A note on Atlas's Mahogany phenolic...

Varney Cues

Varney Cues

Handcrafted quality!
Silver Member
Wanted to share some info with you gentleman. Just received an email from Eric at Atlas concerning their mahogany phenolic tubing. There may be no more for awhile...and they've been sold out for sometime now. Apparently the last batch they got was trash & unacceptable as it didn't have the correct cosmetic properties. Eric said that until they get satisfactory samples from a supplier willing to work with them, the material will not be available. In case you are like me and have some cues started with this material & were waiting on more tube stock...the only option right now is they do have some solid rod stock available in joint & butt size. Sad...I really liked that color option.
 
personally i didnt like the stuff anyway
Click to expand...

ya,it was kind of funny looking.nothing like the older dark that had the orange/red color.that is what i would like to run across.
 
Varney Cues said:
Wanted to share some info with you gentleman. Just received an email from Eric at Atlas concerning their mahogany phenolic tubing. There may be no more for awhile...and they've been sold out for sometime now. Apparently the last batch they got was trash & unacceptable as it didn't have the correct cosmetic properties. Eric said that until they get satisfactory samples from a supplier willing to work with them, the material will not be available. In case you are like me and have some cues started with this material & were waiting on more tube stock...the only option right now is they do have some solid rod stock available in joint & butt size. Sad...I really liked that color option.
Click to expand...

It might be interesting to explore this further.
Atlas Billiard Supply is like Sears in that they don't make anything other than money. They get their phenolic mtrl from their parent company, Atlas Fbre.
So are we to conclude that Atlas Fibre can't produce adequate mtrl. for their cue parts division? I suspect that there is more to this story than what you're being told. I also suspect that there is an underlying reason why YOU were chosen to make this announcement.

Atlas has chosen to make decisions that are not in the best interest of their client base, specifically CMs. My guess is that this mtrl., Mahogany phenolic, will no longer be available and it's not about a cosmetic issue. It's about overall sales. It's not worth their time to 'run' it anymore.
So why offer it to CMs in the first place? IMO, to test the waters.
Since the sales figures on the Mahogany don't meet their expectations, they won't waste their time on it.

This isn't the first time that Atlas has done this.
When was the last time you were able to get basic LBM ferrule size rod from Atlas?
How about .906" dia. dbl. blk. phen. rod? They still have a small amount of the tube in that size but I suspect that once that's gone, you won't see it again.
Not from Atlas anyway.
It's not cost effective for them to make a 'run' just for CMs. Simply stated, CMs don't buy enough of it to justify the production costs and no where else in the world is there a demand for it. Sorry CMs, you lose.

Why do I want .906" tube & rod?
Because I don't like making 'chips'. Chips are waste and I don't like to waste. Waste has a cost and not just for me. We all pay the price in some form or another. I understand the premise of 'going green'. My chips can't be recycled, they are total waste and that equates to wasted money. In the bigger picture, it's a waste of the diminishing resources of the world. Hopefully, Atlas will someday come to understand this. They are very happy to sell you tube & rod in 1" dia. because they run that every day. It's a default dia. for the industry. I don't think they really care about how much waste you'll produce.

What may be escaping Atlases vision is that I want what I want and there's a reason that I want it. If they don't want to carry LBM, that's fine, I know where to get it. As far as the Mahogany phenolic, I'd say buy it while you can because once it's gone, it's gone.
What it boils down to is down-sizing and stream-lining corporate costs. Unfortunately, it's at our expense. 'Here's what were offering; take it or leave it'.
 
KJ sounds like you may very well of hit the nail on the head. I would like to make known that I wasn't "chosen" to make the anouncement. I had simply asked about the material while placing an order and I shared the response I got from Eric. I was never asked by Atlas to share this info...I just did so at my own choosing.
 
Kevin,

Please forgive my wording. I did not mean to imply that you were part of any 'conspiracy'. You just happen to be the messenger is all.
Eric could have just as easily made this announcement himself as this will affect a lot of their clients. A lot of them frequent this forum. But then, where would the surprise be in that?

One could easily conclude that I'm not a happy camper at the moment and I don't mean to dump it on you. As far as I'm concerned, you & I have no problem.
 
