A concerning change in average tournament payouts.

[u12armresl]

The new thing (for the past several years) is high entry fee tournaments with large calcuttas and 0 money added.

You get 100 people putting up $200 (we're not talking pro level, shortstop and below) and then they go for incredibly high amounts in the calcutta.
The payouts are spread well down the line, but without the calcutta money, you will need to place pretty high to make some funds.

The days of Texas Express Tour are long over, where we can put up $50 or $75 and there are guarantee adds to the pot.

Do you see this trend staying?

 

[billiards_watch]

Pooling everyone's money. Raise the fees so you don't have to add money.

The allure of any tournament are those big ass letters on the flyer that says.......Added money -or- Money added

 

[Island Drive]

If the TD and the house come up with a win/win for both $ides that's what's hoped for BUT.
Most events are owners ANNUAL decisions to do something for their room/players/town/leagues.
It's more of More is all, and the weekend regulars/are/crowded out.... the rooms locked up with matches.
And hopefully the room owner gets a hotel cut .

 

[ShootingArts]

What I have often seen is green's fees and Surprise!! The added money and greens fees add up to exactly the same thing. Very often people specify an added money amount that is connected to the number of entries. Obvious a venue doesn't want to add thousands and nobody show but when the greens fees and added money are exactly the same it seems like a shell game.

Big events that occur four times a year or less, I think the people putting on the event should try to find some outside sponsors. If added money is claimed it should come from somebody besides the pool players.

Calcuttas have became another bit of BS. The top players can rarely buy themselves in a big event. Even if they can buy half, they may be looking at five thousand or more, jumping the entry fee from $1000 to $6000! Something is out of whack when we see half million dollar calcuttas! Outside gamblers who don't even play pool are looking at the favorable odds on their money compared to much gambling and piling in.

I prefer side pots. Everybody pays the same to get in.

Hu

 

[iusedtoberich]

counterpoint: I think added money at the local level is stupid. When you gamble with someone, it’s your money vs mine, and the house gets table time. Does your opponent give you odds on the money? That’s what a tournament with added money is.

It’s also a hassle for the room to run.

Depending on how much banger business the room regularly sees, the tournament might even cost the room money due to less tables for them.

 

[JPB2]

If the trend continues it is a sign that the game is healthy. Amateur golf has no added money. No cash payouts either. I have heard of big calcuttas in golf but don’t run in those circles. I am sure some big gambling at member guest or pro member events. But I dunno. Poker is subtracted money- all money comes from buy ins, unless something changed. No shortage of players buying in. Obviously in poker more have a chance to cash. But no handicaps either.

I think the MOB type tournaments for ams are the trend. High buy in Fargo capped events with side pots.( calcuttas are not tolerated everywhere). And a room might benefit by having players who can afford the travel and buy in and might buy a cocktail. Better deal than adding money and having people come for that- if you want the money to stay more local.

 

[fastone371]

What I have often seen is green's fees and Surprise!! The added money and greens fees add up to exactly the same thing. Very often people specify an added money amount that is connected to the number of entries. Obvious a venue doesn't want to add thousands and nobody show but when the greens fees and added money are exactly the same it seems like a shell game.

Big events that occur four times a year or less, I think the people putting on the event should try to find some outside sponsors. If added money is claimed it should come from somebody besides the pool players.

Calcuttas have became another bit of BS. The top players can rarely buy themselves in a big event. Even if they can buy half, they may be looking at five thousand or more, jumping the entry fee from $1000 to $6000! Something is out of whack when we see half million dollar calcuttas! Outside gamblers who don't even play pool are looking at the favorable odds on their money compared to much gambling and piling in.

I prefer side pots. Everybody pays the same to get in.

Hu

Its getting crazy how many people show just to gamble in the calcutta even for small tournaments. I got into a bidding war for myself with a guy just to gamble and not play pool. After about 10 raises I could see he was determined to buy me so I bought half of myself back. Ended up in the hot seat, it was going to be hours before the finals so I made him sit around a watch the tournament, told him to let me know when they were playing the B side hotseat match and to call me so I could get back to venue. My wife and I went for nice dinner and a walk by the lake front. I figured if he was getting paid for my efforts he might as well add some effort of his own.

 

[garczar]

The new thing (for the past several years) is high entry fee tournaments with large calcuttas and 0 money added.

You get 100 people putting up $200 (we're not talking pro level, shortstop and below) and then they go for incredibly high amounts in the calcutta.
The payouts are spread well down the line, but without the calcutta money, you will need to place pretty high to make some funds.

The days of Texas Express Tour are long over, where we can put up $50 or $75 and there are guarantee adds to the pot.

Do you see this trend staying?

Its been this way for a while now. IMO the days of cheap entry fee's and big added $ are over. Few room/bar owners make enough profit to add much money. Hell, with prices being what they are many places are just making a tad over break-even money. One place that still adds good $ is Dan Tull, owner of Shooter's in Olathe. At their last event in June he added $8000, six to the 9b and two to the 1p. Great room btw.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

Its been this way for a while now. IMO the days of cheap entry fee's and big added $ are over. Few room/bar owners make enough profit to add much money. Hell, with prices being what they are many places are just making a tad over break-even money. One place that still adds good $ is Dan Tull, owner of Shooter's in Olathe. At their last event in June he added $8000, six to the 9b and two to the 1p. Great room btw.

With the amount of unwatchable pool people feel the need to put on the Internet, you would think getting sponsorship for a stream isn't that difficult. Way easier than the past.

 

[garczar]

With the amount of unwatchable pool people feel the need to put on the Internet, you would think getting sponsorship for a stream isn't that difficult. Way easier than the past.

