90/90..mikjari asking

90/90 system

I talked to Ron Vitalho (?) twice about his 90/90 system a week apart and he could not correctly help me aim certain shots/banks. I tried hard for two weeks doing just what he said but the shots were not accurate. He said he actually had to be on the table with me to show me how the different shots were made and couldn't do it on the telephone. He could verbalize some basic shots that were easy standard aims or banks but not nearly all of them.
I really want to use the system but I just haven't grasped the basis of the system. I know its simple to some of you but its confusing to me. Some shots were not even close to being on line and others were just a tad off but they still wouldn't go and others were dead center. Whats up with that?
 
PastPrime said:
I talked to Ron Vitalho (?) twice about his 90/90 system a week apart and he could not correctly help me aim certain shots/banks. I tried hard for two weeks doing just what he said but the shots were not accurate. He said he actually had to be on the table with me to show me how the different shots were made and couldn't do it on the telephone. He could verbalize some basic shots that were easy standard aims or banks but not nearly all of them.
I really want to use the system but I just haven't grasped the basis of the system. I know its simple to some of you but its confusing to me. Some shots were not even close to being on line and others were just a tad off but they still wouldn't go and others were dead center. Whats up with that?
Click to expand...

I'm probably not any further along than you, but the first thing I did was to make sure my bridge length and pivot were consistent. I also visited spiderweb.comm's blog for additional info. Lots of good stuff there.

Mike
 
PastPrime said:
I talked to Ron Vitalho (?) twice about his 90/90 system a week apart and he could not correctly help me aim certain shots/banks. I tried hard for two weeks doing just what he said but the shots were not accurate. He said he actually had to be on the table with me to show me how the different shots were made and couldn't do it on the telephone. He could verbalize some basic shots that were easy standard aims or banks but not nearly all of them.
I really want to use the system but I just haven't grasped the basis of the system. I know its simple to some of you but its confusing to me. Some shots were not even close to being on line and others were just a tad off but they still wouldn't go and others were dead center. Whats up with that?
Click to expand...


Study the diagram. Look at the red line that goes from the center of the OB to the pocket. Notice that it enters just inside of the right edge of the OB - as seen from behind the CB. Aim at that point with the cue aimed at the same corresponding point (just inside of the right edge) on the CB (like the diagram).

What is not shown shown in the diagram is that you then pivot from your bridge to the center of the CB for a center CB hit. This results in the CB traveling toward the left side of of the center of the OB to make contact/impact at the point where the red line exits the OB just inside of the left edge of the OB - the OB then travels along the red line to the pocket.

For a thick hit close to a straight in shot, the red line will enter the OB closer to it's center. Your cue will start by aiming at the same corresponding point on the CB, close to the center of the CB, in a line to the point on the OB.

You then pivot from your bridge a little bit or a small angle/arc to the center of the CB.


For a thin cut ( up to 90 degrees) , the red line will enter the OB at the right edge of the OB. Your cue will start by aiming at the same corresponding point on the CB, the right edge of the CB, in a line to the point (right edge) on the OB.

You then pivot from your bridge, a large angle/arc to the center of the CB.

What I don't like about this is that if this works for a distance of 2 feet betweeen the OB and CB, it will not work when the OB is 8 feet away - for the angle at 2 feet continues to travel away from the OB at all distances over 2 feet.

Kinda like what I don't understand about CTE as hitherto defined.


90-90_align.png
 
Lamas,

Your cue's starting position for all of the angles you mentioned is 1 tip inside the "inside edge" of the CB. Your cue will correspond to "split the difference" (which the center of the tip is on the inside edge of OB, half on - half off), 90 (same position on the OB), half (OB center), or reverse-90 (opposite position on the OB).

Your pivot is the same for all of the above. If a 90/90 pivot results in a shot coming short, just 90/half it and it'll go. When you're playing a game and the ball is 5' away, who knows where that red line really is.

