3-ball and 14:1 - how do they help you?

Blackball75

Blackball75

Blackball75
Silver Member
Hey All,

I keep seeing these two games touted again and again as those which will likely improve your game most if you play/practise them.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

I) Why does 3-ball improve your all-round billiards game?
i) What is the best way to play it? (e.g. against an opponent or practise alone, call-pocket etc.)

II) Why does 14:1 improve your all-round billiards game?
ii) What is the best way to play it? (e.g. against an opponent or practise alone, call-pocket etc.)

Thanks for feedback :)
 
14.1 emphasizes certain skills that don't come up as much in 9b, 10b, or even 8b.
I'll just list some...

· Planned cluster breaks where you really pay attention to where the CB is hitting, what the outcome will probably be, and which balls might make good insurance balls that guarantee you a shot after the break.

· Short, precise position using 0 or 1 rails. Especially short nip draw or stun follow shots where you just slide the CB around a few inches to get just right on a sequence of balls that are almost a series of stop shots. Generally move the CB less, but you also are expected to place it with much greater accuracy. If you go a little short or a little far there's a lot of traffic, which means your life gets a lot harder.

· Planning a sequence of balls that leaves little to chance and minimizes risk (and usually minimizes cue ball travel). You'll start to see end patterns in 8b better for example and learn which balls you shouldn't automatically shoot early because they'd be more useful at the end of a runout.

· Training your ability to make tough shots under pressure. At first 14.1 looks like a series of easy short shots. And it is when played well. But after break shots or after a tough roll, a player is often forced to make some long hairy cuts or weird under-the-rack backwards cuts into the far corners. Or awkward cuts into the side. And every break shot has some pressure, you must learn to make those back cuts without fear and plow through the rack.

· Shooting jacked up over other balls, or even over the entire rack. Comes up a lot in 14.1. Forces you to focus on stroking straight while treetopped. Trains you to avoid fouling in all-balls-fouls situations.

· Short combos come up a lot in 14.1. You're supposed to play shape on them or break them up but sometimes you're forced to shoot 'em anyway. They turn up a lot along the foot rail or to the sides of the racking area.

· Safeties - it's tough you must hide the guy from every ball on the table. So you learn to recognize opportunities to freeze the CB on an object ball, denying access to virtually the entire table. You also learn how to really thin a ball so that it barely moves while whitey travels several feet to get a rail.

· Grinding - you learn how to ride out a long game that seems to go forever, and long runs that keep you chaired for what feels like hours. 14.1 demands you keep high focus for a very long time if you want to run a hundred or more without a miss.
 
I agree with everything Creedo says in his post. IMO 14.1 is THE game to help with precise position, pattern play, you name it. Also, when you play it well and keep adding to your high run it gives you a feeling that can never be described. You can actually numerically see yourself getting better....

Playing 14.1 by yourself can be very helpful, but only if you can keep the focus up, which is why I love to practice with someone else who knows the game as well and isn't just going to go for the off the wall shots. Also, 14.1 is a call-pocket game.

3-Ball as a game to help you get better is just untrue, it's usually a gambling game played by your regular players for fun. They had to be talking about 3 cushion which is absolutely beneficial for kicks and banks.

Just my opinion,

Ashley Nandrasy
 
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3 ball

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say what 3 ball can actually help in one's game:

Controlled multi-rail lag speed is a valuable tool. If one pays attention, one can almost lag the corner balls toward the pockets to have opportunities for 3's and 2's while maintaining some control of having a shot on the head ball.
Playing this way "can" help a ton toward controlled caroms for the win especially since this gambling game can really favor a tonnage player.

Just my $0.02
 
CreeDo said:
14.1 emphasizes certain skills that don't come up as much in 9b, 10b, or even 8b.
I'll just list some...

· Planned cluster breaks where you really pay attention to where the CB is hitting, what the outcome will probably be, and which balls might make good insurance balls that guarantee you a shot after the break.

· Short, precise position using 0 or 1 rails. Especially short nip draw or stun follow shots where you just slide the CB around a few inches to get just right on a sequence of balls that are almost a series of stop shots. Generally move the CB less, but you also are expected to place it with much greater accuracy. If you go a little short or a little far there's a lot of traffic, which means your life gets a lot harder.

