3 HERCEK Cues For Sale

classiccues said:
I don't think competition is a bad thing. Thats why we list links to competitor sites on our own site. But let me tell you, if I was to air out every problem I ever had with people, or like some people, perceived problems, AZ would need a new server.


Ok.. I would like you to show me the difference. You go to a show, and there is a cue, you ask how much, the guy says 2800. You say either ok, or no thanks. Now if the guy says it was a South West and Efren used it to win the 200* whatever and he didn't, thats misrepresentation.



Again.. its a buy price vs a sell price. If I sell a SW for 2500 and a different guy brings it back to me 5 minutes later, am I supposed to give him 2500 for it? Maybe I should give him 2700, hell sounds like you like charity, maybe you should bring me a cue so I can lose some money. I wonder how many times you thought you should lose money on a cue. So now Murphy should have given Don, 3k for the cue just to make YOU happy. I have to say this is the most humorous debate I have had yet. I guess we all need to lose money to make you happy. There was absolutely nothing done incorrectly, all this because someone said your price was high. At least I get a good laugh. I know this might be foreign to you, but in business they call it buy low sell hi. It works, trust me. The real kicker to me here, is the fact they took in a mutt for a purebred and you're mad at them.


This is true and I don't think anyone dealing in these types of cues thinks dealers are out to lose money.

Let me say this, you can go into any booth and get this same scenario. Bring a SW into a dealers booth, he will offer you on average 1500-1800 for the cue depending on woods, etc.. But he will have one for sale for 2500. So whats the problem? This is an every day occurance. The realistic scenario is someone is going to offer him 2200-2000 for the SW and thats proabably what he will get. Thats why he must offer you the lower price on your cue. This is all you ran into, and you are trying to make it a bigger deal than it is, because a dealer said he thought your prices were to high. Nice.

Joe
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I actually asked some guys at work today about a similar situation as the example I cited with the cueaddicts deal.

Here is what I said, and only what I said:

"So I get an item from an expert which he represents as having a value of $1000."

"I then trade that item to somebody else."

"That person then takes the item back to the expert in the same condition and is told that the item only has a value of $500."

Then I simply asked, "Is that dishonest?" Everybody said yes.

I then asked if it was honest when the expert is looking at taking back the item he instead says, "That item is worth $1000, but I'll only give you $500 because I'm short of cash, etc."

They all said yes to that as well.

If you can't see the difference in that I don't know what to tell you. I think most reasonable people do see the difference. I also think that most reasonable people when given an option would rather deal with someone who deals in a manner like the second scenario.

(Name)
 
UGOTDA7 said:
FYI, Don wanted the Phillippi along with everybody else there. If you saw it in person you would want it as well. It really is quite a cue, one of the best designs they have done.)
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And Don didn't take it on trade for the Hercek.. GMAB.

UGOTDA7 said:
I do not work alone, never have. I'm currently in the Army and have been for a number of years. I have commanded units numbering close to 300 soldiers. I think I know a thing or two about group dynamics. I simply believe that one should take responsibility for what one does and says. I have nothing to hide and will not pawn off my shortcomings on others. Too bad some others here don't believe in this simple aspect commonly associated with honest behavior.)
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Quite frankly from this thread you not only don't know group dynamics but have no idea about buying and selling. And I am sure if Sean had quoted you the 2800 he would have. But he didn't and you are off base going after him for calling your cue prices high.

UGOTDA7 said:
By the way, I was checking out your website and saw the Mottey with "Reign Man" in the butt cap. You said it has been refinished by Paul. When was it refinished?
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I was told by the owner it was refinished, by Paul, about 4-8 weeks ago.

Joe
 
UGOTDA7 said:
I actually asked some guys at work today about a similar situation as the example I cited with the cueaddicts deal.

Here is what I said, and only what I said:

"So I get an item from an expert which he represents as having a value of $1000."

"I then trade that item to somebody else."

"That person then takes the item back to the expert in the same condition and is told that the item only has a value of $500."

Then I simply asked, "Is that dishonest?" Everybody said yes.

I then asked if it was honest when the expert is looking at taking back the item he instead says, "That item is worth $1000, but I'll only give you $500 because I'm short of cash, etc."

They all said yes to that as well.

If you can't see the difference in that I don't know what to tell you. I think most reasonable people do see the difference. I also think that most reasonable people when given an option would rather deal with someone who deals in a manner like the second scenario.

