9-Ball on the Snap

IF this rule was ever to become standard, I think the Money ball ( 9 or 10 ball) should be spotted after the players inning, or if he runs the rack, it should be spotted after he makes the last ball before the money ball.
I dont think a player should be punished for making the money ball and spotting it instantly.
 
From the perspective of the player, respotting the 9/10 is a good way to make the game more a contest of skill.

However, I dont think that you can look at this issue solely from the perspective of the players. From the perspective of the fans watching, allowing a 9/10 on the break to count makes the games alot more exciting. How many times have all of us seen a match that was originally pretty much a blow out tighten up and become a real close match because of the 9/10 going in on the break?
 
I'm still not sure why there's such a fuss over the "luck" of the 9-ball going. You can't eliminate luck. Luck determines whether the 4-ball just barely slides in front of the 2-ball on the break, blocking your first shot. Luck decides whether the shot you barely had around another ball bobbles in or bobbles out. Luck decides whether the chalk mark on the cue ball hits the object ball or misses. Luck decides a lot of things, even on the break.

I am in favor of keeping the "9 on the break == win" rule. It's exciting. And if the opponent is racking, it shouldn't happen due to rack rigging.
 
uwate said:
From the perspective of the player, respotting the 9/10 is a good way to make the game more a contest of skill.

However, I dont think that you can look at this issue solely from the perspective of the players. From the perspective of the fans watching, allowing a 9/10 on the break to count makes the games alot more exciting.
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I'm a player and a fan. I don't really see what is so exciting about making the 9 on the break. I'm more captivated during a challenging run that is being executed with great skill. I'm sorry, but I'm not at the edge of my seat when the 9-ball is about to go in on the break. To me, it's as exciting as breaking and having the cue ball fly off the table. In other words, not very exciting...
 
I played in the 8-ball tournament in Reno and saw the finals between Mike Davis and Edwin Montel. They were having issues with the rack because they could not get the two balls behind the 9 to stick, which resulted in Mike Davis making I believe 3 9-ball breaks in a race to 9.

Mike Davis being the good sportsman that he is did not care for this at all. He wanted to win but he wanted to win fairly, which he gained a lot of respect from me for that.

Oh yeah let me share a funny little story about what happened right before the finals. Mike Davis was practicing and he knocked the cue ball off the table. This guy that was there with the camera crew picks up the ball and grins and then throws the ball over-handed pretty hard right at Mike Davis' head. Mike catches the ball 1 handed about 6 inches away from his head.

I couldn't believe what an idiot that guy was. Mike Davis about to play for $10,000 and this guy about knocks him out with a cue ball. I turned to a guy sitting next to me and said pretty much what I said in the sentence before this one and Mike overheard me, he just laughed and shook his head.
 
I'm in favor of keeping the rules as they are. If you make the game ball on the break & you don't scratch, you win the game. It's part of what makes 9-ball and 10-ball what they are & to a lesser extent 8-ball. Leaving the rules as they are will keep the matches moving & cut down on the time it takes to complete them.
 
beetle said:
I'm a player and a fan. I don't really see what is so exciting about making the 9 on the break. I'm more captivated during a challenging run that is being executed with great skill. I'm sorry, but I'm not at the edge of my seat when the 9-ball is about to go in on the break. To me, it's as exciting as breaking and having the cue ball fly off the table. In other words, not very exciting...
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Thats your opinion, of which you are definitely entitled to. I am also a player and a fan and I see it the other way.

Let me ask you this, how many times have you seen the 9 get snapped in to bring the match to double hill or something similar and the crowd does NOT hoot and holler as the ball dribbles into the pocket? The hooting and hollering happens EVERY TIME. Why? Because the nine on the break is pool action distilled to 2 or 3 seconds. I never once said a tough runout to get to double hill wasnt as exciting or more than a nine on the break, just that taking away the nine on the break was removing an entertainment factor for the fans.
 
beetle said:
I'm a player and a fan. I don't really see what is so exciting about making the 9 on the break. I'm more captivated during a challenging run that is being executed with great skill. I'm sorry, but I'm not at the edge of my seat when the 9-ball is about to go in on the break. To me, it's as exciting as breaking and having the cue ball fly off the table. In other words, not very exciting...
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I am not a fan of making the 9 or 10 on the break and would like it to be treated similarly to eight ball. If the shooter makes the 9/10 on the break, he has the option of having the ball spotted or having a re-rack and breaking again. If a foul is committed on the break with the 9/10 going in, the incoming shooter has the option of having the ball spotted or re-racked and breaking.
I am also in favor of having the 9/10 ball being a called pocket shot.
 
