A differant greatest thread

A lot of good examples so far but I have to go with this one. Pretty much everything so far is debatable to some degree.

Except Man o' War was actually voted the horse of the century over Secretariat.

My vote goes to Secretariat though.
 
It's not without controversy, but I'll throw another one in the mix--Bobby Fischer as greatest chess player ever.
 
Except Man o' War was actually voted the horse of the century over Secretariat.

My vote goes to Secretariat though.

Ya wanna talk horses, do you?

The Great Dan Patch, IMO, and many others, was the fastest pacer
that ever lived.
Born in 1896, he broke 14 world records and had a time trial of 1:55 that
stood up for maybe a half century.
This was done on dirt tracks, old fashioned sulkies, and primitive training
methods.
With modern equipment, training, and stone-dust tracks, I doubt any modern horse could beat him.

Hell, he might win the Indianapolis 500
 
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The nuts

The only way to sway an idea that has already taken root within the mind of the believer is to get them to research the answers for themselves. They can be led to change their beliefs when presented with accountability/proof, only if they themself find the answers and realise their previous mistake.

Any challenge is welcome, but if you look these up and compare them truthfully - I don't expect a challenge.

CUE SPORTSMAN
Walter Lindrum - The game was changed because he was too good. Anybody who has played ALL 4 versions > That is Pool, Snooker, English Billiards + Carom will attest that he was the greatest cueist who ever lived - no question. This one will cause all sorts of arguments so be objective and see the quoted criteria. Play ALL 4 versions before you decide you know better.
Honourable Mention:
Don Willis. Plenty of other US players may have been better in competition but ALL who saw Willis play put him in the top 5 ever. Please remember he did not compete like all the others.

HORSE
If you want a real horse - Phar Lap. Just look him up.

BOXING
Talk to people who actually watched the Liston v Clay fight live - Sonny was the real deal. I know...same deal as Lindrum...talk to someone who was there before you discount any conspiracy theory.
Honourable Mentions:
Kostya Tzu - Pound for pound over 3 weight divisions and UNIFIED. Not to mention his record in the Russian Army before he turned pro.
Riddick Bowe - What would he have done with a better trainer and manager. Conjecture welcome here...I added him with my heart and not the research route.

BASKETBALL
Only Jordan changed the face of what a professional could do in any sport. Still the man for any money bet. Plays pool OK too!
Honourable Mention:
Wilt Chamberlain - Started something that culminated in Jordan.

DRIVER
Hard to pick between Gilles Villeneuve, Ari Vatenen and Ayrton Senna. All 3 excelled and won in vehicles that were less competetive than the other competitors. Schumaker is not in MY top 10 for the same reason. He was good but the cars he drove were way ahead of anything else.
Honourable Mentions:
Stirling Moss + Juan Manuel Fangio. Stirling for the same reason as the top 3. The world title eluded him though. Juan because he was a winner with the best product and a winner with less than the best product also.

SURFER
Mark Richards - Changed the sport to a professional level. At a time when so many greats were excelling, he stayed on top for 4 years.. Over all sportsmen ever, probably the humblest, nicest and most affable person in a professional sport...EVER. Trust me...the last part is SO true.
Honourable Mentions:
Kelly Slater - His competetive record speaks for itself.
Michael Peterson - Changed the sport completely - totally crazy though.
Laird Hamilton, Ken Bradshaw, Eddie Aikau + Mark Foo. Because there are few men who ever lived with bigger balls than these 4...SERIOUSLY!

TENNIS PLAYER
Martina Navratilova - Best record over a long time for a male or female in pretty much any sport.

Just my 2 cents...sorry 50 cents...LOL
 
Ya wanna talk horses, do you?

The Great Dan Patch, IMO, and many others, was the fastest pacer
that ever lived.
Born in 1896, he broke 14 world records and had a time trial of 1:55 that
stood up for maybe a half century.
This was done on dirt tracks, old fashioned sulkies, and primitive training
methods.
With modern equipment, training, and stone-dust tracks, I doubt any modern horse could beat him.

Hell, he might win the Indianapolis 500

Dan patch is a legend. I have no qualms giving a pacer his due. I got to see Niatross race and he was no slouch either.

I've heard some people argue that Dr. Fager was better than Secretariat, but I say no horse in the history of creation beats Secretariat on June 9, 1973 at Belmont, and he was still only three years old!
 
Jordan was by far the greatest at his position, but just looking at the stats and history of the game it is tough to argue against Wilt:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Wilt_Chamberlain

"Chamberlain is holder of 72 NBA all-time records, 63 of which he holds by himself.[19] Among his records are several which are regarded as virtually unbreakable, such as averaging 22.9 rebounds for a career or 50.4 points in a regular season, scoring 100 points or 55 rebounds in a single game, scoring 65 points or more fifteen times, 50 or more points 118 times"

118 50+ point games. That is just ridiculous...and also bear in mind blocks were not a stat back then or he would hold a couple records there too.