(Name)
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You are way out of context. They are not saying that the item is only worth 2000. Its what they said they would buy the cue from him for. What don't you get? The 2800 is just a number, thats it. If Don had come to him and send hey I got this cue whats it "worth" for me to price in my booth, maybe they (the person that sold it) would have said 2800. What if player 1 in that booth, the guy you traded with said hey its a 2800 dollar cue and player 2, Jack didn't agree with that setiment and said it was only worth 2000. Who is right and who's wrong? I know, the guy who said your Hercek price is high is wrong, right?
Ask these same people if they bought a car from a Chevy dealer and flat bedded it around town, sold it to another person, and he then took it back, why wouldn't he get the same money the other guy just paid for it.

Joe
 
classiccues said:
And Don didn't take it on trade for the Hercek.. GMAB.



Quite frankly from this thread you not only don't know group dynamics but have no idea about buying and selling. And I am sure if Sean had quoted you the 2800 he would have. But he didn't and you are off base going after him for calling your cue prices high.



I was told by the owner it was refinished, by Paul, about 4-8 weeks ago.

Joe
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If you have nothing new or substantial to add and just want to belabor the same old stuff over and over and over and over you are free to do so. At this point just about all that can be said to further this discussion has been said.

The issue never has been the price of the cue (which they quoted at $2800) or them saying the price of mine was too high. The issue has been how they misrepresent the facts for very obvious reasons. If that hasn't sunk in yet I don't know what else I can tell you.

However, I do find it quite ironic that they feel the need to post about my cue price being high when they priced one of theirs into the stratosphere.

I never approached Don with that Phillippi as a trade towards the Hercek. Yet again you are talking about circumstances in which you were not involved without knowing the facts. Talking out of your ass seems to be something you enjoy. I hope everybody seeing this factors it in the next time they ask you for some accurate information.

You can continue to say I don't know what I'm doing, you are entitled to your opinion. It is childish to say the least, perhaps I should reply in kind with, "I'm rubber and you're glue, what you say bounces off of me and sticks to you." But it is quite clear that the way you form your opinions should seriously be called into question based on what you have posted here.

Besides, the hundreds of cue sales I have done over the past years with 100% customer satisfaction can't be wrong. I'll take that FACT over your OPINION any day of the week.

You just might want to check things out one more time with the "Reign Man" Mottey YOU are representing on YOUR website. But then again, you think I don't know what I'm doing so feel free to disregard this suggestion as you see fit.

(Name)
 
do you think if i talked out of my ass it would help the itchyness? or maybe i should get someone to blow some smoke up my ass?
 
larrynj1 said:
do you think if i talked out of my ass it would help the itchyness? or maybe i should get someone to blow some smoke up my ass?
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I think it would then transform from an "itch" to an "irritable itch". Not recommended.
 
Devil's Advocate

If someone is selling a cue worth 1500.00 and is only asking 500.00; is it your duty to inform the seller of his error or buy the cue at a good price.
Just can't understand why so much time is being wasted about this. If you don't like the price of a cue just move on until you find it at the price you like.
Like my uncle says when he looks at all my cues "All you got is some firewood until you actually sell one and get the cash"
My 2 cents

Paul

PS I'd be curled up in a corner in catatonic shock if my firewood ever went up
 
UGOTDA7 said:
The issue never has been the price of the cue (which they quoted at $2800) or them saying the price of mine was too high. The issue has been how they misrepresent the facts for very obvious reasons. If that hasn't sunk in yet I don't know what else I can tell you.

However, I do find it quite ironic that they feel the need to post about my cue price being high when they priced one of theirs into the stratosphere.

I never approached Don with that Phillippi as a trade towards the Hercek. Yet again you are talking about circumstances in which you were not involved without knowing the facts. Talking out of your ass seems to be something you enjoy. I hope everybody seeing this factors it in the next time they ask you for some accurate information.

You can continue to say I don't know what I'm doing, you are entitled to your opinion. It is childish to say the least, perhaps I should reply in kind with, "I'm rubber and you're glue, what you say bounces off of me and sticks to you." But it is quite clear that the way you form your opinions should seriously be called into question based on what you have posted here.

Besides, the hundreds of cue sales I have done over the past years with 100% customer satisfaction can't be wrong. I'll take that FACT over your OPINION any day of the week.

You just might want to check things out one more time with the "Reign Man" Mottey YOU are representing on YOUR website. But then again, you think I don't know what I'm doing so feel free to disregard this suggestion as you see fit.