CaptiveBred said:
Here is how I would like to see the game played -

1 - No nine ball breaks

2 - no slop

3 - Early nine combos/caroms still allowed. Adds interesting aspect to the game...

I never understood why slop was accepted...
Click to expand...

I agree with you on every point!

SCCues
 
uwate said:
Thats your opinion, of which you are definitely entitled to. I am also a player and a fan and I see it the other way.

Let me ask you this, how many times have you seen the 9 get snapped in to bring the match to double hill or something similar and the crowd does NOT hoot and holler as the ball dribbles into the pocket? The hooting and hollering happens EVERY TIME.
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It's generally considered bad etiquette to "hoot and holler" during a nice run out, so that's why you don't hear audience emotion displayed even though internally, they are more excited than if the 9-ball went in on the break. :p Seriously though, I can see your side, too.
 
JAM said:
Beetle, I hope you have recovered too from the all-night-long Midnight Madness the other night! BTW, I hope to run into you soon because I want to ask you about another topic which is definitely your bailywick. ;)

JAM
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Hi Jennie,
I got knocked out so early, I actually got to sleep by 4! Maybe I'll see you at Galaxy tomorrow, or Valley Forge on Saturday and we can talk bugs (?) then.
--Steve
 
I believe the draw for a tournament should be the draw. many players have said "wow I got a good draw" or "man this draw sucks". It is all part of the tounament. If the better players get matched up early in one bracket and the lessor players get the "luck of the draw" then I guess the better players got a bad draw. Now the interesting part is for that lessor player that got a good draw if he happens to beat the better player towards the end of the tournament...who is to say he would not have knocked off that other better player earlier.

Bottom Line: The draw should be the draw and not seeded.
Good draw / Bad draw / Luck of the Draw
The draw is the draw.....
 
Chicagolandpool said:
I believe the draw for a tournament should be the draw. many players have said "wow I got a good draw" or "man this draw sucks". It is all part of the tounament. If the better players get matched up early in one bracket and the lessor players get the "luck of the draw" then I guess the better players got a bad draw. Now the interesting part is for that lessor player that got a good draw if he happens to beat the better player towards the end of the tournament...who is to say he would not have knocked off that other better player earlier.

Bottom Line: The draw should be the draw and not seeded.
Good draw / Bad draw / Luck of the Draw
The draw is the draw.....
Click to expand...

I'd love to draw Earl Strickland, for example. Or Effren. Not that I'd win, far from it. But I'd like to win a few games, and make them sweat. And maybe, just maybe pull off a match victory. The stories would come later:D

And if Earl were to throw one of those tantrums before losing, just imagine how that'd feel!!

Flex
 
Flex said:
I'd love to draw Earl Strickland, for example. Or Effren. Not that I'd win, far from it. But I'd like to win a few games, and make them sweat. And maybe, just maybe pull off a match victory. The stories would come later:D

And if Earl were to throw one of those tantrums before losing, just imagine how that'd feel!!

Flex
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That would be something kewl, and imagine all the experience and learning you would pick up.
 
I like the 9 off the break is a win. Its just another element to the game. Maybe I just like it because I cant see a good solution out. If you make the 9ball, and only the 9ball, and you want to spot it, you should be allowed to continue shooting. Thats the first thing. You made a ball, it should be your shot.

Any rule about BIH in the D is bad. It should always be ball in hand, anywhere. For 9ball, 8ball, etc... With BIH IN the D, it can actually be a good move to sewer. I dont like that. The CPA (Canadian APA) league I play in (8ball and 9ball), 8ball is BIH in the D only after the break. Thats tolerable I guess.

10ball does sound interesting though. I didnt realize how popular it was until I came to this forum (4 whole days ago). It is definitly tougher to make a ball off the break. I do love 9ball though. It just feels like when Im playing well, everything is going well, including my break. Rarely am I breaking like a monster, and find Im not 'feeling' it to run out. Keeping the other player sitting is good.

