A long comment on "aiming systems" ...

:rotflmao1:All these lines, all these shifts or pivots...bridge here, bridge there, contact point here contact point there! Aiming does not have to be THIS complicated. I think I just heard Mosconi rollover in the grave and say "WTF, just put the ball in the pocket!":bash:

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I guess you have NEVER taken the time to read ANY of his articles! The DAM is "Dave's Aiming Method".

On page 2 of his aiming article he credits Patrick Johnson, Spiderman, and Bob Jewett.
On page 3 he credits Colin Colenso; page 4 Mike Page; more credits for Mike Page and Joe W. on page 5; more for Patrick Johnson and Colin Colenso on 6; Johnson again on 7; more credits throughout his article to people like Shawn Armstrong, Hal Houle, Dave Segal, and Stan Shufett.
He writes his articles for the most respected magazine in Billiards, Billiards Digest! Your suggestion that he conceals his sources is not just ignorant of the man's work and credentials...it's defamation!


P.S. There's some more funny shit right here! Here I even linked it for ya!!
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=263110
 
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:rotflmao1:All these lines, all these shifts or pivots...bridge here, bridge there, contact point here contact point there! Aiming does not have to be THIS complicated. I think I just heard Mosconi rollover in the grave and say "WTF, just put the ball in the pocket!":bash:

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Your rite...he's thinking he might of ran a thousand balls.lol
 
Your rite...he's thinking he might of ran a thousand balls.lol

Looks to me it'd be a slot simpler just to stay with the center of the gb and line-up and stroke through it.
Jerry Briesath could be wrong though.
 
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Can you please make a list of all the issues you see wrong and or limitations of cte?

Place a ball between the CB and OB then do the drawing
Put a ball right next to the CB such that your bridge can not be used as shown and you are jacked up shooting over the ball
Put the CB on the rail and shoot.
Have the CB and OB frozen.
Do a behind your back shot where you are looking over your shoulder at the shot.
Do a one handed shot, no bridge used.

Any system that relies on being able to see the OB directly for aiming is of limited use.

Any system that requires a certain bridge length or certain amount of "pivot" is limited in what shots can be made.

Oh how bout a carom, where you don't care about making the first ball you hit but another, wheres that drawing?

Any system that requires a TECH SUPPORT PHONE NUMBER is just to complicated.
 
I had a great afternoon yesterday at the pool hall:

I played a race to 10 of running 3 balls thrown on the table, trying my best to get perfect position. Any shot that gave me trouble by missing, or not getting position like I expected, I shot over 5 to 10 times.

Then I spent an hour or so on one of the drills from Joe Tucker's Guaranteed Improvement book.

Now back to the regularly scheduled aiming controversies:)
 
Some people just can't tell the difference between an expert on ALL aiming sytems, and a salesman who is simply trying to SELL his method of aiming on DVD. Dave is not selling anything here!

So Dave Alciatore is an expert on all systems? And he is not selling anything here?

I think you missed the fact that Dave Alciatore has three major products that he sells. If you don't think that the majority of his efforts and contributions here are in service of selling people on his "expertise" by linking the information he has amassed in order to generate more sales of his books and dvds then you are fairly naive.

How can you be so two-faced? Just a few posts ago you apologized to Stan for slamming his product and calling it a waste of money and yet here you are again slamming him.

Stan has trained champions. Who have you trained? Who has Alciatore trained? Stan recent placed very high in the US Open. What is Alciatore's best results as a competitor? What is yours? Since you feel that you can tell who is an expert and who isn't you should be able to answer that.

David Alciatore has collected a great deal of pool information. He has produced a number of great videos that show clearly the physical reactions when the cue ball is struck and when balls collide and rebound off rails. These are amazing videos and a true boon to the world of pool and billiards. He knows quite a lot about the things he has filmed.

Together with Tom Ross and others Dave has brought us some fantastic material on how to play.

But on the subject of aiming systems he is very weak in his personal knowledge. This is due in my opinion to an incomplete study which is tainted by personal bias. That bias is also in my opinion due to distaste for some exuberant claims made by some who have excitedly shared their aiming system experiences. This led Dave to make a hateful and exaggerated mockery of those people. And he continues to mock them to this day even while claiming to be unbiased.

The man makes several claims on his Aiming System page that are flat out wrong and refuses to engage anyone who disagrees with him. He takes many statements out of context and muddles them together in such a way that a novice reader looking for information on aiming systems is going to be very confused. He then leads to the reader to his DAM paragragh which is a hateful mockery of those who advocate aiming systems. This mockery suggests to the reader that while aiming systems "might" have "some" benefits the student is better off to simply have "quiet eyes" and buy the materials Dave SELLS in order to improve as a player.