(Name)
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Like me, you are entitled to your opinion and I don't see anything wrong with the 2800 vs the 2000. Regardless, all this was a lame attempt by you to discredit a known dealer for calling a cue price you had high. Any way you spin it, is irrelevent. You had one motive and that was it. People can ask me anything they want, but business is what it is. The fact you cannot tell a buy vs a sell price is amusing based on your 100's of cue deals. The Reign man Mottey is being represented as what it was told to me, if I ever find anything out different, I pull the cue immediately. Plus I won't ever list for that person again. But seeing how you are, I would need to hear it from someone with a clue, and no motive before I did anything.

BTW you didn't approach Don BUT if he wanted the cue like you said he did (see below), you would think he would have made an offer, right? He had a cue you wanted, and you (alledgedly) had a cue he wanted. This isn't talking out of my ass, but common logic. I have a cue you want, and vice versa, we trade. Maybe your just BS'ing like you have been this whole thread.

So now we are to believe you gave away a 4.5-5k Phillipi for a South West that you believed was only a 2100 cue, even though you had recently sold one for 3500 so you say. Boy, and they say I am a salesman.. BTW like much of your over the top BS, I wouldn't have wanted the cue. Trust me on that.

UGOTDA7 said:
FYI, Don wanted the Phillippi along with everybody else there. If you saw it in person you would want it as well. It really is quite a cue, one of the best designs they have done.

More info for you since you obviously need some help, but don't worry, I'm here for you. I sold one almost exactly like it (steel joint instead of ivory) for $3500 about a month prior. And Phillippi sold one very similar for $4500 about a month prior to that. So all of your nonsensical frothing at the mouth about that cue is just that.)
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classiccues said:
Like me, you are entitled to your opinion and I don't see anything wrong with the 2800 vs the 2000. Regardless, all this was a lame attempt by you to discredit a known dealer for calling a cue price you had high. Any way you spin it, is irrelevent. You had one motive and that was it. People can ask me anything they want, but business is what it is. The fact you cannot tell a buy vs a sell price is amusing based on your 100's of cue deals. The Reign man Mottey is being represented as what it was told to me, if I ever find anything out different, I pull the cue immediately. Plus I won't ever list for that person again. But seeing how you are, I would need to hear it from someone with a clue, and no motive before I did anything.

BTW you didn't approach Don BUT if he wanted the cue like you said he did (see below), you would think he would have made an offer, right? He had a cue you wanted, and you (alledgedly) had a cue he wanted. This isn't talking out of my ass, but common logic. I have a cue you want, and vice versa, we trade. Maybe your just BS'ing like you have been this whole thread.

So now we are to believe you gave away a 4.5-5k Phillipi for a South West that you believed was only a 2100 cue, even though you had recently sold one for 3500 so you say. Boy, and they say I am a salesman.. BTW like much of your over the top BS, I wouldn't have wanted the cue. Trust me on that.
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I'm still amazed that you continue to talk about dealings in which you had no part in at all. If you don't know about something you probably should just keep quiet about it. Otherwise you're just losing credibility with each subsequent post. At the very least you're compromising your integrity in an attempt to save some face.

For all of you reading this, please take that into consideration when looking at possibly getting a cue from this guy. This guy is just flat out speaking about things in which he has no knowledge. Is that the kind of person you want to deal with? A guy who talks like he knows the facts, like he has accurate information, but really doesn't. I know I sure don't. There is too much of this kind of thing in cue dealing as it is, perpetuating it is something that should be avoided.

You say I'm the one trying to discredit someone else? Did you forget to take your medication this morning? At a minimum you definitely need to go back and read this thread again from the start.

Who was it that chimed in here first trying to discredit someone else with flat out unverified information? Opinions are one thing, but cueaddicts has yet to verify I'm asking twice (roughly) what a new cue would cost from Joel. Isn't that what their initial post said? I'll give you and them $100 each if they can prove they verified this with Joel prior to that post. Yet they come in here and state this like it is a fact, like they KNOW what Joel would charge for these cues. Simply amazing. Until Joel says otherwise I consider what they said to border on being a blatant lie meant solely to discredit me.

And you know what is really comical? Their initial post was also in reply to someone who has seen how they operate and stated that they were way overpriced. I guess you missed that part as well? It really is funny looking back at it considering how this thread has turned out.

Here, one more time for you, from post number 6, posted by cueaddicts:

"However, this cat's prices are crazy high....roughly double what the Joel charges for the same cue brand new."

So is this a fact or not? Is it true or not? Or is it them just throwing out misinformation like it is factual? This is a pretty simple question, even you can see that.

