saw a boost from Rounders, it comes down to the same thing. People started playing poker online, and those sites were making hundreds of millions per year.

The popularity of the online poker sites probably drew the attention of the television networks, who then just had to come up with the right format to make poker watchable. This has actually been in place for a long time, as poker broadcasts have been showing downcards for a long time. The technology just makes it a little prettier now.

The poker sites starting hosting supersatellites, which allowed everyone to pony up $50 and try to get into the WSOP main event, and THIS probably did more to boost poker than ANYTHING else. Supersatellites take time and money to run in a brick and mortar casino, but online, the software takes care of everything, as long as the servers and software are solid...

So, once the player-paid entry fees grew the payouts to many millions of dollars, this made poker even MORE attractive to television and corporate sponsors..

I think, all in all, poker always had the capability to draw this kind of money, but the poker industry was the recipient of some awesome timing where they had a few things happen in a very short time frame:

1. An awesome poker movie came out, with GREAT acting. (Rounders)

2. Poker sites came out allowing everyone to experience the adrenaline rush of having that flush draw hit on the river. (Pokerstars, ParadisePoker, etc..)

3. Those poker sites had the good business sense to hold qualifier tournaments for the WSOP..

And really, from there, it was almost ASSURED that television and corporate sponsors would sit up and take notice.

Unfortunately, pool does have the drawback that you cannot possibly gain the skills to compete with champions with 6 months.. In poker, some brilliant players can, and HAVE done just that.

Poker is a game for everyone.. Pool is a game for those that were gifted with excellent hand/eye coordination, and a huge will to win. In today's "video-game, gotta have it now and don't wanna work for it" society, pool never had a chance.

Russ

 

[jay helfert]

JAM,

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say what i think kicked poker off on it's big run lately.. It was the same thing that kicked it off for pool in the 80's.

A movie.

Rounders came out in 1998. I had played poker before, but had no clue that there was any real skill involved. Rounders made me think, "Holy crap! It's not just luck, it's something I can LEARN!"

Rounders got a lot of people into poker, and the poker industry started seeing sales of books, clay chips, and other poker item start really taking off. Some of the big online poker sites came out around this time, whether it was because of Rounders, or they saw a boost from Rounders, it comes down to the same thing. People started playing poker online, and those sites were making hundreds of millions per year.

The popularity of the online poker sites probably drew the attention of the television networks, who then just had to come up with the right format to make poker watchable. This has actually been in place for a long time, as poker broadcasts have been showing downcards for a long time. The technology just makes it a little prettier now.

The poker sites starting hosting supersatellites, which allowed everyone to pony up $50 and try to get into the WSOP main event, and THIS probably did more to boost poker than ANYTHING else. Supersatellites take time and money to run in a brick and mortar casino, but online, the software takes care of everything, as long as the servers and software are solid...

So, once the player-paid entry fees grew the payouts to many millions of dollars, this made poker even MORE attractive to television and corporate sponsors..

I think, all in all, poker always had the capability to draw this kind of money, but the poker industry was the recipient of some awesome timing where they had a few things happen in a very short time frame:

1. An awesome poker movie came out, with GREAT acting. (Rounders)

2. Poker sites came out allowing everyone to experience the adrenaline rush of having that flush draw hit on the river. (Pokerstars, ParadisePoker, etc..)

3. Those poker sites had the good business sense to hold qualifier tournaments for the WSOP..

And really, from there, it was almost ASSURED that television and corporate sponsors would sit up and take notice.

Unfortunately, pool does have the drawback that you cannot possibly gain the skills to compete with champions with 6 months.. In poker, some brilliant players can, and HAVE done just that.

Poker is a game for everyone.. Pool is a game for those that were gifted with excellent hand/eye coordination, and a huge will to win. In today's "video-game, gotta have it now and don't wanna work for it" society, pool never had a chance.

Russ

Actually Russ, it all started when they figured out how to show the hole cards on TV. That made it infinitely more compelling. It's like the viewer knows a secret that both players don't. The players are guessing and we at home are not. Thats what makes it so much fun. And the big money helps too. Pretty cool to see someone win a million in cash.