9 Ball Gurus, Need Your help With a Prison Break

[sjm]

You ever hear the term, "I had him in jail", or "I was in jail" in the description of a rack of nine ball? Obviously, the former is a lot more fun that the latter.

In the rack below, after a well-executed safety, I sure thought I had my oppnent in jail, but he managed to execute a prison break. I still can't believe I lost this rack. How would you have approached the prison break if I had you locked up like this?

Note: Cueball is not frozen to the eight, with about an eighth of an inch in between them.

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[kyle]

Try to criss cross the table, hope for combo/carom into 9.

 

[Bob Jewett]

How would you have approached the prison break if I had you locked up like this?

It's not clear without being on a table, but I'm guessing that he played the three-cushion plus system shot which just misses the four ball after the second cushion. The cue ball came off the side rail, hit the two ball full and the reverse killed it to the back of the five ball.

If he has to win from here, I guess it would be possible to play the plus system much shorter and come in above the side pocket for the third cushion and just miss the three ball before the fourth cushion, then the cue ball nicks the two and puts the nine in.

As you've drawn it, it looks like he couldn't play two side rails before the two because the eight is too close, and I really don't like the two-cushion play (end rail, side rail behind the 3) because the 3 may be in the way.

 

[Rod]

Well one thing for sure if I don't hit the two or move the 9 I'm dead meat. Can't tell if the angle on the 8 is good enough to hit the two and take an intentional. The c/b doesn't show up on the wei.

The two rail shooting towards the lower right corner looks better for me to hit the two. If not that then a one rail to move the 9. Thing is the 4 is tied up for the moment so that's what I'd do.

Rod

 

[TATE]

I think Bob figured out the only reasonable rail route is the three railer. Hit with left center or left draw, the cue ball will straighten out after the third rail. I don't like the shot because of where the 5 is. The table is a mess, so hitting the 2 or moving the 9 would be the top priority. I don't think you can go the other direction with a three railer because the 3 is in the way. I would have tried this shot:

 

[sjm]

Well, some good ideas here, but here's what my opponent actually did. He aimed almost square into the eight with a level cue, a stroke that would constitute a foul (but since it would be a bad hit on the two, did it really matter?). His intent was to move the nine with the cue ball, and he was successful. The shot bothered me a little, and I wondered whether it was within the rules and/or etiquette to play that shot, but I reckoned it was probably OK. For reference, the original position is reproduced below, followed by a second table showing the shot played by my opponent. What happened was that the cue ball went one rail and scratched off the nine. The eight went into the five and actually knocked the five into the corner. I don't really remember where the eight ended up, so I had to take a guess. The position that I had with ball in hand, as best as I can guess, is shown on the third table.

My opponent, by shooting through the eight, had broken up the combo nine, but at least I had ball in hand. I wondered how he was able to judge the aim to get the cue to move the nine. Any insights would be appreciated. Finally, now that I've got ball in hand, what's my best approach from this point on?

The new position for consideration:

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[Rod]

I'd pick a point between a straight in 8 and the 9 ball then just send the cue through. That is if I shot it.

With BIH make the two and three leaving a good angle on the 4. Then just play safe by banking the 4 into the 6. I did almost the same a couple of days ago. It opens it up enough to make the 4. A jump is difficult from here because of the distance and the 7 is closer to the 4. On my safe the guy hit it two rails but sold out.

Rod

 

[pair0nineballs]

Im not very fond of 8-ball, but i thought it was a foul/scratch to hit the 8-ball with the cueball before its time

 

[sjm]

Im not very fond of 8-ball, but i thought it was a foul/scratch to hit the 8-ball with the cueball before its time

Actually, this was a rack of nineball. Nonetheless, I see this is your first post, and it's great to have you on the forum., I hope you'll participate in threads like this one, and others, too. Welcome Pair0nineballs, you're one of us now.

 

[Celtic]

After his "safety" I would play the 2 ball 3 railsoff the end rail, under the 3, to the long rail past the side, and towards the pocket nearest the 4. At the same time stun the cueball to get it wired to the 3 ball, you have the 4 and 6 also as blockers. Now the guy is left playing a kick at least 2 rails for a hit, he may miss and break out the 4 for ya, he may make the hit and leave a breakout shot, he may leave a chance to play another good safety even if he hits the ball. If he misses the 2 ball on the second shot he is on 2 fouls and you can look for the 3rd safety to kill him off if the out is not there.

There is no reason at all to make the 2 ball after his shot, working your way to the 4 to play the safe is not the play imo if you want to have the largest chance of winning.

 

[pair0nineballs]

Actually, this was a rack of nineball. Nonetheless, I see this is your first post, and it's great to have you on the forum., I hope you'll participate in threads like this one, and others, too. Welcome Pair0nineballs, you're one of us now.

I am an idiot, i see that it is a rack of 9-ball. For some reason I took it as a rack of 8 and was totally just off. Alright. Thanks for the welcome and hope to talk to you guys soon.

