9 BALL "gambling" rule- SUCKS.

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
I had never thought about this before but it came up last night at the weekly handicapped 9 Ball tournament at Buffalo Billiards.

The game is Nine Ball.
Player A gets the spot....the wild eight.
Player B is giving the spot to player A.

A friend of mine (Player A) was getting spotted the 8 in a handicap 9 ball tournament.

His wild 8 spot ball was in the jaws of a pocket.

He has no shot (player A). He can't hit the 4 ball which is the object ball as he is snookered tough. If he shoots the 8 ball in the eight ball stays down and Player A gets cue in hand.

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Imagine now that Player B is shooting and his spot ball is in the jaws but Player B can't hit the object ball because he is snookered, so he shoots the eight ball in. The eight ball gets spotted on the spot and does not stay down.----------
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I have to imagine that somewhere a long time ago, the better players who were giving the spot figured out a way to get another slight advantage over their lesser opponent.

Am I missing something or does the rule suck for the person getting the spot?

JoeyA
 
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Um unless I am reading this wrong then this situation benefits the person getting the spot. It prevents the person who is giving the spot from shooting the money ball in out of turn.

The rule doesn't suck for the person getting the spot.
 
JB Cases said:
Um unless I am reading this wrong then this situation benefits the person getting the spot. It prevents the person who is giving the spot from shooting the money ball in out of turn.

The rule doesn't suck for the person getting the spot.
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No John. It doesn't prevent the person who is giving the spot from shooting the money ball in out of turn.

JoeyA
 
I think I understand what you are saying....

If he shoots the money ball out of turn, would REPLACING it in the jaws of the pocket be the way you would want to play?

Putting it on the spot is the way it goes. And in fact, it is a strategy to make an opponents hanging money ball out of turn so it goes on the spot.

Think of it this way, if in a non-handicapped game, the 9 is hanging and you are in jail and can't see the 1, a good move is to pocket the 9 out of turn and take a foul. The same logic applies with money balls.
 
JoeyA said:
No John. It doesn't prevent the person who is giving the spot from shooting the money ball in out of turn.

JoeyA
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For practical purposes it does. Since the money ball spots there is no advantage to shooting it in out of turn except as a defensive move the same as any player would do with a hanging nine ball.

If you are playing even and the nine ball is dead and you can't make a legal shot then the move is ALWAYS to make the dead nine and let it spot.

This is the same move on the 8 if you are giving up the 8 or any other money ball.

Now I can see your point if you think that the 8 should spot no matter who makes it. I have played both ways gambling. I have played that the 8 spots when it is shot out of turn by either player - basically the same rules for both players.

But in the situation you outlined there is no reason for the player who is getting the spot to shoot the hanging 8 in. It's to his advantage to leave it there and if the spot giver shoots it in on a foul then it spots.
 
JoeyA said:
No John. It doesn't prevent the person who is giving the spot from shooting the money ball in out of turn.

JoeyA
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Joey, check your OP, I think you made a boo boo in your explaination.
At least I'm confused. All money balls should be spotted on ANY foul. At least thats the way I've always played.

Dick
 
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The gambling rules I like to play by are the money ball spots on a push or a foul by the giving player, but stays down on a push or a foul by the getting player. I think this is fair for either giving or getting weight.

I also play it always spots on the break, unless the person getting the spot makes it on the break and fouls. Then he is penalized and it stays down.
 
One more thought JoeyA, this rule is really common place among gambling and handicapped tournaments. that said, your friend will be on both sides of the giving weight and getting weight in his pool career. So he will have ample opportunity to knock in hanging money balls he is spotting his opponents.
 
iusedtoberich said:
One more thought JoeyA, this rule is really common place among gambling and handicapped tournaments. that said, your friend will be on both sides of the giving weight and getting weight in his pool career. So he will have ample opportunity to knock in hanging money balls he is spotting his opponents.
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I know what you mean but if you are the person who most always get the 8 you know you are climbing a mountain most of the time.

I was just thinking that if the 8 spots for Player B, it should also spot for Player A. (based upon my scenario in the first post). I had never considered the difference in rules for the spotter and the spotee as being one sided but believe it is.

