A microcosm of what's wrong with men's pool?

[rackmsuckr]

I got this email today from a woman that runs all kinds of tournaments, men, women's, skins, scotch doubles, etc. Last weekend, she ran a 3-in-1 tournament where there was a women's event, a men's event and a scotch doubles tournament. Here is what she had to say:

"It was horrible running it. With the women, I never have to worry about no shows, people late, couples fighting, guys drunk.... OMG, I had it all this past weekend. Good luck trying to play pool too! I'll think twice about running another guy's tournament!"​

Now I have run many open tournaments and many women's events. I will have to say that the problems with women are usually the catty personality kind, while some of the men have problems comporting themselves. Is this too wide of a generalization or do you think it is an accurate state of affairs? By and large, most players, male or female, act with grace and dignity, but there are always the ones that make things challenging.

 

[watchez]

Linda--Part of the equation is numbers. When I have been to events that there are men & women tournaments, the men out number the women by at least 5 to 1. More people, more personalities, more problems.
However, in Vegas during the BCA 8 ball league finals in May, I have seen many more instances of issues with the women than the men. And this is being said as I have watched many more men matches than women. I am not sure if you have been to the Vegas BCA tournaments in awhile, but I saw your previous post that you are going to be there this year. You will see many more instances of women's matches coming to the brink of a physical fight. Look at the women when they play. You can see the hatred in their eyes for their opponent.
Looking forward to seeing you in Vegas. I saw your post that your husband is playing in the Master team event. I will be sure to introduce myself. Who else is your husband playing with?

 

[RobertR]

Funny you should bring that up. There is a current thread on RSB about the same thing, it's even called 'Comportment'.

I've never run a tournament, and from what I've seen over the years, I never will.

I lieu of a huge diatribe about it, here's what I think about the situation:

Problem is, there is no reward for good behaviour, and no penalty for bad behaviour in our beloved game.

 

[ScottW]

Sure there's a penalty for bad behavior - disqualification!

Thing is, no TD will ever pull that trigger.

 

[Da Poet]

Men are not only less afraid of confrontation, we welcome it. That's why we also like to leave our dirty underwear lying around.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Linda--Part of the equation is numbers. When I have been to events that there are men & women tournaments, the men out number the women by at least 5 to 1. More people, more personalities, more problems.
However, in Vegas during the BCA 8 ball league finals in May, I have seen many more instances of issues with the women than the men. And this is being said as I have watched many more men matches than women. I am not sure if you have been to the Vegas BCA tournaments in awhile, but I saw your previous post that you are going to be there this year. You will see many more instances of women's matches coming to the brink of a physical fight. Look at the women when they play. You can see the hatred in their eyes for their opponent.
Looking forward to seeing you in Vegas. I saw your post that your husband is playing in the Master team event. I will be sure to introduce myself. Who else is your husband playing with?

Yes, I understand about the numbers part. That being said, when you have a tournament with only men and another tournament with only women and compare the outbreaks, it seems that in my experience at least, there have been more men troubles. For instance, our women's tour has 45 women signed up for this weekend, a fair size considering a lot of our weekend men's tournaments don't get that many. I will let you know if any trouble breaks out, but I am guessing there won't be.

I look forward to meeting you in Vegas as well. I have been there numerous times, including last year. And I don't know which women you watched, but I rooted for my friend Kim A. Hole (she loves her new married name) win the women's masters singles. I guarantee you that she wasn't looking at anyone with hatred. Except for one woman who was intentionally sharking every match, I didn't see any trouble.

Mike will be playing with Dan Louie, Todd Marsh, John Doherty, and Tim Tweedell.

 

[Stones]

Having run many different levels of tourneys (weekly, monthly, state, regional, etc.), every once in a while I feel more like a babysitter than a TD. About 80% of the time, it is the same few players who push the envelope.

There is a certain standard that players must adher to and that line cannot and will not be crossed.

