Ok, you've broke a rack for one pocket, the top pocket is yours and you made one on the break. Please diagram your pattern to go 8 and out.
8 and out - 1 pocket
- Thread starter supergreenman
- Start date
I'm about to make a joke that will get me yelled at... the only thing more boring that a 1-pocket game, is diagraming a 1-pcket game.
*ducks and runs out of the forum....
Is the 12 as dead as it looks? I would hit the 11-7-3-12 combo, hitting the 11 center to send the cue for the 4, or 6 if I did not get enough bounce. Rest would depend on how the rack moved after the combo.
*ducks and runs out of the forum....
Is the 12 as dead as it looks? I would hit the 11-7-3-12 combo, hitting the 11 center to send the cue for the 4, or 6 if I did not get enough bounce. Rest would depend on how the rack moved after the combo.
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I guess why even post?
Thats a tough layout to go all the way. The 12/3 looks about dead, but gettin it is tough.
Ill give it a wack.
Start with the 4, bump the 11/7 to get the 9. If under the 9 a bit, draw into the 7/8 hopefully leaving a shot on either the 12/3 or the 6. If the combo goes, and you keep the cue in the middle you should have a shot on the 3, Play the 3 then the 15. At this point it gets fuzzy as Im not sure EXACTLY where the bumpers ended up. But after the 15 play the 13, back to the middle, pick up the 8, 7, 11, or 2, down to pick up the 6 and back up for another one in the middle. I think I lost count at this point.
Thats a tough layout to go all the way. The 12/3 looks about dead, but gettin it is tough.
Ill give it a wack.
Start with the 4, bump the 11/7 to get the 9. If under the 9 a bit, draw into the 7/8 hopefully leaving a shot on either the 12/3 or the 6. If the combo goes, and you keep the cue in the middle you should have a shot on the 3, Play the 3 then the 15. At this point it gets fuzzy as Im not sure EXACTLY where the bumpers ended up. But after the 15 play the 13, back to the middle, pick up the 8, 7, 11, or 2, down to pick up the 6 and back up for another one in the middle. I think I lost count at this point.
This is assuming the 3/12 is not dead right now. If it is, there are a few ways to get at the combo, if you don't have to throw it in. Bank the 5 firmly into the 11/7, and the 3/12 goes whether you hit the 11 OR 7.
edited to add: I like the 5 ball banking into the combo, instead of shooting the 11 straight on. The 11 goes off the 4 two rails towards where the CB is. If you draw the CB for safety (on the 5), I am just not comfortable with how many balls are moving around, possibly messing up the layout.. You don't HAVE to get a shot if one of those balls comes back towards the CB. With the 5 ball bank, you have options to stun forward an inch or so if you want, and even if the 12 ball hangs up on a tough table, you have your opponent in a horrible trap.
You COULD cut the 14 into the 8 for the combo, but after the CB crashing into either the 1 or 15, position is inconsistent.
Did I win a gold star? Or am I still a sucker??
Russ
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Actually I did set the 3/12 to be dead ( I even used a ruler) after your shot on the 6 I think the 5 should go next then come up table to play the combo on the dead balls.Russ Chewning said:
This is assuming the 3/12 is not dead right now. If it is, there are a few ways to get at the combo, if you don't have to throw it in. Bank the 5 firmly into the 11/7, and the 3/12 goes whether you hit the 11 OR 7.
You COULD cut the 14 into the 8, but after the CB crashing into either the 1 or 15, position is inconsistent.
Did I win a gold star? Or am I still a sucker??
Russ
supergreenman said:
I agree, if you intend to play the combo off the 11/7 (with a firm hit to negate throw), but if you were going to use the 14/8, I don't like all the balls going towards my opponent's pocket.
Using the 11/7 to do the combo pushes all balls towards your pocket, making things a lot tougher on your opponent if the combo jaws.
Russ
supergreenman said:
Assuming the 12 is wired, why wait? I shoot the dead ball immediately and play shape in the middle of the table. Of course there are no guarantees of having a good shot, but playing whitey in the middle increases your chances of getting out, rather than trying to play shape on the 4 or 6.
Franky said:
I agree there is risk moving those balls. I know it's hard to quantify, but I bet you could shoot that dead one 10 different ways (playing cue ball to the middle of the table) and have a shot to run out 9 times. My whole objective is to figure out a way to run out without shooting the 4 or the 6 until one of the last couple of shots. I think if you open up the middle, you might just have 5 stop shots in the middle of the table, and then you can duck down and get the last two balls on the rail. I know that is best case scenario, but I'm just trying to make the point that the way to run 7s and 8s is to keep whitey away from the rails.
senor said:
What an arbitrary rule...I can just imagine Efren saying to himself, "I know I have at least three balls to start if I take these balls off the rail, PLUS, I have more rail space to hit for position if I need it later, but, I better follow the golden rule, and keep whitey away from the rail.
