Absolutely
All pivots (Air or Manual) take us back to the center of the cue ball.
The longer the bridge, the shorter the pivot.
randyg
90/90 pivot
- Thread starter Neil
- Start date
Absolutely
All pivots (Air or Manual) take us back to the center of the cue ball.
The longer the bridge, the shorter the pivot.
randyg
And the shorter the pivot the thicker the hit.
SO........ A specifically defined 1/2 tip parallel offset pivoted back to center based on a 6" bridge from the cue ball would yield the exact same result for the same specifically defined 1/2 tip offset pivoted back to center based on an 18" bridge from the cue ball?
Is that consistent with what you are saying?
Both sides are correct in this discussion and they are both wrong as it depends on semantics of the definition of "does not matter."
Many of you guys are fighting a 15yr old bs fight and the reason why I quit posting in this cesspool area is because the two sides of intelligent people completely lack the language needed to properly communicate.
The math guys think of the bridge as a rotational pivot (point) versus a fulcrum and thinking of the cue as a lever that rotates about rather than around.
The bridge length would be all that matters if you viewed the bridge as a point of rotation, but it's not. If that were the case, you could pivot and hit the OB head-on flush or miss it completely. Instead, manual pivots must be made with the OB vertical plane in 3D space as the primal arc, not the bridge arc. In that fashion, the tip of the cue is what matters as what is behind that works itself out on its own. While focusing on the OB vertical plane, the CB "gets in the way" and you merely stop at center.
Therefore, there is an effective bridge length "band" of distance that works, based on offset.
If you bring the tip right up to the face of the CB and pivot with 90/90, the tip should never dip-away from the ball as you arc. If it does, you're arcing away from the OB plane.
Disclaimer: The tip at the CB face is how Ron teaches the swivel (from the hip). The rest is my personal dissertation about pivot aiming, bridge lengths and tip arcs.
Many of you guys are fighting a 15yr old bs fight and the reason why I quit posting in this cesspool area is because the two sides of intelligent people completely lack the language needed to properly communicate.
The math guys think of the bridge as a rotational pivot (point) versus a fulcrum and thinking of the cue as a lever that rotates about rather than around.
The bridge length would be all that matters if you viewed the bridge as a point of rotation, but it's not. If that were the case, you could pivot and hit the OB head-on flush or miss it completely. Instead, manual pivots must be made with the OB vertical plane in 3D space as the primal arc, not the bridge arc. In that fashion, the tip of the cue is what matters as what is behind that works itself out on its own. While focusing on the OB vertical plane, the CB "gets in the way" and you merely stop at center.
Therefore, there is an effective bridge length "band" of distance that works, based on offset.
If you bring the tip right up to the face of the CB and pivot with 90/90, the tip should never dip-away from the ball as you arc. If it does, you're arcing away from the OB plane.
Disclaimer: The tip at the CB face is how Ron teaches the swivel (from the hip). The rest is my personal dissertation about pivot aiming, bridge lengths and tip arcs.
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Not to pick apart a man trying to help but Neil please note you say the bridge is in line with the edge to edge. Then you open your bridge hand to show the V.....But the V is not the bridge area it is over the middle finger knuckle area. this seems to place the approx pivot/bridge location somewhere between edge and center cue ball. It seems to me but it is videoed so I could be seeing it a bit different than at site.
Yes. A 1/2 tip is a 1/2 tip. Just a shorter distance up front.
Just a level on a fulcrum.
But now that we are talking about it I am going to test that out tomorrow.
I might be full of it, or right, I will find out.
randyg
So, basically this system is so confusing even the ones advocating and showing it are wrong ?
Is this guy wrong too ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8IesgEXbvU
I tried all that . Some shots I made. Some I missed. Some really handcuffed my elbow.
Is this guy wrong too ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8IesgEXbvU
I tried all that . Some shots I made. Some I missed. Some really handcuffed my elbow.
