8 Ball New Rule?

[Gotboost95]

I've got a great idea. How about if you make a ball on the break you have to shoot at that set only. If you only make a solid that you have to shoot at a solid.

This should make the game even and a little more difficult for run outs and forcing you to use more strategy and eight ball skills that are disappearing from this game lately in order to make run outs much easier.

Did you just add an existing apa rule? Although giving you crap here that rule does make the run out a touch more difficult. sometimes you break and you only have a kick or a bank at what you made on the break.

I like the idea just don't like the slop aspect of apa.

 

[Banks]

Did you just add an existing apa rule? Although giving you crap here that rule does make the run out a touch more difficult. sometimes you break and you only have a kick or a bank at what you made on the break.

I like the idea just don't like the slop aspect of apa.

I like APA because it makes you work harder off the break, in a way, but I also like BCA because you aren't as likely to get hosed on the break. Either way, we should play some time. :thumbup: I'll be the guy that's asking for a spot.

 

[Gotboost95]

I like APA because it makes you work harder off the break, in a way, but I also like BCA because you aren't as likely to get hosed on the break. Either way, we should play some time. :thumbup: I'll be the guy that's asking for a spot.

I've actually met you and watched you play a few times. Petty solid I doubt I'll be giving you the spot btw. I'll be playing against you next weekend I believe at singles regional.

 

[Banks]

I've actually met you and watched you play a few times. Petty solid I doubt I'll be giving you the spot btw. I'll be playing against you next weekend I believe at singles regional.

Lol! It was worth a try, right? I'm guessing it must have been up at our home location on Wednesdays, since any other place in Vancouver is an in-and-out kind of deal. If you're a 7, we'll be in the same bracket.. take it easy on me! :embarrassed2:

 

[dabarbr]

Frank, I'm willing to play any way that makes it harder for you to run out. :grin-square:

Personally, I like the strategy and thought process behind analyzing the table and choosing the proper group. Of course, I'm not talking US Bar Table Championships where 8 Ball is more of a run out game like 9 Ball, but rather the run of the mill league night. :thumbup:

Actually my original post was a joke because that's the way eight ball was always played and having played it for over 55 years I developed strategy and skills to win games that my set of balls were not favored for a run out and would be considered a loss against good players. Winning these games by repositioning balls to tie them up, safety play, when to abort a run, etc., and basically turning the game into a chess match in order to win was a great asset.

The game has changed so much that these skills are disappearing and the game is becoming a breaking contest.

Like nine ball, the lesser player now has a better chance to win over the better player because of rule changes over the last twenty years or better. Many eight ball games these days now are open after the break, no matter what you made, BIH anywhere on the table after a scratch on the break. With these rules, why play eight ball any more, just change the name of the game to "what do you like and shoot them down."

Hope to see you at the Swanee this weekend

 

[Gotboost95]

Lol! It was worth a try, right? I'm guessing it must have been up at our home location on Wednesdays, since any other place in Vancouver is an in-and-out kind of deal. If you're a 7, we'll be in the same bracket.. take it easy on me! :embarrassed2:

Oh I thought you were a sandbagging 6 like myself. I met you one night while you were at star house playing masters. Against Greg Sowder and his team. I wasn't playing though. My wife and I were out looking for divebar Chinese food.

I did see you at the singles qualifier in the morning and stopped and said hi and shook your hand.

 

[CreeDo]

The break advantage definitely exists, but you have to play at a pretty high level to
turn the break into an advantage.

For example even with Shane's awesome hard break, and strong runout skills,
the breaker only won 56% of the time when Shane played Corey in a TAR 8-ball match.

That's only a 6% edge for one of the best breaks on earth, and runs out almost every single time
(he ran out 16 out of 18 racks when he made a ball and didn't scratch).

For the rest of us, breaking may not even be an advantage.

 

[Banks]

Oh I thought you were a sandbagging 6 like myself. I met you one night while you were at star house playing masters. Against Greg Sowder and his team. I wasn't playing though. My wife and I were out looking for divebar Chinese food.

I did see you at the singles qualifier in the morning and stopped and said hi and shook your hand.

Ah, yes! Will see you again in a couple of weeks then. You ever come down to Portland? If so, maybe we can get together and hit a few before the tournament.. or if you're in the mood for divebar chinese again on a Wednesday.

How about you decide before the match which groups you and your opponent will shoot and then you have to be that group through the entire match?

I kind of like the sounds of that. Makes things a bit interesting. Of course, it may only be a little while before people start figuring out which corner ball is more likely to go and then changing up their breaks.

 

[Banks]

The break advantage definitely exists, but you have to play at a pretty high level to
turn the break into an advantage.

For example even with Shane's awesome hard break, and strong runout skills,
the breaker only won 56% of the time when Shane played Corey in a TAR 8-ball match.

That's only a 6% edge for one of the best breaks on earth, and runs out almost every single time
(he ran out 16 out of 18 racks when he made a ball and didn't scratch).

For the rest of us, breaking may not even be an advantage.

While the breaker only won 56% of the time in that match, not that many people play on similar equipment. In that match, did they have the standard table or was it the fatboy rails? Once you get on a barbox, it can be a huge advantage.

 

[Gotboost95]

Ah, yes! Will see you again in a couple of weeks then. You ever come down to Portland? If so, maybe we can get together and hit a few before the tournament.. or if you're in the mood for divebar chinese again on a Wednesday.