 

[TATE]

My opponent, by shooting through the eight, had broken up the combo nine, but at least I had ball in hand. I wondered how he was able to judge the aim to get the cue to move the nine. Any insights would be appreciated.

Simple - it was a push foul or a double hit. It would be difficult to shoot into the 8 and get enough speed with any legal shot. Still, it was a wise move.

Chris

 

[TATE]

Finally, now that I've got ball in hand, what's my best approach from this point on?

Your options are good. You can either run out from here or win the game with a safety.

Winning Safety (shown below):

This situation comes up once in a while. Ball in hand, locked up table. Getting to the 4 doesn't make sense unless you can make a bullet proof safe. Anything you leave will be an easy kick.

Since you have ball in hand and the two is off the rail, this is an ideal sitiuation for a break out safety - you can win the game right here. You set the cueball for a thin hit, almost on the rail, and shoot the cueball into the 4/6 at a slow speed, breaking them up. I like the direct route into them (A)rather than the back rail route (B), because you get a cleaner break up and the cue ball will stop because it is trapped between them ( the other way the cue ball might carom to mid table). If you can pull this off, I like your chances from here.

Ball in hand thin hit safeties are easy to aim and control. In this case the 3/7 are blockers for a big chunk of ther table, so you don't even have to hit it good. Main thing is to not leave the two sitting too close to the hole or the bottom rail or your opponent may kick it in next turn. Best place is next to the side rail.

Run Out:

Set up to thin cut the two into the upper corner and send the cue ball into the 4/6 for the break out. You might get blocked behind the seven so if you do this you want to aim for the space between the rail and the six - and the cueball will come out fine if you hit it with speed and a run out is likely.

Chris

 

[TATE]

Here's the WEI for a run out from here:

 

[piglit]

TATE!

How, in heaven's name, are you running out by A to B? Please let us into your dream would...

-piga

Here's the WEI for a run out from here:

 

[TATE]

TATE!

How, in heaven's name, are you running out by A to B? Please let us into your dream would...

-piga

It was in the post right before it. Set the cueball ball in hand to position "A", shoot the two in the corner and break up the 4/6, leaving the cueball in position "B" for the 3. I wish I were good enough to tell you where the 4 and 6 would end up, but that's beyond us.

Chris

 

[piglit]

It was in the post right before it. Set the cueball ball in hand to position "A", shoot the two in the corner and break up the 4/6, leaving the cueball in position "B" for the 3. I wish I were good enough to tell you where the 4 and 6 would end up, but that's beyond us.
Chris

Sorry, I fail to see how you are going to get to B after touching the 4-6 cluster.

Anyway, I thing you just play for b without touching anything else, shoot the 3 straight in, play the 4 rail-first (slow) to come 2 rails around for the out.

-pigi

 

[TATE]

Sorry, I fail to see how you are going to get to B after touching the 4-6 cluster.

Anyway, I thing you just play for b without touching anything else, shoot the 3 straight in, play the 4 rail-first (slow) to come 2 rails around for the out.

-pigi

Huh?

The 6 blocks any rail first shot on the 4. On break outs, you just have to take your chances. That's why I like the safety better.

Chris

 

[DaveK]

Well, some good ideas here, but here's what my opponent actually did. He aimed almost square into the eight with a level cue, a stroke that would constitute a foul (but since it would be a bad hit on the two, did it really matter?). His intent was to move the nine with the cue ball, and he was successful. The shot bothered me a little, and I wondered whether it was within the rules and/or etiquette to play that shot, but I reckoned it was probably OK.
...
I wondered how he was able to judge the aim to get the cue to move the nine. Any insights would be appreciated.

I can see why this shot could be bothersome. An intentional foul is sometimes a good play, and I don't see any problem with that. However when an illegal stroke is used (a foul by itself) to play a foul, then there can be an otherwise 'impossible' consequence of the foul (the failed 2 ball hit in this case).

As far as the aiming goes, for this I would just try and learn as I go. I feel foolish giving advice to this group, but I would start hitting center-ball straight (both balls should go straight up the push, cue ball stopping right after ?), and add a little cut, little more, and more, while observing the resulting paths, then repeat with top/bottom. Yes, I'm an engineer

Dave

 

[rogelioii]

It's not clear without being on a table, but I'm guessing that he played the three-cushion plus system shot which just misses the four ball after the second cushion. The cue ball came off the side rail, hit the two ball full and the reverse killed it to the back of the five ball.

If he has to win from here, I guess it would be possible to play the plus system much shorter and come in above the side pocket for the third cushion and just miss the three ball before the fourth cushion, then the cue ball nicks the two and puts the nine in.

As you've drawn it, it looks like he couldn't play two side rails before the two because the eight is too close, and I really don't like the two-cushion play (end rail, side rail behind the 3) because the 3 may be in the way.

What is the three-cushion plus system? Is that different from the Diamond System? If so, can you send me any reading material on it?