A-joint buzz

M

masonh

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
here is a new thread in response to some posts in the last thread.i saw a few guys say the end grains on the faces cause the typical a-joint buzz.

i was under the impression that it is glue coming loose inside the a-joint as well.

is it both or the faces or the glue coming loose?


one reason i ask is that i see lots of cues with phenolic inserst at the joint that buzz.
 
How do you put a buzz ring on a wrapless cue? And how do wrapless cuemakers consistently keep their cues from buzzing? I admit, I struggled with it for a while in my early days, especially when using metal rings. It took much deep thought & countless hours & dollars wasted on experimentation to finally figure it out. Though there are several key elements to doing it, i'll hint that adhesive choice & knowing how to use it is a huge factor.

As for using a buzz ring, I cannot comment because I have never done it.
 
qbilder said:
adhesive choice & knowing how to use it is a huge factor.
Click to expand...


Without a doubt, I believe this the #1 contributing factor to having a solid joint or not. Knowing how to use it is even bigger than the choice of.


<~~~IMO....................
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
Without a doubt, I believe this the #1 contributing factor to having a solid joint or not. Knowing how to use it is even bigger than the choice of.


<~~~IMO....................
Click to expand...
I agree.
Neil
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
Without a doubt, I believe this the #1 contributing factor to having a solid joint or not. Knowing how to use it is even bigger than the choice of.


<~~~IMO....................
Click to expand...

What Ericand Dave said
 
masonh said:
here is a new thread in response to some posts in the last thread.i saw a few guys say the end grains on the faces cause the typical a-joint buzz.

i was under the impression that it is glue coming loose inside the a-joint as well.

is it both or the faces or the glue coming loose?


one reason i ask is that i see lots of cues with phenolic inserst at the joint that buzz.
Click to expand...
End grains don't glue as well and often cause a buzz. Here is a way to eliminate that buzz without having to put a ring there. Before joining the handle to the forearm coat both face surfaces with West System. Let that soak in and dry. Then lightly face each off and then glue the forearm and butt together. That eliminates your need for the ring and the end grains glue fine.
 
cueman said:
End grains don't glue as well and often cause a buzz. Here is a way to eliminate that buzz without having to put a ring there. Before joining the handle to the forearm coat both face surfaces with West System. Let that soak in and dry. Then lightly face each off and then glue the forearm and butt together. That eliminates your need for the ring and the end grains glue fine.
Click to expand...
Greenie for you.
 
when i first started making cues i didnt know what buzz was. i only collected top makers and never experienced the buzz people talk about. honestly still havent. anyway i didnt have much teaching i kinda had to learn alot by myself as far as making. i read somewhere when making a cue the very slow curing epoxies like 60 minute are much stronger then fast like 5 minute. in the beginning i used 60 min on everything. i also didnt use phenolic in the ajoint in my early cues. never had a buzz i feel bc i used a slow drying epoxy that soaked into the endgrain making in hard like chris mentioned. i always offset my grain from handle to forearm also. now i use a small .150 piece of phenolic with a very tight tenon and luckily no buzz yet. (knock on wood) maybe slop or shrinkage is the cause of the buzz.
 
I was a sign painter for many years. Before we would paint a plywood sign we would coat the end grain with elmer's glue. Then the end grain would be sealed & paint went on like a breeze. When I started making Qs, I read where Burtan Spain said end grain did not adhear well when glued. I sealed the end grain 1st, like Chris said. I do one other thing that I think helps. I use a 5/64 drill bit & drill 3 or 4 shallow holes into the end grain (near the center) & any rings that I use. This acts as small "pins" to hold everything tight...JER
 
I think some of the problem might be that some makers are using a laminating epoxy on the endgrain joint. The lamianting epoxy is quite thin and in some woods is readily absorbed, so much so that there is very little left to penetrate the other piece. A fix for this, in the West system , is to mix some micro fibre into the laminating resin. It thickens the resin to a glue and the mirco fibres help to prevent the resin being totaly absorbed into the wood. A good example of seeing absorbtion is painting endgrain on ceder siding. It will absorb white paint that you can not tell it was painted and is dry to touch much sooner than the paint on the side.
Different woods have different end grain absorbtion rates. The result can be efectively a dry joint.
A previous post of priming the parts before joining is a good idea.The priming seals the endgrain so the glue can remain at the joint for the bond.
In my experience, the buzz from a cue is a joint that is not totally solid somewhere. There are many causes for a failed joint. Haveing wood correctly seasoned and at similar moisture content, reduces a cause.
Neil
 
What if the screw comes loose inside (IF you use a screw there that is)?
Anybody ever hear of using tp or a foam expanding plug at the bottom of your hole to keep the screw from rattling? :grin: :grin-square: :eek:
 
Poulos Cues said:
What if the screw comes loose inside (IF you use a screw there that is)?
Anybody ever hear of using tp or a foam expanding plug at the bottom of your hole to keep the screw from rattling? :grin: :grin-square: :eek:
Click to expand...

i make my pins to perfect depth. as perfect as possible. any extra is filled with epoxy. i measure my to get as close as possible
 
I don't think end-grains buzzing is not a huge problem as bolts ratteling these days.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I don't think end-grains buzzing is not a huge problem as bolts ratteling these days.
Click to expand...

I have been experimenting building a few cues w/ no "A-joint"... one piece core w/ a sleeved forearm and butt piece- picked up the idea around somewhere...can't seem to remember where though:D
 
Poulos Cues said:
I have been experimenting building a few cues w/ no "A-joint"... one piece core w/ a sleeved forearm and butt piece- picked up the idea around somewhere...can't seem to remember where though:D
Click to expand...
Denali and Black Boar do that.
I have a two-piece core with maple in front and hard rosewood in the back.
Wood threaded together.
Me no like metal bolts.
 
I don't think end-grains buzzing is not a huge problem as bolts ratteling these days.
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pretty much how i see it too.


thanks everyone.i just hear so many different opinions on what causes the dreaded buzz.i always thought it was something loose or not solid inside the joint.
 
masonh said:
pretty much how i see it too.


thanks everyone.i just hear so many different opinions on what causes the dreaded buzz.i always thought it was something loose or not solid inside the joint.
Click to expand...

It is amazing what a little "tightening up" of the wieght bolt can do as well!

A guy once was ready for me to put on a new ferrule and tip on his custom cue cause it had this noisey "click" in it... pulled off the bumper and VIOLA!!:thumbup:
 
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