I've been ordering from them for years now. Though just my repair work, they have always been helpful and friendly. I'm not a big order like some of you out there in AZ-land, but they don't thumb their nose at me because I'm not. I've ordered all the joint/butt materials they carry at one time or another and of course they've had it. When they ran out of anything or decided not to sell certain products, I have never run to a public forum to complain; I have always found another product that will do more than take care of the needs of my customers and myself. Should Atlas come onto the forums whenever a new product is available? Should they come running to the forums when they decide to no longer carry a product? NO. It would defeat the purpose of having their website or customer service. I frequent their website, though it's usually the same old stuff. I visit them whenever I'm in the area. The best things about Atlas are their friendliness and that they are NOT cuemakers themselves. I quit ordering Kamui tips cause nobody bought them. Do I still get people asking for them? Occasionally, but I'm not afraid to tell them that Kamuis weren't selling and I refuse to order something that isn't moving. I'm more than any kind of certain that others do that to. Now, for Eric to tell Kevin about the situation is normal. And it's also normal for people in Kevin's position to tell others about it. It's informative and appreciated that he would share said information with us, and quite right to. I now know that I won't be ordering that Mahogany Phenolic for 2 reasons now. BUT what Kevin did NOT do was take the moral LOW ground and insult the biggest supplier for OUR industry because he didn't have a good time ordering products previously. Sorry some of you didn't get what you were looking for in the past. It happens, BUT there are other avenues and options to get certain materials to which it seems you have taken advantage. Good on you.
 
I love brown phenolic, but I have always hated the look of that "mahogany" color of theirs. I won't miss it at all. Another CM on here was nice enough to share his source of a brown material that looks much nicer IMO. RIP "mahogany."
Mr H
 
I believe that the last batch WAS unusable. They sent me and my friend Elforyn(2 different sticks to 2 different people) with HEAVY white/chalky streaks on one side and we both called them up. I sent mine back for another piece and I'm not sure what he did with his. I don't know how difficult Elforyn is to produce, but I'm not sure anybody would be OK with what I got....not for 85.00 a foot..
 
KJ Cues said:
It might be interesting to explore this further.
Atlas Billiard Supply is like Sears in that they don't make anything other than money. They get their phenolic mtrl from their parent company, Atlas Fbre.
So are we to conclude that Atlas Fibre can't produce adequate mtrl. for their cue parts division? I suspect that there is more to this story than what you're being told. I also suspect that there is an underlying reason why YOU were chosen to make this announcement.

Atlas has chosen to make decisions that are not in the best interest of their client base, specifically CMs. My guess is that this mtrl., Mahogany phenolic, will no longer be available and it's not about a cosmetic issue. It's about overall sales. It's not worth their time to 'run' it anymore.
So why offer it to CMs in the first place? IMO, to test the waters.
Since the sales figures on the Mahogany don't meet their expectations, they won't waste their time on it.

This isn't the first time that Atlas has done this.
When was the last time you were able to get basic LBM ferrule size rod from Atlas?
How about .906" dia. dbl. blk. phen. rod? They still have a small amount of the tube in that size but I suspect that once that's gone, you won't see it again.
Not from Atlas anyway.
It's not cost effective for them to make a 'run' just for CMs. Simply stated, CMs don't buy enough of it to justify the production costs and no where else in the world is there a demand for it. Sorry CMs, you lose.

Why do I want .906" tube & rod?
Because I don't like making 'chips'. Chips are waste and I don't like to waste. Waste has a cost and not just for me. We all pay the price in some form or another. I understand the premise of 'going green'. My chips can't be recycled, they are total waste and that equates to wasted money. In the bigger picture, it's a waste of the diminishing resources of the world. Hopefully, Atlas will someday come to understand this. They are very happy to sell you tube & rod in 1" dia. because they run that every day. It's a default dia. for the industry. I don't think they really care about how much waste you'll produce.

What may be escaping Atlases vision is that I want what I want and there's a reason that I want it. If they don't want to carry LBM, that's fine, I know where to get it. As far as the Mahogany phenolic, I'd say buy it while you can because once it's gone, it's gone.
What it boils down to is down-sizing and stream-lining corporate costs. Unfortunately, it's at our expense. 'Here's what were offering; take it or leave it'.
Click to expand...

I would hate to deflate a good conspiracy theory - and I would never
accuse any corporation of not being greedy and uncaring - however,
IMHO you want to hang the wrong suspects.

IIUC - you comparison to Sears holds equally well for the parent corp,
Atlas Fiber. They describe themselves as manufacturing precision
turned and ground rods, etc, etc...

But I believe they purchase the plastics and 'machine' them, from companies like Spaulding, NVF, etc.

I don't think Atlas Fiber employs any mad scientist of their own who
actually dump polymers and such into vats and create plastic.

But I could be wrong.

Dale
 
If I remember correctly they had a problem once before with black linen not being up to par as well....
 
