9 ball Spot Equivalents

C

cue4me

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been playing this guy 9-ball for several months and giving him the 6 ball and the breaks in races to 5. After some discussion we decided we should both play to the 9 ball and that we need to find an equivalent game based on games on the wire only. Do any of you have experience with this and what is reasonable? I'm thinking 6 for me and 3 or 4 for him or possibly 7 to 4 or 5.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Al
 
not enough info here to give a accurate race equivalent.

every situation is diff. as all players are diff.
 
cue4me said:
I've been playing this guy 9-ball for several months and giving him the 6 ball and the breaks in races to 5. After some discussion we decided we should both play to the 9 ball and that we need to find an equivalent game based on games on the wire only. Do any of you have experience with this and what is reasonable? I'm thinking 6 for me and 3 or 4 for him or possibly 7 to 4 or 5.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Al
Click to expand...
If it's a more or less friendly game and you want to have the spot more or less even, you can do this:

Decide on the total number of games in the nominal spot. 6-3 would be 9 and 7-5 would be 12. Let's say you start with 7-5 for 12. Pick the number above or below 12 as the alternate length. Since you mentioned 7-4, let's take 11.

Decide on when you want to change the spot in terms of dollars. Let's say it's $100 for a spot change. If a player is $100 or more ahead, you add one game to his number or subtract one game from the other player's number and subtract $100 from the net winnings. Whether you add or subtract depends on whether you have a total of 11 or 12 to start with. You go the direction that will get to the other one.

An example: You play at 7-5. You are already up $95 and win the next set for $20. You are $115 up so it's time to change. Since the total is 12, you have to adjust by subtracting and the new spot is 7-4. Your new net "ahead" is $15.

The upside is that the spot is guaranteed to be fair in the long run. The downside is the bookkeeping.
 
cue4me said:
I've been playing this guy 9-ball for several months and giving him the 6 ball and the breaks in races to 5. After some discussion we decided we should both play to the 9 ball and that we need to find an equivalent game based on games on the wire only. Do any of you have experience with this and what is reasonable? I'm thinking 6 for me and 3 or 4 for him or possibly 7 to 4 or 5.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Al
Click to expand...

If you give him 6-3, you are actually only accepting him getting to 2 (coz he wins @3). Getting to 6 before he gets to 3 is brutal.
 
cue4me said:
I've been playing this guy 9-ball for several months and giving him the 6 ball and the breaks in races to 5. After some discussion we decided we should both play to the 9 ball and that we need to find an equivalent game based on games on the wire only. Do any of you have experience with this and what is reasonable? I'm thinking 6 for me and 3 or 4 for him or possibly 7 to 4 or 5.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Al
Click to expand...
Start out with giving him a 2 game spot in a race to 5 - he has to win 3 games before you win 5. If you're still beating him, you can adjust to either 2 to 4 or 3 to 6. If he's beating you, you can lower it to a 1 game spot in a race to 4 or 2 to 6. In any case, I'd keep the races to no more than 5 or 6 (for you), which makes every game more meaningful.

For our weekly Monday night 9-ball handicap tournaments, we use a 2 to 5 spot for our AA players vs our B players. Although there is a considerable difference in skill level between those rankings, it is a brutally tough spot for the AA players, particularly if you happen to lose one of the first 2 games.
 
I appreciate your thoughts on this. I'm also of the opinion that my opponent going to only two or three games is too short and he should have to win at lest four. Per Mr. Jewett's scenario of changing the spot after one of us gets ahead a certain amount of money, I think if I'm ahead I should add a game to my side rather than taking one from his side. If the race gets too short then he can win with a couple of lucky shots and a 9 on the break.

Al
 
I give my 9 year old daughter the wild 4, and she ROBS me. If I don't B&R, she wins almost every time.:angry: Lost $10 bucks last night at $1 a game.









On second thought, I would have paid 3x that for the 2 hours I got to spend with her shooting pool....I think I ROBBED her...
 
cue4me said:
.. If the race gets too short then he can win with a couple of lucky shots and a 9 on the break.

Al
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Well, yes, but.... Both of you can get lucky. It's perhaps a larger part of his game. But if you set a total games of 11-12, and it gets to 9-2, then maybe he really, really needs the spot. At that point he would be stuck about $400 given the scenario above and he would have lost $100 at 9-3.
 
cue4me said:
I appreciate your thoughts on this. I'm also of the opinion that my opponent going to only two or three games is too short and he should have to win at lest four. Per Mr. Jewett's scenario of changing the spot after one of us gets ahead a certain amount of money, I think if I'm ahead I should add a game to my side rather than taking one from his side. If the race gets too short then he can win with a couple of lucky shots and a 9 on the break.

Al
Click to expand...
The fair spot is the one in which your opponent, although clearly the weaker player, has as much chance to win the session as you do. It also places more pressure on you to have to play better. Sounds like you're wanting a match where you have a dead lock.
 
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jokrswylde said:
I give my 9 year old daughter the wild 4, and she ROBS me. If I don't B&R, she wins almost every time.:angry: Lost $10 bucks last night at $1 a game.









On second thought, I would have paid 3x that for the 2 hours I got to spend with her shooting pool....I think I ROBBED her...
Click to expand...

Any time you get to spend with the kids on the pool table is time well spent. Look at it as a little extra allowance for the week.