JoeyA
 
SJDinPHX said:
Joey, check your OP, I think you made a boo boo in your explaination.
At least I'm confused. All money balls should be spotted on ANY foul. At least thats the way I've always played.

Dick
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That's not the way we play down here Dick.

If the spotee makes his own money ball on a foul, it stays down.
JoeyA
 
JB Cases said:
For practical purposes it does. Since the money ball spots there is no advantage to shooting it in out of turn except as a defensive move the same as any player would do with a hanging nine ball.

If you are playing even and the nine ball is dead and you can't make a legal shot then the move is ALWAYS to make the dead nine and let it spot.

This is the same move on the 8 if you are giving up the 8 or any other money ball.

Now I can see your point if you think that the 8 should spot no matter who makes it. I have played both ways gambling. I have played that the 8 spots when it is shot out of turn by either player - basically the same rules for both players.

But in the situation you outlined there is no reason for the player who is getting the spot to shoot the hanging 8 in. It's to his advantage to leave it there and if the spot giver shoots it in on a foul then it spots.
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I wonder how many people play that the 8 spots when it is shot out of turn by either player?
JoeyA
 
If you are giving me the wild 8 and I make the eight with a good hit its game over. If I have a called eight and make it without calling it I dont get to spot it, but if you make it with a bad hit it spots,if you make it with a good hit it stays down. This is the way we always play.
 
the rule is designed so that the person giving the spot cant just make the 8 out of turn and screw the person getting the spot.
 
I've never played any way other than if the "stronger" player makes the handicap ball on a foul it always spots. Any other way is ridiculous.
 
Ironman317 said:
the rule is designed so that the person giving the spot cant just make the 8 out of turn and screw the person getting the spot.
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Doesn't the guy getting the 8, have the right to protect his money ball if its hanging in the hole, and he is dead hooked ? I think all balls made on a foul shot, should spot up, no exceptions. I have been on both ends, and I think thats a fair rule for all. Push out or T-ex rules may change that scenario. Bottom line, both players (or a TD) must agree beforehand.

Dick
 
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SJDinPHX said:
Doesn't the guy getting the 8, have the right to protect his money ball if its hanging in the hole, and he is dead hooked ? I think all balls made on a foul shot, should spot up, no exceptions. I have been on both ends, and I think thats a fair rule for all. Push out or T-ex rules may change that scenario. Bottom line, both players (or a TD) must agree beforehand.

Dick
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all the rules that apply to the 9 ball apply to the 8 ball...it is another money ball for the weaker player. if the 9 is hanging in a pocket and you cannot see the lowest numbered ball on the table, you can make the 9 and it spots up...its the same difference.
 
That ball needs to spot, always. Otherwise, if I'm playing a lesser player, every time there were balls clustered to prevent an out, I'd just intentionally foul and make the spot ball. Wouldn't that be the move?

I agree, Joey. that's a joke
 
Ironman317 said:
the rule is designed so that the person giving the spot cant just make the 8 out of turn and screw the person getting the spot.
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That is a paart of the Texas Express rule actually. Before TE came along, any ball made spotted. Rules cahnged to speed things up and hence any balls made off a foul {scratch} stay down. It cheapened the game a lot, but, that is where we are.
 
It Seems........

It seems that for the most part, most everyone agrees that the rule pertaining to the 8 ball being spotted up if shot in out of turn or on a foul should be the same for BOTH PLAYERS?????????????

I see that some people have always played that the spot ball gets placed on the spot if it is made on a foul or out of turn. I have never seen it played that way and a friend complained that the way we play it here wasn't fair and I agree.

Thanks for all of your input.
JoeyA:outtahere:
 
JoeyA said:
No John. It doesn't prevent the person who is giving the spot from shooting the money ball in out of turn.

JoeyA
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If thet do that , then I take BIH and make the 9. It is only logical that the ball stays down from there. Your turn.

I have done that more than once and it usually ends the session. It has also led to rule fine-tuning: (on fouls) If spotter makes it, comes up. Spotted makes it, comes up:smash: It should be treated just like the 9!
 
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