Obi-Wan Ke9ball said:
I've been ordering from them for years now. Though just my repair work, they have always been helpful and friendly. I'm not a big order like some of you out there in AZ-land, but they don't thumb their nose at me because I'm not. I've ordered all the joint/butt materials they carry at one time or another and of course they've had it. When they ran out of anything or decided not to sell certain products, I have never run to a public forum to complain; I have always found another product that will do more than take care of the needs of my customers and myself. Should Atlas come onto the forums whenever a new product is available? Should they come running to the forums when they decide to no longer carry a product? NO. It would defeat the purpose of having their website or customer service. I frequent their website, though it's usually the same old stuff. I visit them whenever I'm in the area. The best things about Atlas are their friendliness and that they are NOT cuemakers themselves. I quit ordering Kamui tips cause nobody bought them. Do I still get people asking for them? Occasionally, but I'm not afraid to tell them that Kamuis weren't selling and I refuse to order something that isn't moving. I'm more than any kind of certain that others do that to. Now, for Eric to tell Kevin about the situation is normal. And it's also normal for people in Kevin's position to tell others about it. It's informative and appreciated that he would share said information with us, and quite right to. I now know that I won't be ordering that Mahogany Phenolic for 2 reasons now. BUT what Kevin did NOT do was take the moral LOW ground and insult the biggest supplier for OUR industry because he didn't have a good time ordering products previously. Sorry some of you didn't get what you were looking for in the past. It happens, BUT there are other avenues and options to get certain materials to which it seems you have taken advantage. Good on you.
Click to expand...

Differing opinions are welcome. That's one of the objectives of this forum, to put it all out on the table and sort it out.
I'm also very pleased that you've had a successful relationship with Atlas. I have as well, up to this point, for almost 20 yrs.
And to be honest with you, this is the first time that one of my posts regarding Atlas hasn't been a rave review.

However, my sourcing of mtrls. isn't done to support my hobby of cue-making. This is by no means a hobby for me. It's the primary source of my income. I'm a full time professional cue maker, whose clients include some of the biggest players in the business. They deserve specific mtrls. and that's what they pay me for. I think I have a right to be picky. This isn't about my personal interests, it's about my clients and about my business.

Upon reflection, I have to assume a major portion of the responsibility for my position. I relied too heavily on just one supplier for the majority of my needs. My bad. Lesson learned, but I've been in the business long enough that I've picked-up a few phone numbers.

Now as Dale said, I "want to hang the wrong suspects". That's debatable.
I deal with Atlas directly. I don't deal with the people that supply them. I don't care where they get their mtrls. and I don't care what they do to these mtrls. once they arrive. That's their business.
As stated, I've been dealing with Atlas for almost 20 yrs. which should constitute a certain level of loyalty. I only ask for similar loyalty in return.
 
KJ Cues said:
Differing opinions are welcome. That's one of the objectives of this forum, to put it all out on the table and sort it out.
I'm also very pleased that you've had a successful relationship with Atlas. I have as well, up to this point, for almost 20 yrs.
And to be honest with you, this is the first time that one of my posts regarding Atlas hasn't been a rave review.

However, my sourcing of mtrls. isn't done to support my hobby of cue-making. This is by no means a hobby for me. It's the primary source of my income. I'm a full time professional cue maker, whose clients include some of the biggest players in the business. They deserve specific mtrls. and that's what they pay me for. I think I have a right to be picky. This isn't about my personal interests, it's about my clients and about my business.

Upon reflection, I have to assume a major portion of the responsibility for my position. I relied too heavily on just one supplier for the majority of my needs. My bad. Lesson learned, but I've been in the business long enough that I've picked-up a few phone numbers.

Now as Dale said, I "want to hang the wrong suspects". That's debatable.
I deal with Atlas directly. I don't deal with the people that supply them. I don't care where they get their mtrls. and I don't care what they do to these mtrls. once they arrive. That's their business.
As stated, I've been dealing with Atlas for almost 20 yrs. which should constitute a certain level of loyalty. I only ask for similar loyalty in return.
Click to expand...

What is there to debate about? My comment was ment to explain to you that Atlas Fiber doesn't make the plastics "in house".

So what is it, exactly, that you think they can do if they can't get
the specific materials and/or quality you require - take hostages.

Buying directly is tempting - but I've danced that dance, and it's a very
tuff game<metaphor shift>.

Before there was an Atlas, or a Prather, it was a real scramble to get
materials - even if you could find a supplier - Minimimum order requirements
would kill you. That problem today is much worse than it was way
back then. Ask Dick<rhncue> about his expierence with a phenolic
source that got gobbled up by a bigger corp.