Technically, you can shoot every shot with a 90/90 alignment but you must accentuate the pivot on thinner shots. That's developed over time.

The information you posted above isn't correct. Not saying it won't work (it might be perfect for all I know); however, it's not the 90/90 system as it's taught. It sounds like the 90/Lamas system ;)

Dave
 
Mikjary said:
LAMas,

Have you tried the 90/half ball and 90/reverse aiming points yet?
Click to expand...

Yes.

This system reverses the 90/ and works better for all shots at all distances. It is similar to the double distance and ghost ball though.

The points of aim and contact are the same or the obverse of the 90/90
From my previous post:
How does the "contact-point-to-contact-point" or "parallel-lines" aiming system work?

from jsp:

The first step is to draw a line going from the center of the intended pocket to the center of the object ball (purple dashed line). Extending this line to the opposite edge of the object ball gives you the object ball contact point (blue dot). To find the contact point of the cue ball, you simply just reflect ... as shown in the upper right portion of the figure.

Once you have the location of the cue ball CP, the next step is the draw a line through the object ball CP and the cue ball CP (green line). Then, you just simply imagine the line parallel to that line that goes through the center of the cue ball (orange line). This new line is what should direct your aim, since geometry tells you that this line connects the centers of both the cue ball and ghost ball. To make the shot, you just stroke through this line (black arrow)..."

jsp_parallel_contact.jpg
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Lamas,

Your cue's starting position for all of the angles you mentioned is 1 tip inside the "inside edge" of the CB. Your cue will correspond to "split the difference" (which the center of the tip is on the inside edge of OB, half on - half off), 90 (same position on the OB), half (OB center), or reverse-90 (opposite position on the OB).

Your pivot is the same for all of the above. If a 90/90 pivot results in a shot coming short, just 90/half it and it'll go. When you're playing a game and the ball is 5' away, who knows where that red line really is.

Technically, you can shoot every shot with a 90/90 alignment but you must accentuate the pivot on thinner shots. That's developed over time.

The information you posted above isn't correct. Not saying it won't work (it might be perfect for all I know); however, it's not the 90/90 system as it's taught. It sounds like the 90/Lamas system ;)

Dave
Click to expand...

"...but you must accentuate the pivot on thinner shots. That's developed over time."

If this is what you must also do for CTE, then I agree with this revelation.

Thanks.
 
90/90

I wish I could show all you guys how easy this system is. You can shoot the whole table 90/90. And this is why..

When the balls are more than 2 diamonds apart, now I`am going to tell you something that no one on this site or any of the pro coaches ever mentioned.IS that all shots that are more than 2 diamonds makes the shot 2 to one cut...
In other words if you put a ball on the far spot and the cb on dia. 2 a spot shot, aim it 90/90 and pivot to center and notice that you turned half a cb but the cue stick is aiming at the other side of the ob ball...Which means you got twice the amount of cut, so that is 2 to 1... And that is why you can shoot the entire table 90/90 or center to center and pivot a half tip for english...
Please do not debate with me I spent five years stedy developing the methd of teaching the system...It is not my system just my way of using different terms and things to aim at...

I simcerly hope you all have a better understanding of the 90/90.
Sorry if there are type o`s

Regards RonV.
PS. Listen to Spidy he knows It well..
 
LAMas said:
"...but you must accentuate the pivot on thinner shots. That's developed over time."

If this is what you must also do for CTE, then I agree with this revelation.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Totally different. That's the same as shooting a thick-shot pivot on a 50-degree thin-pivot break shot (or something). Sure, you can make balls by doing that, but you're going outside of the confines of the system. I could prob make a 90-reverse-90 shot by aligning 90/90 with a 1" bridge length - but why would ya?
 
RonV said:
I wish I could show all you guys how easy this system is. You can shoot the whole table 90/90. And this is why..