· Planning a sequence of balls that leaves little to chance and minimizes risk (and usually minimizes cue ball travel). You'll start to see end patterns in 8b better for example and learn which balls you shouldn't automatically shoot early because they'd be more useful at the end of a runout.

· Training your ability to make tough shots under pressure. At first 14.1 looks like a series of easy short shots. And it is when played well. But after break shots or after a tough roll, a player is often forced to make some long hairy cuts or weird under-the-rack backwards cuts into the far corners. Or awkward cuts into the side. And every break shot has some pressure, you must learn to make those back cuts without fear and plow through the rack.

· Shooting jacked up over other balls, or even over the entire rack. Comes up a lot in 14.1. Forces you to focus on stroking straight while treetopped. Trains you to avoid fouling in all-balls-fouls situations.

· Short combos come up a lot in 14.1. You're supposed to play shape on them or break them up but sometimes you're forced to shoot 'em anyway. They turn up a lot along the foot rail or to the sides of the racking area.

· Safeties - it's tough you must hide the guy from every ball on the table. So you learn to recognize opportunities to freeze the CB on an object ball, denying access to virtually the entire table. You also learn how to really thin a ball so that it barely moves while whitey travels several feet to get a rail.

· Grinding - you learn how to ride out a long game that seems to go forever, and long runs that keep you chaired for what feels like hours. 14.1 demands you keep high focus for a very long time if you want to run a hundred or more without a miss.
Click to expand...

Creedo, your posts are always so informative. I've only been a member here a short time and already you've helped me so much. Thank you.

Question:
Wouldn't you agree though that a certain level of experience is required to benefit from 14.1? In my case, for example, i'm a beginner who averages 3-4 ball runs. I've tried 14.1, as you suggested in my other threads, but find myself very frustrated because the balls are so clustered. I end up sinking one ball and left with no shot so I have to use a shot to break up the cluster left by my poor break. Then I realize I may as well just play equal offense or bowlliards.

Whenever I can break a rack wide open (as you do in Bowlliards) I can sometimes run all 10 balls but doing it in congested traffic like 14.1 drives me crazy because I can't make a shot. Any opinions on this?

To the OP: I don't mean to hijack your thread. I thought this might tie in to what you were asking.
 
pmata814 said:
Whenever I can break a rack wide open (as you do in Bowlliards) I can sometimes run all 10 balls but doing it in congested traffic like 14.1 drives me crazy because I can't make a shot. Any opinions on this?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the nice words ^^

That's a fair point, and dealing with clusters is sort of advanced for someone at your level. It sounds like you can sink open shots but controlling the cue ball is still tough. There are ways to practice that keep that 14.1 flavor and maybe help with the clusters.

1. Set up a really perfect break shot that blasts the balls wide open. The object ball is near the center of the table, a little closer to one side pocket or the other. The CB is close to it and angled... let's say 45 degrees. Cut the shot into the side at warp speed with no english, trying to send whitey into the rack. If you get lucky you splatter the rack wide open almost as well as with an 8 ball break. (In real 14.1 you'd try to control the cue ball of course but for now just crush 'em).

2. Remove the bottom row from the rack so you're only blasting into 9 balls instead of all 14.

3. Roll out some balls near the racking area (keep everything on the lower half of the table) and pretend it's the last 4 or 5 balls of a 14.1 rack. Pick one ball as a break ball, and try to run the rest without touching that break ball. If you can actually get on the last ball then rack 'em and try to sink it and break 'em. Just make it your goal to do knock at least one makeable shot free after sinking your break ball. If you can do that, you're getting the feel for straight pool.
 
DogLoop said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say what 3 ball can actually help in one's game:

Controlled multi-rail lag speed is a valuable tool. If one pays attention, one can almost lag the corner balls toward the pockets to have opportunities for 3's and 2's while maintaining some control of having a shot on the head ball.
Playing this way "can" help a ton toward controlled caroms for the win especially since this gambling game can really favor a tonnage player.

Just my $0.02
Click to expand...

we play 3 ball with all 3 in a line.
 
3 ball does not help any more than hitting balls until you can control the rock better. And there is nothing more annoying than having only 3 balls to pocket...well 14.1. j/k.....no I'm not.
 
