Thanks everyone
Very interesting poll results thanks to all. I definitely should have been clearer. What I really mean is that right now there is (as Renfro pointed out, not so much where he is from) an “unwritten rule” that you don’t pick up, stop with your stick, etc.. a CB that is in motion when you foul especially if it might/will bump another ball and or in some way change the makeup of the table.
My question is would you be in favor of writing this rule down in the rulebook in some way, that is absolutely irrefutable; spelling it out in no uncertain terms? I am a little surprised at some of the answers.
The OP was because I was reading a thread that said “is this unsportsmanlike conduct?” and it dealt with this directly. And most people said yes and that’s why I am a little surprised at the split answer.
So I remembered several times when I have been in a match people that have done this. In a couple of instances it was when he had fouled on the 8 and the CB was still in motion; and well I obviously got angry.
6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately.
Maybe you could try and stretch (b) to try and declare the foul but as written expect a fight over it.... You could argue the spirit of the rules where it states that the game cannot be played fairly but if both players are picking up whitey the field is even and fair..... I still will classify it as gamesmanship as the rules do not expressly address the act in question....
Thanks for posting this Renfro I really do appreciate your input to this thread it is always good to know how the other side sees it in order to make the best decisions for ALL concerned; and I really do mean that.
It looks like in unsportsmanlike conduct there is something there that can be “interpreted” according to this, I am saying 1 possibility is to put another little letter in there that states it clearly and would not be subject to interpretation; BUT that is only 1 possibility.
You should play in the APA if you dont already...
I like the APA it is just that I played in it and it is obviously not for me. But they are doing a lot to make people more interested in pool and for that I commend them; and I think for that they are a great boon for pool. It is just not for me I played in it for 2 seasons. I would not suggest this for the APA under any circumstances it is far too complicated for too many of them; until you have everybody agree that you should call your pocket just like everywhere else you go in the world (in competitive environments) a rule like this would be like asking an infant to run a 50yd dash before they were able to stand on 2 feet.
If you had the power to modify the rules, then I'd say yes to your intention here, but i would go about it a little differently. This should be in reference to ANY ball, not just the cue ball, it should address intent, and it should address changing the outcome of the shot….
….As has been implied by other posts in this thread, this will only work when playing people who go by the rules. That's a whole other kettle of fish.
I agree with you but some of the answers in this thread prove that that is far too complicated for lots of people. I know you said more than this and I am 100% in agreement with you but I think we would have to take it 1 step at a time till everybody could come to a basic philosophical agreement.
It's already explicitly unsportsmanlike conduct. Is that the sort of rule you meant?
Bob thanks can you show us/me where/how it states that irrefutably?
Try that playing for money, ya better be wearing a vest, and a helmet!
If you think a rule is what makes people do the right thing, I feel sorry for you.
As Renfro pointed out, some folks don't care about right and wrong, do you think a rule will convince them/him??
Excellent question! Feel sorry for me because I do; the rules are the only reason that will deter people from doing something. If a player does something and someone says “you cant do that” the person that did that is going to say “show me where it says I cant do that”; the law works the same way. That does not mean that in order to stop people from doing something that you can “just make it illegal; problem solved” no it means that if they do that illegal thing that they can now be penalized for it; where as before the rule, not be.
To me snatching up whitey before it opens up my opponents cluster is the epitome of gamesmanship...
Thank you for your honesty in how you actually play, I feel the exact opposite way.
When in Rome.....
I took the high road for many years but the practice is pretty rampant... To the point that I have seen very few cueballs not picked up as soon as they miss hitting the lowest ball over the last few years....... It may simply be a regional thing.....
I believe you, good point.
It may indeed be unsportsmanlike conduct but I can see the arguments being worse than the conduct if you whip out your pocket rulebook and try and make that call...
I believe you, good point.
If the match has a referee they can make that call and I wouldn't even consider snatching it up....
Exactly my point of this whole thread.
If you are gambling or in a 5-10 dollar tournament good luck with trying to make that call yourself.... at least around here.....
No offense but wherever your “around here” is it sounds like I wouldn’t really enjoy playing there.
Whoinell dreams this sthuff up
People that play straight-up against people that don’t.
I agree that it is wrong.... .....
Seems to be incompatible with.
To me snatching up whitey before it opens up my opponents cluster is the epitome of gamesmanship...
Can you explain?
All I am saying is that while it is wrong trying to call it on someone will likely not end well when you are interpreting the rules and there is nothing in black and white regarding the exact action.....
So if you think it is wrong, it will cause problems because trying to call it on someone because the rules regarding the exact action are vague why are you opposed to putting it in b&w? is it because?
To me snatching up whitey before it opens up my opponents cluster is the epitome of gamesmanship...
So you do this even though you know it’s wrong? Please correct me if I am wrong.