ChrisinNC said:
The fair spot is the one in which your opponent, although clearly the weaker player, has as much chance to win the session as you do. It also places more pressure on you to have to play better. Sounds like you're wanting a match where you have a dead lock.
Click to expand...

I'm looking for a fair game that I want to keep fair with game spots as opposed to ball spots. That way we have to both play to the end. I don't mind adding games to my end, but just don't want him to have to win less than 4. I may have to re-think that and go down to 3 on his end. Otherwise the sets may just get too long.
 
cue4me said:
I've been playing this guy 9-ball for several months and giving him the 6 ball and the breaks in races to 5. After some discussion we decided we should both play to the 9 ball and that we need to find an equivalent game based on games on the wire only. Do any of you have experience with this and what is reasonable? I'm thinking 6 for me and 3 or 4 for him or possibly 7 to 4 or 5.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Al
Click to expand...

I do this with a friend in 10 ball:

We play by-the-game, no sets etc....winner break. It's real cheap.....


I give him first break and 7-out.
If he wins that game, spot is adjusted to 8-out.
If he wins that game spot is last 2.
If he wins that game we play even until he loses a game.

After he loses a game the spot starts over at 7-out.
If I win that game, he gets 6-out.
If i win that game he gets 5-out...... etc..... etc....

Once I lose a game the spot ball spot goes up.....

Works very well and keeps the game even.

Hardest part is determining the starting point.

If it's truly a friendly match for cheap it shouldn't matter if you have to give up the nuts at first until the fair spot is found with adjustment.

Also, you mentioned that you didn't want the sets to get to long....... another reason to do the above.

Btw, what is the usual score in the races to 5 when giving him the 6/break?

Rake
 
With how you are spotting him I am going to assume it is a C playing an A. So with races it is tuff because for quick matches a lot can happen the general idea is that for every rack he needs you need two and a half racks Strange number but it sounds right for some reason. But if you round up the two and a half a 3-1 race just sounds awful but a 2-1 race sounds like you are beating up on him. When you get to short sets I like the sound of a 5-2 race. When you get to the longer races is when you can round up. A 10-4 race sounds great and the next would be a 12.5-5 race but a 13-5 race is one I would still take.
 
AG_DeadPool said:
With how you are spotting him I am going to assume it is a C playing an A. So with races it is tuff because for quick matches a lot can happen the general idea is that for every rack he needs you need two and a half racks Strange number but it sounds right for some reason. But if you round up the two and a half a 3-1 race just sounds awful but a 2-1 race sounds like you are beating up on him. When you get to short sets I like the sound of a 5-2 race. When you get to the longer races is when you can round up. A 10-4 race sounds great and the next would be a 12.5-5 race but a 13-5 race is one I would still take.
Click to expand...

The op is gonna have a very hard time finding a "true" even game if the race is to 5.

Like you, I believe quick matches are no good. At that point I had rather go by the game or race to At least 9+.

If he is a true "A" level it is odd that he would not want the longer races. Especially if the other player is a true "C" level player.
 
You can give up the breaks to keep the game spot closer too. If he breaks you can never break and run or play combos after the break. You can also give all the breaks with ball in hand after the break.
 
SBC said:
You can give up the breaks to keep the game spot closer too. If he breaks you can never break and run or play combos after the break. You can also give all the breaks with ball in hand after the break.
Click to expand...

Depending on how the other player breaks, the break might not be an advantage for him.
 
''weeeeeeee need to find and equivalent game''.

cue4me said:
I've been playing this guy 9-ball for several months and giving him the 6 ball and the breaks in races to 5. After some discussion we decided we should both play to the 9 ball and that we need to find an equivalent game based on games on the wire only. Do any of you have experience with this and what is reasonable? I'm thinking 6 for me and 3 or 4 for him or possibly 7 to 4 or 5.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Al
Click to expand...

Your in a bartering situation now.

Matching up by games is completely different and better for you if you don't give away the farm. I always let my opponent ''speak first'' with what he felt was a fair spot, then go from there. He's the one who ''spoke up first'' I assume, because of adjusting the situation. Remember, the old timers always spent more time making a game than playing it.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If it's a more or less friendly game and you want to have the spot more or less even, you can do this:

Decide on the total number of games in the nominal spot. 6-3 would be 9 and 7-5 would be 12. Let's say you start with 7-5 for 12. Pick the number above or below 12 as the alternate length. Since you mentioned 7-4, let's take 11.

Decide on when you want to change the spot in terms of dollars. Let's say it's $100 for a spot change. If a player is $100 or more ahead, you add one game to his number or subtract one game from the other player's number and subtract $100 from the net winnings. Whether you add or subtract depends on whether you have a total of 11 or 12 to start with. You go the direction that will get to the other one.

An example: You play at 7-5. You are already up $95 and win the next set for $20. You are $115 up so it's time to change. Since the total is 12, you have to adjust by subtracting and the new spot is 7-4. Your new net "ahead" is $15.

The upside is that the spot is guaranteed to be fair in the long run. The downside is the bookkeeping.
Click to expand...

Another way to say what Bob is describing here is just move up or down using the matchups in chart R6 here. You can choose a different match chart if you prefer longer or shorter races.

We got the ideas for these match charts from things Bob used to do for the NPL (National Pool league) as long as a couple decades ago
 

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