Perhaps the time has come to set up a Cuemakers Co-op.
Would you want to be the point man?

Dale<new head of the KJ for president of the co-op campaign>
 
Last edited:
pdcue said:
What is there to debate about? My comment was ment to explain to you that Atlas Fiber doesn't make the plastics "in house".

So what is it, exactly, that you think they can do if they can't get
the specific materials and/or quality you require - take hostages.

Buying directly is tempting - but I've danced that dance, and it's a very
tuff game<metaphor shift>.

Before there was an Atlas, or a Prather, it was a real scramble to get
materials - even if you could find a supplier - Minimimum order requirements
would kill you. That problem today is much worse today than it was way
back then. Ask Dick<rhncue> about his expierence with a phenolic
source that got gobbled up by a bigger corp.

Perhaps the time has come to set up a Cuemakers Co-op.
Would you want to be the point man?

Dale<new head of the KJ for president of the co-op campaign>
Click to expand...

There already are two co-ops that I know of and Atlas is on the Vendors list:
The American Cuemakers Association
The International Cuemakers Association
 
pescadoman said:
There already are two co-ops that I know of and Atlas is on the Vendors list:
The American Cuemakers Association
The International Cuemakers Association
Click to expand...

Did I miss a memo?

These are Cuemaker Associations - not supply purchasing co-operatives.

Dale<who figgured it all out by himself>
 
pdcue said:
What is there to debate about? My comment was ment to explain to you that Atlas Fiber doesn't make the plastics "in house".

So what is it, exactly, that you think they can do if they can't get
the specific materials and/or quality you require - take hostages.

Buying directly is tempting - but I've danced that dance, and it's a very
tuff game<metaphor shift>.

Before there was an Atlas, or a Prather, it was a real scramble to get
materials - even if you could find a supplier - Minimimum order requirements
would kill you. That problem today is much worse than it was way
back then. Ask Dick<rhncue> about his expierence with a phenolic
source that got gobbled up by a bigger corp.

Perhaps the time has come to set up a Cuemakers Co-op.
Would you want to be the point man?

Dale<new head of the KJ for president of the co-op campaign>
Click to expand...

In all honesty Dale, as long as you've been around here, you'd think of all people you'd be able to identify a good old fashion rant when you see one. You've probably seen your fair share of them too I'll bet.
Look, they have their purpose. It's about venting before the gaskets go. It's a personal thing. But if this keeps up, we're going to have to pay Kevin some rent for the use of his thread.

The hostage thing sounds interesting though. Has that ever worked for you? Or maybe organizing a posse to make a run on Skokie. I'm beginning to like the way you think.

At the end of the day, they'll either carry what I want or they won't. If they don't have it, I'll get it somewhere else. Very simple.
When I find what I want, I may even sell my excess right here on AZB. I'll keep you posted. :wink:
 
Well, I like the stuff and I'll be pretty pissed off if they quit carrying it.
It's one of the very few things I buy from them.
 
pdcue said:
Did I miss a memo?

These are Cuemaker Associations - not supply purchasing co-operatives.

Dale<who figgured it all out by himself>
Click to expand...

You are correct. However, they are the closest you are going to get for having a voice.

I misused co-op.
 
guys,i will buy a batch of the dark brown phenolic that the people i get the yellow micarta from make.

i have no clue if it's red,brown or what,but i do know the black,tan and white i have been getting from them is better quality than the aforementioned company.

i have just never needed $400+ worth of the dark brown so i have never tried it.i usually get .900x.600" and 1.25x.875" to save money and waste.i have sold a bunch and am aware that most guys need bigger pieces of the butt so would 1.38x.750" be the best size for everyone?and will the above mentioned size for joints be OK?

i'll let you guys know when it comes in and what it looks like,whether it's the old red color or the new mahogany type color.

should be 3-4 weeks tops.i will post here but also make a new thread.
 
Mahogany phenolic

masonh said:
guys,i will buy a batch of the dark brown phenolic that the people i get the yellow micarta from make.

i have no clue if it's red,brown or what,but i do know the black,tan and white i have been getting from them is better quality than the aforementioned company.

i have just never needed $400+ worth of the dark brown so i have never tried it.i usually get .900x.600" and 1.25x.875" to save money and waste.i have sold a bunch and am aware that most guys need bigger pieces of the butt so would 1.38x.750" be the best size for everyone?and will the above mentioned size for joints be OK?

i'll let you guys know when it comes in and what it looks like,whether it's the old red color or the new mahogany type color.

should be 3-4 weeks tops.i will post here but also make a new thread.
Click to expand...

Thanks Masonh.
 
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