What it gets down to is stepping in, taking control of the situation and defuseing it. The offending player or players are given one warning starting with loss a game, match or disqualification. Short, sweet and to the point. In the past, I have had to disqualify a few players in the smaller events. Just hand them their entry fee back, thank them for coming out and not to bother coming out again.

I really enjoy the ladies as most act in a professional manner with being on time and very little controversy.

What watchez says about the ladies in Vegas is true having coached and supported many ladies from our local area. I've never heard or seen such sharking and trash talking during and after the ladies matches.

All I can figure is it must be something in the water, beer or liquor out there. LOL

 

[Cameron Smith]

A zero tolerance attitude should fix that. For every minute late you forfeit a game until you forfeit the match. If you no show entirely forget about the B side, your out.

No argueing or bickering should be permitted within the tournament area, failiure to comply may result in disqualification.

If you make people aware of a zero tolerance attitude before the tournament then you shouldn't have many problems. Is it really too much to ask for people act like responsible adults? It may be for some people but that is what disqualification is for. They will learn quick.

 

[Island Drive]

A zero tolerance attitude should fix that. For every minute late you forfeit a game until you forfeit the match. If you no show entirely forget about the B side, your out.

No argueing or bickering should be permitted within the tournament area, failiure to comply may result in disqualification.

If you make people aware of a zero tolerance attitude before the tournament then you shouldn't have many problems. Is it really too much to ask for people act like responsible adults? It may be for some people but that is what disqualification is for. They will learn quick.

Cameron, you hit the nail on the head, during the players meeting set your NO Tolerance rules and you will minimize all the babysitting. Its how we all treat our children in order to gain control. You could also have a small player registration sheet they have to sign when they pay thats "states" your ability to disqualify and how you will control poor behavior.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

Professional pool players with no sense of professionalism.

 

[sjm]

I lieu of a huge diatribe about it, here's what I think about the situation: Problem is, there is no reward for good behaviour, and no penalty for bad behaviour in our beloved game.

Very wise words.

 

[Island Drive]

Very wise words.

Correct, and with all childern or childish behavior you must give them a choice to help them "GROW UP" by enforcing the "be nice or be gone" philosophy.

 

[Da Poet]

If you make people aware of a zero tolerance attitude before the tournament then you shouldn't have many problems. Is it really too much to ask for people act like responsible adults? It may be for some people but that is what disqualification is for. They will learn quick.

I agree.

Honestly, I have never run a tournament, but I was wondering if anyone has ever uses or had to fill out a short form listing the rules of play and conduct like this:


Name_____________________

Thankyou for your participation in tonights event. Please read the following tournament rules carefully and acknowledge your understanding of them with a signature at the bottom.


1) Tournament rules are BCA with the following exceptions:

a) No intentional jumping allowed

b) Alternate breaks (Obviously a and b are optional examples)

2) Conduct : In the effort to promote good sportsmanship and an enjoyable tournament for everyone, all tournament participants will conduct themselves in a respectful manner to all other tournament participants, tournament directors and referees, employees of the house, and spectators. Inappropriate conduct as determined by the tournament director, or house owner, can result in disqualification without refund of any and all entry fees. These actions include, but are not limited to the following:

a) Abusive language

b) Sharking or any deliberate efforts to distract opponents play as determined by the tournament director or house owner.

c) (anything else anyone can think of)



I ____________________(print name) have read and understand the rules as decribed above.


Signed_________________________



Seem like a small form like this is simple and easy to administer and would go a long way to eliminate most of the problems folks have been describing and help keep track of who has paid.

 

[Adanac67]

I have run hundreds of tournaments over the years and people knew very quickly that I had zero tolerance for bad ettiquette, sharking or just being an asshole. Things were how they were and if you didn't like it, you know where the door is. More than once I've handed a player their money back in mid tournament and told them to find somewhere else to play. I always said that if barring one idiot brought in two more players who would not play because of said player, it was best for everyone.