What i posted has nothing to do with streams. That's a whole other deal. I'm only referring to room owners/promoters adding money to payouts. Most, if not all, stream revenue goes to the streamer and rarely has any impact on the event's payout. Not saying it never happens but its not common.

 

[Mensabum]

What I have often seen is green's fees and Surprise!! The added money and greens fees add up to exactly the same thing. Very often people specify an added money amount that is connected to the number of entries. Obvious a venue doesn't want to add thousands and nobody show but when the greens fees and added money are exactly the same it seems like a shell game.

Big events that occur four times a year or less, I think the people putting on the event should try to find some outside sponsors. If added money is claimed it should come from somebody besides the pool players.

Calcuttas have became another bit of BS. The top players can rarely buy themselves in a big event. Even if they can buy half, they may be looking at five thousand or more, jumping the entry fee from $1000 to $6000! Something is out of whack when we see half million dollar calcuttas! Outside gamblers who don't even play pool are looking at the favorable odds on their money compared to much gambling and piling in.

I prefer side pots. Everybody pays the same to get in.

Hu

Tournaments.

 

[Island Drive]

The first day of play SAT. in a week end event is usually a minimum 16 hr day for a TD.
They finish up late, usually Sunday am.
Next day, which is already here you start late morning.
You finish usually around dark/or dinner time, or LATER.

 

[ShootingArts]

The first day of play SAT. in a week end event is usually a minimum 16 hr day for a TD.
They finish up late, usually Sunday am.
Next day, which is already here you start late morning.
You finish usually around dark/or dinner time, or LATER.

Around here it is usually the brutal wee hours of Monday morning after maybe starting Friday night, definitely all day Saturday and Sunday starting at nine or ten AM. Couple that with way too much waiting around and tournaments are grueling. I understand from the players' standpoint but after all that prelim they often agree to a split.

I grab a short nap and come to the hall at midnight to see the final still a few hours away and then they don't play! I do understand it has became an endurance match more than a pool game. Still after playing this long, finish the event!

Hu

 

[Mensabum]

Around here it is usually the brutal wee hours of Monday morning after maybe starting Friday night, definitely all day Saturday and Sunday starting at nine or ten AM. Couple that with way too much waiting around and tournaments are grueling. I understand from the players' standpoint but after all that prelim they often agree to a split.

I grab a short nap and come to the hall at midnight to see the final still a few hours away and then they don't play! I do understand it has became an endurance match more than a pool game. Still after playing this long, finish the event!

Hu

If I'm gonna stick someplace that long, it's not gonna be for some petty tournament pot. For those long ass hours?? I never wanna work that hard. I'd rather be downstairs in a 9 straight hour ring game, losing my ass but having a ball , than sitting around for six hours waiting for some TD to call my number.
Ugh.

 

[Bob Jewett]

The first day of play SAT. in a week end event is usually a minimum 16 hr day for a TD.
They finish up late, usually Sunday am.
Next day, which is already here you start late morning.
You finish usually around dark/or dinner time, or LATER.

There are two explanations for tournaments running so late. The room owner is squeezing food and drink money out of those present and wants the agony to continue as long as possible. Or, the TD is as stupid as a stump -- it's a main part of his job to finish at a reasonable hour.

 

[MitchAlsup]

The math of zero-sums games seems to be above many peoples math skill level !

 

[fastone371]

Our local tournaments typically say calcutta at 9 tournament play at 10, it takes 3 hours to get thru the calcutta. If they got thru it in the hour they planned we could start 2 hours earlier.

 

[ShootingArts]

If I'm gonna stick someplace that long, it's not gonna be for some petty tournament pot. For those long ass hours?? I never wanna work that hard. I'd rather be downstairs in a 9 straight hour ring game, losing my ass but having a ball , than sitting around for six hours waiting for some TD to call my number.
Ugh.

It is surprising how few people are gambling while waiting to be called.

Our local tournaments typically say calcutta at 9 tournament play at 10, it takes 3 hours to get thru the calcutta. If they got thru it in the hour they planned we could start 2 hours earlier.

I have seen six or eight hour calcuttas! Typical start time reads, calcutta starts at seven, tournament immediately after calcutta. We have a guy that I think is the world champion calcutta auctioneer putting together the quarter million dollar plus calcuttas but it takes time, lots of time. Somebody else doesn't get a fourth the money, or take a fourth the time!

In fairness, I quit going to these events so I don't know if what I am saying is accurate today.

Hu

 

[fastone371]

It is surprising how few people are gambling while waiting to be called.





I have seen six or eight hour calcuttas! Typical start time reads, calcutta starts at seven, tournament immediately after calcutta. We have a guy that I think is the world champion calcutta auctioneer putting together the quarter million dollar plus calcuttas but it takes time, lots of time. Somebody else doesn't get a fourth the money, or take a fourth the time!

In fairness, I quit going to these events so I don't know if what I am saying is accurate today.

Hu

You cant shoot pool while the calcutta is going on otherwise I wouldn't mind so much.

 

[sixpack]

The new thing (for the past several years) is high entry fee tournaments with large calcuttas and 0 money added.

You get 100 people putting up $200 (we're not talking pro level, shortstop and below) and then they go for incredibly high amounts in the calcutta.
The payouts are spread well down the line, but without the calcutta money, you will need to place pretty high to make some funds.

The days of Texas Express Tour are long over, where we can put up $50 or $75 and there are guarantee adds to the pot.

Do you see this trend staying?

In the old days the added money was to get players there because they would drink alcohol and buy food. Players don’t do that as much. I’ve seen tournaments where the house adds a bunch of money and the top 4 players or so drink water or coffee the whole tournament and then go across the street to McDonalds to get some food to save a couple of bucks from eating at the bar/pool hall.

I think this is just many of the owners not seeing a return on added money.