Actually...If you take balls off the top rail, it DOES open the top rail for position options later on, going two rails behind the stack.
And.. Can I please see all the ways to get to center table right now? And what specific ball are you shooting next? You run 7's and 8's in One Pocket not by "keeping whitey away from the rail", but by "knowing EXACTLY which ball you will shoot next", or at least playing position on one of two balls in more difficult position routes.
Russ
Franky said:Careful Russ...you keep talkin' like this and you'll be a C+ player before you know it.
I'm not buying what yer sellin'.
Ole' JoeyA still owes me some 9-6 and the breaks.. He treated me like I was a little girl at DCC.Of course, then I told him, "You can't touch me there, sir.. You're not my Daddy!
Russ
Russ Chewning said:
Russ, I've never played any Filipino one pocket, but I've played a handful of America's best. I can't imagine many scenarios where each one of them does not pick off the dead one and proceed to run out. The 4 and the 6 are either the last balls to go in or they are safety valve shots - shots you might play shape for if the original plan of running out from the middle does not work. But in not too many circumstances should those two balls figure in your '8 & out' at the beginning or in the middle of the run.
[/QUOTE]And.. Can I please see all the ways to get to center table right now?[/QUOTE]
Okay Russ, you got me. Maybe I was exaggerating for effect. But I think you can shoot the combo soft, firm or hard and move the cue ball to the same place in the middle, either floating it over there or stunning it over there. I'm not in favor of drawing the cue ball off the rail and out, but I suppose that's an option as well.
[/QUOTE]And what specific ball are you shooting next? You run 7's and 8's in One Pocket not by "keeping whitey away from the rail", but by "knowing EXACTLY which ball you will shoot next", or at least playing position on one of two balls in more difficult position routes.[/QUOTE]
Russ, I can't imagine more than 1 out of 10 times where I wouldn't have a few shots to shoot at from the middle of the table. So, I can't answer which one I'm shooting at, but I'm confident there will be more than one good shot. Trust me, Russ, running 8s and 7s is easier from the middle. Of course, some runouts will require tight shape, but the idea is to try make the runout easier.
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Here's how I would probably do it. I'd definitely shoot the 4 ball first, that way you can't sell out and if you miss it'll be sitting in the hole and the cue will be behind the rack...
nevermind.....
senor said:
Gotcha. Keep in mind, I advocated approaching that dead combo from another angle. I never intended to shoot the 4 ball first if the combo was dead. Read my original post.
If the combo were dead, I personally like either banking the 5 ball into the combo, or hitting the 11 directly and caroming into the 5. The point is, you mention that it is improbable not to get a shot if you shoot the combo and go to mid table. And I say it is impossible not to get a shot by staying down near the 4 and 6.
Now, if you don't like messing with the 4 and 6 while you are guaranteed position on them, then fine. Just keep in mind that when you hit that combo, about 3 balls (3, 8, and 14) are going to move into the position zones of another three balls (13, 15, and 1). I can see a lot of different scenarios where you come to mid table and have nothing but an off angle combo.
You got 6 balls in the open right now. If you had a better shot on one of those six balls (CB being further off the rail and closer to the 15, for example..) it would be suicide for you to shot the combo unless it was a stop shot, couldn't miss, absolutely 100% hanger.
Even Efren knows that if you got open balls and can run out without breaking the stack open, you do it. He knows that ANYTHING could happen to screw you and put you behind a ball, or on some tough sellout combo, etc.
I'm just saying this is one of those RARE opportunities to win an absolute gift game. You need to look hard for what you would do hill-hill in the finals against Efren here. If you think your best chance is to hit the combo and travel seven feet to the center of the table, not being sure what your next shot is, then that works for you. As long as you're confident, then that is the right shot for you. That just doesn't work for me.
I see many uncertainties here. If you don't look close, some stuff can catch you off guard.. See what happens (maybe) if you shoot a stop shot on the combo..
See both balls heading back to where the CB is? Bad juju.
Actually, if the 4 ball combo is dead-nuts on, I like the draw shot out to center table.. But, if it IS dead, and I can hit that combo by banking the 5 into it and holding the CB, I like that a LOT better. It takes the uncertainty out of where all those center table balls end up, and gives me an easy shot with easy position, what could be better???
Anyways.. we're cool, man.. Just trying to give you a different perspective. I've been in too many games where I got lazy on position, did not play tight enough, only ran 7, and lost the game.
Good shootin' to yah....
Russ
