5 minute epoxy

J

josie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a customer that his tip keeps popping off one of the old predators. I was thinking about trying 5 min. epoxy instead of the loctite gel I usually use. Would this be stronger? I don't have any problems with tips coming off except his.

If the 5 min stuff does not work I guess I will have to go with West 206 or something like that.
 
It won't be any better than CA.
Make sure you scratch the face of the plastic Pred ferrule w/220 grit.
Scratch crosswise.
Clean it then coat with thin CA. Coat the tip with thin CA.
Re-scratch them a little after that then glue the tip on.
 
josie said:
I have a customer that his tip keeps popping off one of the old predators. I was thinking about trying 5 min. epoxy instead of the loctite gel I usually use. Would this be stronger? I don't have any problems with tips coming off except his.

If the 5 min stuff does not work I guess I will have to go with West 206 or something like that.
Click to expand...

face the ferul not to smooth.
don't touch the surface with your finger.
apply gel to surface and let dry.forms a foundation.
gel the tip ,stick her on.

bill
 
JoeyInCali said:
It won't be any better than CA.
Make sure you scratch the face of the plastic Pred ferrule w/220 grit.
Scratch crosswise.
Clean it then coat with thin CA. Coat the tip with thin CA.
Re-scratch them a little after that then glue the tip on.
Click to expand...

I agree........right glue, and right prep. Epoxy won't hold any better. The next question, or issue, how does your client treat his cue? Sometimes, even the best glue and prep won't keep a tip on if the owner doesn't maintain a good enviroment for it. JMHO.
Dave
 
Ferrule

And - last but not least... If they have one of those cheap plastic ferrules, you may want to change it. That can be a problem also.
Thanks!
 
Thanks for the replies. I have wondered why it is just this customer that is having the problems. I had not heard of sealing the ferrule with CA first. think I will try sealing the tip and ferrule with CA first. How much pressure do you guys use when clamping the tip? One tip I remembered after posting was not to put too much pressure when clamping. I might be pressing all the glue out. I have been clamping it with my Porper tailstock.
 
I have had the same problem with the Predators. I don't seal the face of the ferrule, but I seal the tips. Here is the process that works well for me (especially Moori's):

1: Face off ferrule, hit it with 220 grit
2: Sand glue side of tip with 220, then coat with thin super glue, let it soak for a minute, wipe off the excess glue of the tip, let it dry completely
3: lightly scuff the tip with 220 grit, then glue on ( I use loctite 454)

I haven't found a difference with tail stock pressure, but they will pop off with just a little side pressure without sealing the tip first.

When I take one of these shafts in, I start the tip prep before I start anything with the shaft. I let the seal coat of glue on the tip dry while I'm cleaning the shaft, that way it's ready to glue onto the shaft when I get to that point.

Good luck.
 
My educated guess it that the glue is soaking into the tip once pressure is applied and excess is squeezed out. Put a drop of glue on the tip and let it sit for about 30 seconds. Then, it has a chance to soak in and then install.

I never seal tips or ferrules before installing. Most times, I don't even score the face of the ferrule. Maybe I'm lucky...
 
ratcues said:
. . . I never seal tips or ferrules before installing. Most times, I don't even score the face of the ferrule. Maybe I'm lucky...
Click to expand...

Well, "maybe", but my money is on "maybe" you're GOOD

Gary
 
If you want to use an epoxy, look for an epoxy with a high peel strength. What I use here is not available overseas, but I am sure someone else must make a similar product that is a toughend epoxy with a high peel strength.
They are generally slow setting in the region of 24 -48 hrs.
As for using super glues, make sure it is not old stock or been open for more than 6 months.
Ryan has good advise.
 
Here's another thing to keep in mind. Not all epoxies are created equal. I almost never use epoxies on nonporous materials. They do not create the chemical bond like the CA glues. The same can be said about CA glues. They can be too thick, too thin, too brittle...for a given application.

Adhesives are not "one size fits all."
 