They actually tried numerous rule changes to try to slow down Wilt...the only 'Jordan rule' I can think of was the unspoken "whistle anyone who comes within 3 feet of #23" rule of the 90's. :D

Scroll down these, about every other listing is Wilt with other "stars" sprinkled in:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ssociation_players_with_most_points_in_a_game

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...iation_top_individual_scoring_season_averages

nothing against MJ of course, its just the numbers and stats are a little overwhelming...otherwise I like your list Rack :)
 
I've also never heard of anybody being referred to as the greatest ice hockey player ever but Gretzky. How good was Gretzky? When he arrived on the NHL scene, the scoring record for a season was 152 points. After a 137 point rookie campaign, Gretzky exceeded 152 points in seven consecutive seasons. That's probably on a par with a baseball player batting at least .425 for seven consecutive years, routinely topping Rogers Hornsby's record .424 average time and time again.

Never heard of Bobby Orr? There are constant debates over who was the greatest. Most lean in Orr's favor as well in my experience.
 
Undisputable and undebatable. LOL!!!! There's always going to be a disputer and debater and they're legitimate.

Among the myriad of debates, problems will always be how technology and environment play and how records fall. That's true for boxing, racing, and even track & field.

Every name listed is disputable...

... except maybe Walter Lindrum. Does anyone even come up with another name that has a potential argument against Walter Lindrum?

And then there's Phil Taylor, who boggles my mind at the moment. Does he ever lose ???



Freddie <~~~ thinks Marilyn will always be the greatest
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqABkG1JpHM

That marksman who you say is so great, he doesn't compare to this guy. Saw him on TV one time put a hole through a 50 cent piece from 200 yards away.

I don't think he is human he shoots so fast. Watch the 2 ballons 8 feets apart he draws on and pops them before you can even think about blinking.
 
Except Man o' War was actually voted the horse of the century over Secretariat.

My vote goes to Secretariat though.

I have heard but don't really know the facts that Man o'War was unbelievable in hadicapped races, winning anyway all the time. This horse raced over a longer period of time than Secretariat. This is a close call but Secretariat was the best.

1.Secretariat - 16 wins from 21 starts. The greatest of the great, his triple crown campaign, during which he set official track records at Churchill Downs and Belmont Park, and an unofficial track record at Pimlico, will never be exceeded or even matched. Pity poor Sham, an outstanding race horse in his own right, who was a game second in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness before being annihilated with all the rest in Secretariat's incomparable Belmont Stakes win, during which he set a world record for 12 furlongs that still stands to this day.
2.Man o' War - 20 wins from 21 starts. Man o' War was the first great race horse to really capture the public's imagination and raise horse racing in the public consciousness. His lone loss, ironically to a horse named Upset, came during his 2-year-old season in the 1919 but hardly mars an otherwise dominating career
 
The greatest boxer of all time is Joe Louis.

My favorite was Ali, but:

Robinson was named the greatest fighter of the 20th century by the Associated Press, and the greatest boxer in history by ESPN.com in 2007. The Ring magazine rated him the best pound for pound boxer of all-time in 1997, and its "Fighter of the Decade" for the 1950s. Muhammad Ali, who repeatedly called himself "The Greatest" throughout his career, ranked Robinson as the greatest boxer of all time. Other Hall of Fame boxers such as Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Leonard said the same.
 
Lance Armstrong, the man was as dominant as a professional athlete can be. It had to be a pretty tough pill to swallow riding in the tour de France knowing the best you could do was finish second.

Well, Lance lately has been accused, and rightlfully so, that he used oxygen enchancing drugs. So a no go here.
 
Never heard of Bobby Orr? There are constant debates over who was the greatest. Most lean in Orr's favor as well in my experience.

Yes, I saw Orr in his prime and he, in my view, was the third greatest I've gotten to see, behind Gretzky and Lemieux. You are the first I've ever heard that suggested Orr is the greatest ever. Gretzky, as well as being statistically and visually the greatest player ever, also led his team to five Stanely Cups in a six year period (83,84,85,87,88) and was the cornerstone of the greatest team in recent times. He won nine Hart (league MVP) trophies including eight in a row. Bobby Orr won just three. Is this debate really worth having? The admittedly superb and legendary Bobby Orr is not even in the conversation.
 
Lance Armstrong, the man was as dominant as a professional athlete can be. It had to be a pretty tough pill to swallow riding in the tour de France knowing the best you could do was finish second.

Unfortunate phraseology for a renowned drugs cheat!

Joe Davis (snooker) is a very strong contender, as is Don Bradman (cricket). Phenomenal records, both.

In the modern era, Stephen Hendry's record is something else, especially given he played in a relatively competitive era.

And Tiger Woods?
 
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