Straight Pool will help all the other games you play. 3-ball is a tavern game, at least as I know it, and depends a lot on luck. And we racked the 3 in a pyramid.
 
I agree 100% on the benefits of 14.1! I also think 3 ball is a good practice game. It teaches you cue ball control and position play... I'm sorry but if you can't make 3 in a row consistently, you're not going to win many games of any type (8, 9, 10, banks, 14.1 etc).

With 3 ball you can look ahead 3 shots basically! I'm not saying it's a really good practice game, but it's still practice!

Zim
 
14.1 is a great game and it is a core, elemental game. But I don't think it's a great game for helping you in 9ball if that is your goal. It's patterns are different and you play the game on half a table. It is a game of logic with many solutions.

9ball forces you to play a particular ball, requires table-length shooting/positioning skills, and thus has it's own skill requirements. Understand that I am NOT saying 14.1 is not a good game to improve your overall game, I am saying it is not a good game to improve your 9ball skill.

3ball is better for your 9ball game because it simplifies the table in groups of 3, rather than confusing you with a full nine balls, and you practice your long ball shooting/positioning. After mastering 3ball, move to 6ball and then 7ball.

14.1 is good for 8ball. 1 pocket is a unique game unto it's own, imo
 
For many years the majority of the top players in the United States came out of the Northeast, where Straight Pool was the dominant game. They learned this game first! When you become proficient at 14.1, you have learned how to control the cue ball! Anyone can learn how to make balls (given a year or two of practice), but what separates the men from the boys is how well you control the cue ball.

Straight Pool is all about cue ball control! Many times in very tight spaces, and even bumping balls for position. You also learn the very important combination and billiard shots. You learn how balls interact with each other in clusters. All this and more will give you a strong background to play any other pool game.

The greatest all around players of my generation were Sigel, Mizerak, Varner, Hopkins and Rempe (Ray Martin was a tad older). All these guys were great Straight Pool players, and could play all games well, including One Pocket. You may not realize this but in One Pocket cue ball control is essential. That's Efren's long suit, playing position in tight spaces.
 
I have to say that 3 ball can help your game. When I was trying to get my kids started, the way I would teach them to plan ahead was to put 3 balls out and get them to work backwards from the last ball and shoot the pattern out.
 
I think he his refering to shoting 3 ball paterns. This helps in planning how to run a rack by thinking 3 balls ahead.
 
Hi Guys,

Many thanks for your detailed replies.

I did indeed mean 3-ball, and not 3-cushion carom:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-ball

This article does give a small mention (which I didn't see before) of why 3-ball can be useful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-ball#As_practice_for_other_games

I'm an 8-ball player so as a practise drill this might well be useful.

Also as an 8-ball player, I really like the idea of 14:1, but I don't know of anyone around here who likes to play it.
So I guess I'll have to practise it alone, which is much less fun and harder to keep focused/motivated.
 
jay helfert said:
For many years the majority of the top players in the United States came out of the Northeast, where Straight Pool was the dominant game. They learned this game first! When you become proficient at 14.1, you have learned how to control the cue ball! Anyone can learn how to make balls (given a year or two of practice), but what separates the men from the boys is how well you control the cue ball.

Straight Pool is all about cue ball control! Many times in very tight spaces, and even bumping balls for position. You also learn the very important combination and billiard shots. You learn how balls interact with each other in clusters. All this and more will give you a strong background to play any other pool game.

The greatest all around players of my generation were Sigel, Mizerak, Varner, Hopkins and Rempe (Ray Martin was a tad older). All these guys were great Straight Pool players, and could play all games well, including One Pocket. You may not realize this but in One Pocket cue ball control is essential. That's Efren's long suit, playing position in tight spaces.
Click to expand...

Jay, I'm certainly not going to deny 14.1's importance in position play. It is in and of itself, a great learning game as well. And I believe 14.1 is a harder game to master. But position play in 14.1 is quite different than in 9ball.

Of two equal 9ball players, the one who has better knowledge of 14.1, will ultimately win, but 14.1 isn't a requirement to play great 9ball. The players you mentioned are hof'ers who play all games, but for the average joe, you've seen many 9ballers who play excellent 9ball and sucky 14.1
 
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