Tip problems

This may be throwback, but contact cement will work on those $%@*& ferrules. A thin coat apllied to each surface, allowed to dry to the touch (no strings), will work. I use a toothpick to check tackiness...
P
 
What tip?

Which tip are you having trouble with? or is it multiple tips?
There are nuances with some, but definatly let the ca migrate into the tip a bit before putting it on. Also are you using accellerator? This can also cause problems.
 
When I get a predator that has popped off a tip, I always go to the Goriila. I just ask the player to give me overnight, and I use gorilla with a little moisture from spit on the faced/sanded ferrule, and on the sanded tip. I have never had any repeat failures. I suspect what RatCues said about letting the CA soak in a 30 seconds might solve a lot of the issues. It seems that the CA gets squeezed out and the remaining glue absorbs into the tip and leaves little for a good bond. Perhaps that is why "priming" the tip and ferrule is popular among many installers.
Most of my Predator issues have been with Moori tips, but other brand tips on Predators have also popped, just way more rarely.
 
olsonsview said:
Most of my Predator issues have been with Moori tips, but other brand tips on Predators have also popped, just way more rarely.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Mooris are the worst for soaking up glue. That's what got me looking into it the way I do it. The Moori would pop off when I cut them down. I'd see it when I worked tournaments, not so much in the shop. Here, I glue a tip on and then work on other stuff for an hour or so...or more. Then cut it down. At tourneys, they get about 10-15 minutes to cure.
 
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tips

radge69 said:
I have had the same problem with the Predators. I don't seal the face of the ferrule, but I seal the tips. Here is the process that works well for me (especially Moori's):

1: Face off ferrule, hit it with 220 grit
2: Sand glue side of tip with 220, then coat with thin super glue, let it soak for a minute, wipe off the excess glue of the tip, let it dry completely
3: lightly scuff the tip with 220 grit, then glue on ( I use loctite 454)

I haven't found a difference with tail stock pressure, but they will pop off with just a little side pressure without sealing the tip first.

When I take one of these shafts in, I start the tip prep before I start anything with the shaft. I let the seal coat of glue on the tip dry while I'm cleaning the shaft, that way it's ready to glue onto the shaft when I get to that point.

Good luck.
Click to expand...


Just to mention my experience:

Never had a tip come off before I put on a Moori. It popped off 3 times before I got it out of the lathe. Twice with ca and once with 5 min epoxy. I faced the ferrule and sanded the tip each time.

I looked in the internet and found a tid bit... if you put a thin coat of ca on the tip and ferrule and then let them fully dry before you finally put it on with ca, it will stick.

I did this and the tip is still on after a month. go figure!!

I read somewhere that the Kamui tips need the same procedure.


Kim
 
whammo57 said:
Just to mention my experience:

Never had a tip come off before I put on a Moori. It popped off 3 times before I got it out of the lathe. Twice with ca and once with 5 min epoxy. I faced the ferrule and sanded the tip each time.

I looked in the internet and found a tid bit... if you put a thin coat of ca on the tip and ferrule and then let them fully dry before you finally put it on with ca, it will stick.

I did this and the tip is still on after a month. go figure!!

I read somewhere that the Kamui tips need the same procedure.


Kim
Click to expand...

I had problems with Kamui's as well. I hit them now thoroughly with thin. If, when I scuff I see black, I put another drop of thin. I scuff the ferrule as well. 220-400...both work for me.
 
I use Loctite Super Attack Gel. never had a problem with Kamui. I have never had a leather tip popping off, now that I have read this, I might let the glue rest about 30 seconds. Thanks Ryan ! In my experience the more pressure you put on the tip against the ferrule, the better will stay.
I would not recommend epoxy on leather tips.
I had problems sticking a WD on a Fury break/jump ferrule. I had some fresh break/jump cues with White Diamond or phenolic that popped of after few days, and I used 2 parts 3 min epoxy from Henkel to put them back. They never popped of.
 
I've used ten-minute epoxy and contact cement for my own cues and have never had one pop off. My ferrules are not capped though. That may be working in my favor. I also don't use a lathe for facing. I use the old-timers top sander from way back.
 
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