To my mind the intent is to make aiming systems a confusing mess rather than to objectively and without bias bring clarity to the subject. Thus the user with his brain sufficiently confused after reading Dave's aiming system page would naturally seek something "easier" to read and deal with.

And that is what?

Well perhaps these dear reader:

The Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards,
the DVD series: The Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots (VEPS),
the DVD series: The Video Encyclopedia of Pool Practice (VEPP)

Which are helpfully linked to at the very top of the page here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE_evaluation

_________________________________________________


Collecting information does not make one an expert. Experience and study along with research and development makes one an expert.

Just because you have a library does not make you an expert on any of the subjects written about in the books you own. It doesn't even make you knowledgeable about those subjects if you didn't actually read the books or retain the information you read if you read them.

An expert is someone who knows the subject through and through. And when it comes to aiming systems Dr. Dave does not yet know them through and through.

If he did then there would already be a book and dvd on the market by him with a title something like this:

VEAS - Video Encyclopedia of Aiming Systems by David Alciatore, PhD.
 
I had a great afternoon yesterday at the pool hall:

I played a race to 10 of running 3 balls thrown on the table, trying my best to get perfect position. Any shot that gave me trouble by missing, or not getting position like I expected, I shot over 5 to 10 times.

Then I spent an hour or so on one of the drills from Joe Tucker's Guaranteed Improvement book.

Now back to the regularly scheduled aiming controversies:)

I do a similar drill but I increase the ball number each time. When I miss or miss position then I go back a ball. It's very satisfying to go from three to ten balls in one go without missing. I usually get stuck at 6/7 and some days on 4.
 
Looks to me it'd be a slot simpler just to stay with the center of the gb and line-up and stroke through it.
Jerry Briesath could be wrong though.

Speaking of Jerry Briesath; I asked him what he thought of CTE and he said, some people get hung up on aiming systems and never progress beyond that point. He didn't elaborate, and I didn't push the subject any further, but I've worked with Jerry and I have also talked to many people who have taken lessons from him, and CTE is apparently not one of the subjects he teaches.

So is CTE aiming as important as its pitch men have made it out to be? Well, if it is, why isn't the world's leading instructor teaching it?

Roger
 
I had a great afternoon yesterday at the pool hall:

I played a race to 10 of running 3 balls thrown on the table, trying my best to get perfect position. Any shot that gave me trouble by missing, or not getting position like I expected, I shot over 5 to 10 times.

Then I spent an hour or so on one of the drills from Joe Tucker's Guaranteed Improvement book.

Now back to the regularly scheduled aiming controversies:)

But....but....that's not fair!!!!!!!!,,,you actually tried something on a table!

That's not fair!!!!


Jeff Livingston
 
lol. It certainly is refreshing to hit real balls, instead of reading AZ. Not just aiming threads, but any threads. I think a lot of us lose that perspective (I know at least I do...)
 
make it a nice long one too please and everything you can possibly think of. This should be interesting considering i believe he has no cte knowledge at all, i have concluded from following his posts in here.

Could you please explain why you think "no cte knowledge at all" is such a bad thing?

Roger
 
I had a great afternoon yesterday at the pool hall:

I played a race to 10 of running 3 balls thrown on the table, trying my best to get perfect position. Any shot that gave me trouble by missing, or not getting position like I expected, I shot over 5 to 10 times.

Then I spent an hour or so on one of the drills from Joe Tucker's Guaranteed Improvement book.

Now back to the regularly scheduled aiming controversies:)

That's a great drill, and I admire that you shot it over 5 - 10 times, most people either just move on or shoot it once and move on. Taking the time and focus to do it at least 3 - 5 times will ingrain it in your memory so you can hopefully avoid the same mistake later.

Once you can do 3 balls "perfectly" 15 or 16 out of 20, then you add another ball and keep working until you can do the same with 4 balls etc. Doing this with 6 balls 80% of the time, "perfectly" at least, is challenging, and if anyone can do 7 that's very strong.

This is harder than most people think - I've challenged a lot of players who though it would be easy with 4 balls, they didn't even get close their first time trying it. I've been at 6 balls for quite some time, although I don't do this like I used to, should probably get back to it. Never could seem to get 15 out of 20 consistently, usually in the 12 - 14 range. But I'm very strict with it - if I anticipate my shot and end up with a too long of a shot, or too sharp of a cut, or a bank, or even end up with a good shot but not on the side of the ball I was planning for, I don't count it. You just have to be honest with yourself as to what type of shot would be reasonable given your level of skill. Damn consistency...

Scott
 
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