For their statement to be accurate, Joel would charge $2500 (roughly) for the scrimshaw Blue Book cue that started all of this. Do you agree with what they stated as well? That means he would only charge $1500 for the plain Hercek cue with ivory joint I have. I'll tell you what, if that is the case Joel is going to be bombarded with orders in the near future when people read this because those would be some world-beater deals. Hell, even though I have three of his cues I'll put in an order for another one or two of them if I can get them for those prices.

How about this cue for comparison?

http://www.chalkers.com/id252.htm

I guess their prices are "crazy high" as well? I'm just so amazed they were able to sell that cue. :rolleyes:

(Name)
 
1pRoscoe said:
I suggest the originator of the thread delete it. This is nothing but a school yard pissing contest.
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I concur solely on the basis that there is NO chance that they will either kiss and make up, talk to eathother on the phone/IM, or LET IT GO. i'm telling you...Sock-em-Boppers and whiffle bats.
 
UGOTDA7 said:
I'm still amazed that you continue to talk about dealings in which you had no part in at all. If you don't know about something you probably should just keep quiet about it. Otherwise you're just losing credibility with each subsequent post. At the very least you're compromising your integrity in an attempt to save some face.

For all of you reading this, please take that into consideration when looking at possibly getting a cue from this guy. This guy is just flat out speaking about things in which he has no knowledge. Is that the kind of person you want to deal with? A guy who talks like he knows the facts, like he has accurate information, but really doesn't. I know I sure don't. There is too much of this kind of thing in cue dealing as it is, perpetuating it is something that should be avoided.)
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Hey if you say things that don't add up, like hey I can trade a 5k Phillippi for a 2100 SW and then cry about it, or hey even you would like the cue, or even Don wanted it, or the 10 other things that don't add up, I am going to call you on it. To bad, none of your stories make one iota of sense. There is only why guy who people should be wary of and its going to be the guy who will be answering this post. I don't have to have been there to put 2 and 2 together. Yet, all this over "wahhh he called my price crazy hi".

As far as ending the thread you had the chance to delete your posts and actually delete the whole thread, and you didn't. So your hollow attempts at saying "Oh.. I was going to let it die" are just that.. hollow. Another showing of how "reputable" you are.

Joe (---danced with better
 
Let's see if anyone gets this...

GoEnglish_com_BeatADeadHorse.gif
 
Easy! I went to Google and clicked on "images", did a search for "beat dead horse" and it pulls up all of the images available.

:D
 
classiccues said:
Hey if you say things that don't add up, like hey I can trade a 5k Phillippi for a 2100 SW and then cry about it, or hey even you would like the cue, or even Don wanted it, or the 10 other things that don't add up, I am going to call you on it. To bad, none of your stories make one iota of sense. There is only why guy who people should be wary of and its going to be the guy who will be answering this post. I don't have to have been there to put 2 and 2 together. Yet, all this over "wahhh he called my price crazy hi".

As far as ending the thread you had the chance to delete your posts and actually delete the whole thread, and you didn't. So your hollow attempts at saying "Oh.. I was going to let it die" are just that.. hollow. Another showing of how "reputable" you are.

Joe (---danced with better
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Joe, I don’t know why you persist on showing your ass in public. The bottom line is you don’t know what happened with that deal but you continue to speak about it. I'm really kind of feeling sorry for you at this point.

Just so you can finally have the ALL of the facts surrounding this deal I'm going to outline things from start to finish and why I did what I did. Take it or leave it as you see fit.

I currently use as my playing cue a Gilbert jump/break cue I got as part of a trade deal from Joe Salazar at the last U.S. Open, it only has one shaft and I wanted another one.

This particular Gilbert is a nice looking cue and a lot of people have asked me about it. A fellow pool player asked if I could get him one, I told him I would try to while I was at the Derby. I also wanted to get a second one for myself if the opportunity presented itself.

I purchased the Phillippi cue directly from their shop around a week prior to the Derby.

Upon arriving at the Derby I saw that Don had a Gilbert cue with two shafts that had the same ring work as my jump/break cue. If could get this cue, I would have a second shaft for Gilbert playing jump/break cue and I could simply sell Don’s cue with one shaft.

I also noticed that Cueaddicts had the tulipwood Gilbert jump/break that I had been interested in for a while after seeing it on their website. I started thinking about options on how I could get that cue in a trade deal as opposed to just buying it.

I showed the Phillippi (and a few other cues) around to all of the dealers to get a feel for how it would do in any kind of deal. Everybody wanted it.

