2009 Cuemaker's Round Table Discussion

[rayjay]

This is up for discussion again in the cuemaker's section and I thought I'd post it here for those that don't go there very often. I've listened to it several times, it's 16 of the finest cuemakers in the world talking about cuemaking for over an hour and a half. Topics include playability vs. design, low deflection shafts, costs, best playing cues, and much more. This is a really informative discussion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdg36QHYJa8

 

[jburkm002]

Kinda sounds like people are paying a lot of money for bling and a name. They did kinda agree it needs to play well or at least shouldn't be falling apart. Didn't sound like there was any real technology into playability. They agreed the best cue you can have is. The one you have been playing with forever.

 

[danieldakota53]

Should have been called the Wayne show with guests including other makers. The discussion was very one or 3 sided I thought. With not much information at all shared. And with Bill at that table and only allowed a few words towards the end, was very disappointing to me.

 

[boradriver]

I found it kind of interesting that atleast the cuemakers that were speaking seemed to be so against low deflection type shafts.

I wonder if some of these makers find it to an insult to put another shaft on their cues.

I would also wonder if any of them feel different about low deflection shafts now.

 

[Ken_4fun]

I found it kind of interesting that atleast the cuemakers that were speaking seemed to be so against low deflection type shafts.

I wonder if some of these makers find it to an insult to put another shaft on their cues.

I would also wonder if any of them feel different about low deflection shafts now.

I think low deflection shafts are a product of good marketing. I have used predator shaft in the past and wasnt impressed.

Many are and thats okay. Everyone doesnt drive Chevys either.

Maybe the cuemakers just know better.

Ken

 

[hang-the-9]

I wished some more of the cuemakers had input, it seems only about half were doing all the talking.

I really wanted to hear Eric Crisps thoughts on how he puts together his cues, his wood selection as he is known for using and being able to find top quality wood.

 

[boradriver]

I think low deflection shafts are a product of good marketing. I have used predator shaft in the past and wasnt impressed.

Many are and thats okay. Everyone doesnt drive Chevys either.

Maybe the cuemakers just know better.

Ken

Predator shafts aren't for everyone I understand stand that.

It is just a matter of personal preference on what each person likes in the feel of a cue.

Just like I don't like the play of cues with metal joints, 5/16x18 or 14 pins, or linen wraps.

But I don't feel the cuemakers know best when it comes to what works for me in a cue. They are all experts in building cues and the artwork that goes into them.

 

[macguy]

Predator shafts aren't for everyone I understand stand that.

It is just a matter of personal preference on what each person likes in the feel of a cue.

Just like I don't like the play of cues with metal joints, 5/16x18 or 14 pins, or linen wraps.

But I don't feel the cue makers know best when it comes to what works for me in a cue. They are all experts in building cues and the artwork that goes into them.

I don't think the jury is out anymore. LD shafts ARE better to play with then a shaft with more deflection. I can't play with an LD shaft because I have been playing pool for over 50 years, it is just do different to me.

"BUT", for any new player trying to learn the game I would not hesitate to recommending an LD shaft for them, in fact I would encourage it. I think it would be a great advantage to them in learning the game and to a degree shorten the learning curve. For the experienced player LD shafts are certainly worth giving a try as well and see what happens.

Why would anyone not want something that can make the game easier to play and learn.
For those cue makers to be making some of the comments they made you have to wonder what they are thinking. It makes everything else they say suspect when they make such self serving comments that just are not honest.

 

[jburkm002]

I couldn't believe they had a semi debate on playability. Seriously. Someone is going to pay $5000 for artwork on a cue and it doesn't matter if it plays damn good. I don't think its artwork as much as its craftsmanship. Oh wow you came up with yet another cue that has four points. What artistic vision. I think its more craftsmanship and would love to hear what separates each maker from the other on a plain jane cue with no design work. How and why they design their cues for a specific hit? Why you can less deflection with their cue? Why you can get more English with less effort with their cue? I don't think they would go there. In the end, most butts are just alike with bling added. I like my bling and I am not knocking that but it's bling.

 

[macguy]

I couldn't believe they had a semi debate on playability. Seriously. Someone is going to pay $5000 for artwork on a cue and it doesn't matter if it plays damn good. I don't think its artwork as much as its craftsmanship. Oh wow you came up with yet another cue that has four points. What artistic vision. I think its more craftsmanship and would love to hear what separates each maker from the other on a plain jane cue with no design work. How and why they design their cues for a specific hit? Why you can less deflection with their cue? Why you can get more English with less effort with their cue? I don't think they would go there. In the end, most butts are just alike with bling added. I like my bling and I am not knocking that but it's bling.

The truth is, their bread and butter are lower end cues. The market for $5000.00 + cues is really really small. I used to go to quite a few tournaments as well as BCA show every year and it was funny sometimes. You would begin to recognize their stock. They would have cues they have been taking to shows for years still unsold. Mean time they would sell out $600. and $700. cues on the first day.

That is really where the money is for most of them, even the guys with the big names. For the big name guys low end to them may be like $1500.00 to $2000. and people will pay it. When they start throwing around numbers like $25000. they are few and far between.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I couldn't believe they had a semi debate on playability. Seriously. Someone is going to pay $5000 for artwork on a cue and it doesn't matter if it plays damn good. I don't think its artwork as much as its craftsmanship. Oh wow you came up with yet another cue that has four points. What artistic vision. I think its more craftsmanship and would love to hear what separates each maker from the other on a plain jane cue with no design work. How and why they design their cues for a specific hit? Why you can less deflection with their cue? Why you can get more English with less effort with their cue? I don't think they would go there. In the end, most butts are just alike with bling added. I like my bling and I am not knocking that but it's bling.

I agree. I wanted to hear more about why "they" thought "their" cue played better than anybody else's cue.

When I think of a "custom" cue, I think of a cue that has been "built" specifically for the person ordering the cue...that person's playing style. Instead of the cue maker asking the "buyer" what kind of "bling" they want, I think they should "interview" the buyer on what kind of "results" they expected from the cue.

If the buyer says, "I want everybody to notice it"...then go for bling.

If the buyer says, "I want it to enhance my game", then the maker should know what the different characteristics of a cue have on how it plays. For example: 1) this type of taper does "this", 2) this type of tip does "this", 3), this type of ferrule does "this", etc., etc., etc.

A "custom" cue should be "customized" to the player...not just a 19 ounce cue with the maker's preset taper and a 13mm tip (to satisfy "most" potential buyers, should the cue be put back on the secondary market.

 

[Ken_4fun]

The truth is, their bread and butter are lower end cues. The market for $5000.00 + cues is really really small. I used to go to quite a few tournaments as well as BCA show every year and it was funny sometimes. You would begin to recognize their stock. They would have cues they have been taking to shows for years still unsold. Mean time they would sell out $600. and $700. cues on the first day.

That is really where the money is for most of them, even the guys with the big names. For the big name guys low end to them may be like $1500.00 to $2000. and people will pay it. When they start throwing around numbers like $25000. they are few and far between.

Agreed.

Starting cuemakers want to get the $2K and up, which 99.99% cannot command. I recommend to my friends who are starting cuemakers is to hit the $500 and less market. That includes converted bar cues, and plain jane cues. Target league players that might be going for their first "custom" cue verses a production cue.

Develop a following and then try higher end. The other thing that I smile about is several want to do complicated cues or build a veneered cue. If they want to build a veneered cue, get a blank from Prather or others....

Ken