I cant believe how much support 8ball is getting though. Im liking it more that I used to. But I still cant see how people like it better than 9ball. Sure, you can make 8 balls in a row, and rattle the 9 and lose. Hey, dont rattle the 9. Make it. You can never ever let up in 9ball when two good players are playing.

I dont see 8ball as being a whole lot more 'fair'. You could rattle the 9ball, or you could kick off the horn onto the rail and make it very difficult for the other player to do anything with it. In 8ball, try running to the 8ball, missing, and leaving nothing for your opponent. At that point, playing any decent player, its no different than rattling a 9. IMHO.
 
DeadPoked said:
I played in the 8-ball tournament in Reno and saw the finals between Mike Davis and Edwin Montel. They were having issues with the rack because they could not get the two balls behind the 9 to stick, which resulted in Mike Davis making I believe 3 9-ball breaks in a race to 9.

Mike Davis being the good sportsman that he is did not care for this at all. He wanted to win but he wanted to win fairly, which he gained a lot of respect from me for that.

Oh yeah let me share a funny little story about what happened right before the finals. Mike Davis was practicing and he knocked the cue ball off the table. This guy that was there with the camera crew picks up the ball and grins and then throws the ball over-handed pretty hard right at Mike Davis' head. Mike catches the ball 1 handed about 6 inches away from his head.

I couldn't believe what an idiot that guy was. Mike Davis about to play for $10,000 and this guy about knocks him out with a cue ball. I turned to a guy sitting next to me and said pretty much what I said in the sentence before this one and Mike overheard me, he just laughed and shook his head.
Click to expand...


I saw that too and kinda wished Mike would have fired it right back at him.
 
Robbie said:
I dont see 8ball as being a whole lot more 'fair'. You could rattle the 9ball, or you could kick off the horn onto the rail and make it very difficult for the other player to do anything with it. In 8ball, try running to the 8ball, missing, and leaving nothing for your opponent. At that point, playing any decent player, its no different than rattling a 9. IMHO.
Click to expand...

There's a major difference in rattling the 8 ball as you mention. It's that if your opponent has a table full of balls he can very possibly hook you with a dead lock up safety, get ball in hand and run the balls out. And in 8 ball, the 8 needs to go in a specific pocket, goosing the ball really isn't an option as it is in 9 ball. Totally different game.

Flex
 
iacas said:
I'm still not sure why there's such a fuss over the "luck" of the 9-ball going. You can't eliminate luck. Luck determines whether the 4-ball just barely slides in front of the 2-ball on the break, blocking your first shot. Luck decides whether the shot you barely had around another ball bobbles in or bobbles out. Luck decides whether the chalk mark on the cue ball hits the object ball or misses. Luck decides a lot of things, even on the break.

I am in favor of keeping the "9 on the break == win" rule. It's exciting. And if the opponent is racking, it shouldn't happen due to rack rigging.
Click to expand...

ERIK,

I hate to tell you this, but LUCK has nothing to do with it...You really need to get yourself a copy of Racking Secrets by Joe Tucker. Then you will truly understand all of this discussion. It will make your stomach crawl when you see it. ;)
 
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The nineball on break, or th eightball on break i hate winning or losing this way, especially if there is some large frog skins on the line. Except this one time at the bar after leagues two guys thought they were some hot stuff and played teams for a few games then here it comes how about a hundred dollars, what shure what the hell, i'm breaking and i said eightball break a win right, Yeah, side pocket goes the eightball only time i loved the rule.......

Note: i love to have the last ball called too.....
 
TheConArtist said:
The nineball on break, or th eightball on break i hate winning or losing this way, especially if there is some large frog skins on the line. Except this one time at the bar after leagues two guys thought they were some hot stuff and played teams for a few games then here it comes how about a hundred dollars, what shure what the hell, i'm breaking and i said eightball break a win right, Yeah, side pocket goes the eightball only time i loved the rule.......

Note: i love to have the last ball called too.....
Click to expand...

The last time I won the handicapped 9 ball tournament at Chris's in Chicago, I won both the semi-finals with a 9 on the snap, doggone thing sprouted some hornet's wings and zinged into the upper left hand corner pocket, and also won the finals with the same shot. Only two 9 on the snaps that evening. Oh, and did I tell you it just made my day??!!!!

Flex
 
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