Yeah I do venture down to Portland occasionally. I play the Sunday afternoon Nitehawk every once in awhile. I've been trying to get my schedule opened up enough to play the Saturday pup181 tourney. Heard it's pretty tough one.

I could make it out sometime just to shoot. usually just end up going during the day and practicing with a bunch of the local BCA old timers at the ice house.

What days do you usually go practice?

 

[dr9ball]

How about adding a rule in 8 Ball?

If you make a ball on the break your opponent decides which balls are yours? If you don't make a ball on the break your opponent can take what he wants.

This would take a little away from the break advantage.

The break is part of the game. The rules don't need to be changed. Why penalize the better player? (someone with a good break and the ability to run out) they should win more often. Isn't the point of playing the game to develop one's skill to win the game?

Heads up the better player should win in the long run. That's the advantage of being the better player. If folks would spend more time developing their skill instead of developing new rules to make up for sub par skills, pool might get a little more respect.

In the NFL if you have a kicker who can consistently hit 60 yard field goals you don't change the rule that they have to kick from greater than 70 yards just to give the other teams a chance? Winning more should be an advantage you earn with your hard work and practice.

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

The break is part of the game. The rules don't need to be changed. Why penalize the better player?[/QUOTE]

That's what alternate break is for. Alternate break is for losers! I say if you can run a 5 pack or more GREAT!

 

[Bigdogbret]

What's wrong with the breaker having an advantage in 8 Ball? They also have the advantage in 9 Ball, 10 Ball and One Pocket. Are you wanting to change those rules too? I like to see racks being run, it is a sign of good decision making and skill. Why try to insert more luck good or bad into the game than it already has?

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

...In the NFL if you have a kicker who can consistently hit 60 yard field goals you don't change the rule that they have to kick from greater than 70 yards just to give the other teams a chance? Winning more should be an advantage you earn with your hard work and practice.

Not to say I disagree with you as it relates to pool, but not so sure about the NFL analogy. They have indeed tweaked the rules of the kicking game occasionally to suit their objectives.

 

[CreeDo]

While the breaker only won 56% of the time in that match, not that many people play on similar equipment. In that match, did they have the standard table or was it the fatboy rails? Once you get on a barbox, it can be a huge advantage.

JCIN announced TAR would go to a standard diamond on 1/23/2013.
The SVB vs. Corey match was November of 2013. So all of this was on a standard diamond.

I think the stats might surprise you, for a bar box. Or maybe in general.

I think maybe people overrate the value of the break because we all remember
when someone puts up a 6-pack or something. Then the break looks all-important.
We forget the times they break dry or fail to get out.

You can go to http://www.pool-trax.net and filter results by table size and game.
So you can see how a player does breaking on a barbox.

They tracked 56 racks of barbox 8-ball with Shane.
He broke 30 times and ran out 16 of them.
Nevertheless, his win percentage was only 56.7% (for those 30 games where he broke).
So his win rate is only half a percent better on the barbox.

I don't have enough stats to be sure but I think I see a pattern when I look
up various players doing 8b (on barbox and other table sizes) - their win rate is just
a few percentage points above their break'n'run rate. And most players can't more than
a few percentage points above 50% for break'n'run rate. For the average guy, forget it.

 

[Banks]

JCIN announced TAR would go to a standard diamond on 1/23/2013.
The SVB vs. Corey match was November of 2013. So all of this was on a standard diamond.

I think the stats might surprise you, for a bar box. Or maybe in general.

I think maybe people overrate the value of the break because we all remember
when someone puts up a 6-pack or something. Then the break looks all-important.
We forget the times they break dry or fail to get out.

You can go to http://www.pool-trax.net and filter results by table size and game.
So you can see how a player does breaking on a barbox.

They tracked 56 racks of barbox 8-ball with Shane.
He broke 30 times and ran out 16 of them.
Nevertheless, his win percentage was only 56.7% (for those 30 games where he broke).
So his win rate is only half a percent better on the barbox.

I don't have enough stats to be sure but I think I see a pattern when I look
up various players doing 8b (on barbox and other table sizes) - their win rate is just
a few percentage points above their break'n'run rate. And most players can't more than
a few percentage points above 50% for break'n'run rate. For the average guy, forget it.

Very interesting stuff.. thanks for that.

 

[ceodynamo]

interesting

That's what alternate break is for. Alternate break is for losers!

And thats why BCA Nationals and VNEA Nationals even state tournaments are alternate break and RACK YOUR OWN!

BCA Nationals is not a loser event and neither is VNEA.

Statements like this make me sick

AKA I don't like this sooooooo everyone who does is a LOSER

I bet you like fox news too

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I think maybe people overrate the value of the break because we all remember
when someone puts up a 6-pack or something. Then the break looks all-important.
We forget the times they break dry or fail to get out.


They tracked 56 racks of barbox 8-ball with Shane.
He broke 30 times and ran out 16 of them.
Nevertheless, his win percentage was only 56.7% (for those 30 games where he broke).
So his win rate is only half a percent better on the barbox.

One thing is for sure though, you can't put a 6 pack on your opponent without the break.

17 games is 56.67% of 30. So Shane only won one of the 14 games where he broke but didn't run out? That's surprising for some reason.