I did my double check last night after having a 'discussion' with Neil.
I asked you about the CTE pivot but it was actually the 90/90 pivot that we were 'discussing'.
It's not about the distance the tip travels. It's about the angle of the cue when the tip travels the same distance for different bridge/fulcrum distances from the cue ball.
It's much easier to see with the nearly 1/2 ball 90/90 type pivot vs the 1/2" CTE type pivot.
Agreed, the bridge length does not matter, so long as it isn't the rotational pivot point.
This!
Earlier Randy said "The longer the bridge, the shorter the pivot.". Which is correct... A longer bridge means the tip moves the same distance but the angle change is shorter.
I'm wondering what he meant by "shorter" if shorter was not referring to the angle change.
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No, both pivots going back to center and the longer bridge will cause a thicker hit on the object ball.
Amazing. I'll bet not one of the naysayers trying to pick Neil's posts and video apart can make 10 shots with 90/90. Doesn't keep these poser experts from nitpicking though.
There are words for certain types of illogic & there is a phrase of a joke for when one assumes things. Then there is series of words that are simply not allowed on AZB.
Then there's this from Urban Dictionary
troll
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument
Then there's this from Urban Dictionary
troll
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument
Clearly made a home-made animation that shows how this works from years ago. I wonder if he still has it. The basis was proving where the cue touched wasn't defined as a pivot point (as if a nail was through the cue).
It looked like an Atari animation, but was perfect.
It looked like an Atari animation, but was perfect.
Good to know you recognize yourself.
I can't believe he posted that. Out of touch with reality. Well go ahead English and prove that you can sink 10 shots with 90/90 or CTE using a manual pivot. I've been told by several people that know you and have seen you at the table that you can't sink 3 balls in a row. Let's see your video. Even better, if you agree to it, I'll set up the 10 shots and video myself doing it, then you agree to do the same shots. You have to agree that if you fail to put up the video and/or fail to make the same 10 shots without missing, you'll donate $250 to the Mosconi Cup Team and never post here again.
Now that it actually means something, let's see you step up to the challenge. Obviously, 8Pack and Banks have ridiculed my playing ability so you shouldn't have to worry. What's the chance that I can hit 10 shots in a row on video?
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As is the case so often you missed the point. It's not about whether or not you or I or anyone else can make 10 shots with 90/90. It's about your continually personally insultive modus operandi toward everyone that is not in accordance with you.
As to you talking to several people that have seen ENGLISH! play that is impossible as no one that knows me or has seen me play knows my AZB handle.
But there you go again trying to insult someone.
I've had my say regarding your insultive modus operandi & I've responded to your crap here.
You certainly do not warrant any further expenditure from me.
So Go ahead with another of your childish totally predictable ever increasingly insultive responses. You just don't see the reality that you prove with so many of your posts.
Conceited Arrogance can not see oneself because it never looks in the mirror.
Translation of English's Post:
"When the rubber hits the road and I'd have to put my money where my mouth is, I reluctantly have to admit I can't accept your challenge and admit I can't hit 10 shots using a CTE or 90/90 manual pivot even though I somehow have felt qualified to continuously comment on these aiming systems."
I think that sums it up quite accurately. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
"When the rubber hits the road and I'd have to put my money where my mouth is, I reluctantly have to admit I can't accept your challenge and admit I can't hit 10 shots using a CTE or 90/90 manual pivot even though I somehow have felt qualified to continuously comment on these aiming systems."
I think that sums it up quite accurately. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Reminds me of the time Scott Lee made a similar challenge & when I responded with a fair challenge he backed down & rightfully said that neither one would prove the topic at hand regardless of who Won or Lost the bet.
Either the different distances of the bridge from the CB yields a different angle from the pivot to center or it does not.
Anyone can go to the table & make there own determinations.
PS The general readership of AZB does not need anything interpreted for them. I'm quite sure that they can read & most can probably read between the lines too.
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