I also noticed that Don had a Hercek. However, he initially didn’t really want to do anything at all with it. But as anybody who has dealt with Don knows, he has a thing for Southwests, he finds them hard to resist. Taking that into account, I thought to myself that maybe if I had a nice Southwest he might be a little more open to a deal. I also kept in mind that he had that Gilbert with two shafts with matching ring work as my playing jump/break cue.

After getting a good feel for things, I ended up taking the Phillippi to Cueaddicts to work a deal. I chose a Southwest (intending to trade it to Don) that they had valued at $2800. It was cocobolo, nice veneers, nice ring work; overall a very nice cue but not for $2800. I have sold similar Southwests for $2100 in the past although if someone really wanted this cue I could see it possibly bringing $2400 (I said possibly). But I only got this cue to trade away, so in my opinion this misrepresentation of the cue wasn’t a show stopper.

Cueaddicts was giving me around $3000 trade in on the Phillippi. As I mentioned earlier, I also wanted the tulipwood Gilbert jump/break (which they had priced at $450) so I threw that in as well. So the deal was my Phillippi plus some cash for the Southwest and tulipwood Gilbert jump/break. The numbers worked out to be me having $3000 in value towards their $3250 in value. They wanted $250 difference, after some back and forth we ended up settling on $150. But I ended up just giving them $160 because I only had $20s on me and just gave them eight of them and said what the hell, don’t worry about a measly $10 in change.

So now I had a Southwest to work a deal on with Don and I also had the tulipwood Gilbert jump/break I wanted. I went to Don and showed him the Southwest, he was very interested in it. We then went about negotiating which took quite a while and was pretty frustrating, but as most of us know, that is part of the package in working most cue deals.

In the deal with Don I gave him the Southwest, two Phillippis and $600 for his Hercek and two Gilberts (one medium range, one relatively low range). One of the Gilberts was the cue I wanted with the two shafts with matching ring work, one of which I could use with my Gilbert playing jump/break cue.

So now after the deal with Don I had a nice Hercek, a second shaft for my Gilbert jump/break playing cue, and another nice Gilbert.

Don, as he needed some cash to pay for another cue he had coming in (he didn’t keep this a secret by any means, he was even selling some of his other Southwests for very low prices to get some cash in his hands) took the Southwest I had just traded to him to Cueaddicts to see what they would do. They really wanted the cue back, but were low-balling him pretty hard. He was telling me about the potential deal and I told him that they told me the cue was valued at $2800. I told him I sold similar cues for $2100 so in my mind that was a good number for the cue. I made a mental note of this so if I dealt with Cueaddicts again (don’t see this happening) in the future I would be better able to protect my interests.

Now back to my deals. Add the deal I did with Don together with the Cueaddicts deal and I had achieved for the most part what I had set out to do. However, I still had to get a Gilbert jump/break similar to my playing cue for my fellow pool player back here. Joe Salazar had two of these, one nearly exactly like my playing cue, and one with the same work but in purpleheart.

Joe and I ended up working a deal in which I got from him the simple Hercek I have pictured and the Gilbert purpleheart jump/break. He and I usually work some mutually beneficial deals, but I must confess he took me to the cleaners on this one. It was Saturday morning, the snow was moving in, I had a long drive and I wanted to get on my way, I really wanted the Hercek and I also wanted to square away my fellow pool player by getting him a nice Gilbert jump/break. Given all of that I caved in to a quick deal and then hit the road. Regardless, I’m still satisfied as this simple Hercek plays out of this world.

So, in summary, in case you missed it:

--I got some very nice Herceks (of which I had never owned before).
--I got a second shaft for my Gilbert playing jump/break cue.
--I got a second Gilbert jump/break (tulipwood) cue.
--I got a Gilbert jump/break for my fellow pool player.
--I moved some old inventory and took in some different cues from this deal.
--I only had to put out minimal cash to work these deals.
--I also did a few other deals, but the have no bearing on this matter.

Now, I would definitely say that I have said about all that can be said on the matter. The facts above are the facts, simple as that, choose to believe them or not, makes no difference to me. Like I said from the beginning, I have nothing to hide, which is part of the reason I will not delete this post. But if you feel the need to continue dragging this out with more hearsay, innuendo, whatever, go right on ahead. See my first paragraph for what I think about this.

I do hope that with this lengthy post which explains everything in detail that the horse is indeed finally dead.

(Name)
 
If you find this thread boring and pointless, DON'T READ IT.

No one involved is going to stop posting because the audience at AZ wants them to. There is some good information here, and even if there weren't I am categorically opposed to deleting entire threads, whatever new low a thread descends to.

-Roger
 
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