When the balls are more than 2 diamonds apart, now I`am going to tell you something that no one on this site or any of the pro coaches ever mentioned.IS that all shots that are more than 2 diamonds makes the shot 2 to one cut...
In other words if you put a ball on the far spot and the cb on dia. 2 a spot shot, aim it 90/90 and pivot to center and notice that you turned half a cb but the cue stick is aiming at the other side of the ob ball...Which means you got twice the amount of cut, so that is 2 to 1... And that is why you can shoot the entire table 90/90 or center to center and pivot a half tip for english...
Please do not debate with me I spent five years stedy developing the methd of teaching the system...It is not my system just my way of using different terms and things to aim at...

I simcerly hope you all have a better understanding of the 90/90.
Sorry if there are type o`s

Regards RonV.
PS. Listen to Spidy he knows It well..
Click to expand...

Ron,

I set up the spot shot and see what you've explained, but I'm not sure if I understand the meaning of it. Are you saying that how we use the pivot determines how many shots we can make with 90/90?

Thanks,
Mike
 
Mikjary said:
Ron,

I set up the spot shot and see what you've explained, but I'm not sure if I understand the meaning of it. Are you saying that how we use the pivot determines how many shots we can make with 90/90?

Thanks,
Mike
Click to expand...

That's correct.
 
Shortening my bridge on the 90/half and reverse is probably not the right approach then. I guess I'll try to 'flatten' out my pivot. I just put new rails on the table. Time to test 'em. :grin:
Appreciate the info RonV and Spidey.
 
I don't conciously change my pivot. Maybe I do by feel, but not knowingly. The aiming point is different as the shots are further away. Instead of shortening my bridge I will work on changing my pivot for shots two diamonds or less. I don't change it for longer shots.
 
Yes, I have used it on certain shots. I found it works best on the fuller hits, but like the ghost ball method you have to estimate your contact point. I don't use it on the thinner cuts.
 
pivot point

Your diagram is fine...THE PIVOT POINT NEVER CHANGES, IT IS ALWAYS IN THE BRIDGE HAND OPEN OR CLOSED BRIDGE...

The only thing that matters is that when you make the pivot it is always as close to the c b as possible. If you pull your bidge hand 5 feet from the CB and had the tip of the stick 1/4 " from the CB it would not matter and the pivot would still be in your bridge hand,,, If you start your pivot 1" or more away from the C B the cue tip will be in the wrong spot of the OB and creating a miss. You can aim all shots 90/90/ or ctc 1/2/ tip pivot, from a semi stright cut to a 1/2 ball cut as long as they have distance between them..A stright in cut you put th CB between the center and edge and the tip to the edge of the OB pivot to center and hit it...

When the balls are a 1/2/ ball and 2 feet or less apart you must aim 90 to center of the OB... After that it is 90/90 reverse...

Have fun, try it it all works I promise..Or your money back...Just a joke...

Ron V.
 
RonV,
I understand what you are sayin. but how do you put your bridge 5 feet behind the CB - sarcasm or hyperbole?

Like dr._dave infers, it looks like you need to move your bridge back for far shots on paper, but after a point (2 feet?) the differences are insignificant.

Thanks for your insights and instruction.
 
5ft.

If you don`t understand when I`am trying to make a point what can I say to your ?...

And as far as Dr, Dave he does not unstderstand the system and does`nt want to and I doubt that he will reply to any of this...I have made myself crystal clear...I have given you enough free information so that you can try all of it...A friend of mine told me not to do this because they wont appreciate it and maybe he was right...I`am trying to make the game easier to learn..There are no secrets to this game it`s just that many greats could not teach it..That does`nt take away from there greatness ..It just means some of them can`t and some don`t ever analyze how they play...

I learned from an old wise man that," people do not ask the right questions " and that`s why they learn very slow...So take heed in that quote and think before you ask a question...And say to your self...Is this what I really want know or am I asking a silly ???..

I have given 35 free lessons all over the world as far as Singapore and 99% of themm got it.So if I can teach it over the phone that makes it pretty easy to learn ...

This will be my last post.I truly hope some of you got it...

All The Best
RonV
 
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