A plea to CSI regarding SVB vs Ko

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Obviously a race to 21 is too short to decide who is better player. Based on previous "best player" megafights, race to 50 is minimum benchmark to decide better player. eg. Color of Money Earl vs Efren is race to 120, Money King 1-Yang v Orcullo race to 60, Money King 2-Yang v Orcullo race to 50.
Race to 21 is slightly longer than final of a major and is not enough

With these 2 best breakers, putting packs of 5 to 10 is common. Unless one of them suddenly superhuman and runpack of 50, winners break may be toss of coin.
cos likehood is they will both split the first 80 or 90 racks and then either one of them will run pack of 5 or 10 to reach finish line.
Alternate break while less exciting may be fairer. Cos then each of them will have to "hold their serve" and win when they break :D
 

btown

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
-2 But u we haven't fired you yet so don't sweat it... :thumbup:

So lets try to stay on topic and get this race extended what do you guys say!
 

Playin4Dinner

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This thread is funny to me. Perhaps football games should be 12 quarters so we can really see who is the best team. I've seen teams win and lose because there wasn't enough time for one team to catch up so let's extend it.

You see, this is one reason pool hasn't progressed. No one wants intensity, parody, and excitement. Ask yourself, would rather see one match with a 50-21 final score or a match with a 21-20 score with a rematch pending?

The match is set and we will do whats best for pool. Thanks for talking!

If it's intensity and excitement you are looking for...

How about alt break, best of 5 sets, races to 5??? (jk obv)


As far as rematch pending.... This match has been talked about for maybe the last 5 years... We might not ever see them play outside of a tournament again. THIS is the issue at hand and the sole reason for op and thread...

Final question - What is best for pool???
 
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Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
-2 But u we haven't fired you yet so don't sweat it... :thumbup:

So lets try to stay on topic and get this race extended what do you guys say!

I think this thread has ended and I could care less about the match now. JT
 

klone

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What's best for pool...? Isn't that about the loyal pool playing fans who are passionate enough to participate in this forum? Wow...

This thread is funny to me. Perhaps football games should be 12 quarters so we can really see who is the best team. I've seen teams win and lose because there wasn't enough time for one team to catch up so let's extend it.



You see, this is one reason pool hasn't progressed. No one wants intensity, parody, and excitement. Ask yourself, would rather see one match with a 50-21 final score or a match with a 21-20 score with a rematch pending?



The match is set and we will do whats best for pool. Thanks for talking!
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This thread is funny to me. Perhaps football games should be 12 quarters so we can really see who is the best team. I've seen teams win and lose because there wasn't enough time for one team to catch up so let's extend it.

You see, this is one reason pool hasn't progressed. No one wants intensity, parody, and excitement. Ask yourself, would rather see one match with a 50-21 final score or a match with a 21-20 score with a rematch pending?

The match is set and we will do whats best for pool. Thanks for talking!

Parody or parity?! Or are you playing a Jedi mind trick on us, oz?:)

Is there any chance the possibility of extending the set will be considered by the principals (and principles;))
 

CSI - Ozzy

Banned
Clarification

Easy folks...I wasn't trying to stir up any emotions. Just wanted to point our what we believe is better for this event and the sport. I do think the logic is flawed with the super long races. Where does it end? A race to 21 could easily be 3 hours and most people won't watch it all anyway...it's a proven fact.

I apologize if my comments were communicated poorly. Thank you.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This thread is funny to me. Perhaps football games should be 12 quarters so we can really see who is the best team. I've seen teams win and lose because there wasn't enough time for one team to catch up so let's extend it.

You see, this is one reason pool hasn't progressed. No one wants intensity, parody, and excitement. Ask yourself, would rather see one match with a 50-21 final score or a match with a 21-20 score with a rematch pending?

The match is set and we will do whats best for pool. Thanks for talking!

So those who want a longer race are one of the reasons pool hasn't progressed. A big reason you think? Very nice!!!

I have a few suggestions for a new CSI slogan

1. The customer is the problem

2. The customer is always wrong

3. The customer knows worst.


Great Job Ozzy- Have you thought about partnering with TVMike?

PS- YOU are funny-not "haha funny" though more like dumb ass funny
 
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btown

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Easy folks...I wasn't trying to stir up any emotions. Just wanted to point our what we believe is better for this event and the sport. I do think the logic is flawed with the super long races. Where does it end? A race to 21 could easily be 3 hours and most people won't watch it all anyway...it's a proven fact.

I apologize if my comments were communicated poorly. Thank you.

To late your forest of az fans is burning like crazy. I think the only way to stop this fire is by extending the race now IMO...
 

JumpinJoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ozzy,
A rematch? These 2 may never be in the same building in the U.S. in the next 5/10 years. That's not a good answer.

I say if the pkayers want a longer race let them. Ask them. There will be much more bet then the free 5k. Perhaps they will just play at Best Billiards if they want an extended race and its not granted.
 

emptypockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This thread is funny to me. Perhaps football games should be 12 quarters so we can really see who is the best team. I've seen teams win and lose because there wasn't enough time for one team to catch up so let's extend it.

You see, this is one reason pool hasn't progressed. No one wants intensity, parody, and excitement. Ask yourself, would rather see one match with a 50-21 final score or a match with a 21-20 score with a rematch pending?

The match is set and we will do whats best for pool. Thanks for talking!

Pretty poor response IMHO. :mad: I'm one that's all for intensity, parody, and excitement. You're having arguably two of the best 10 ball breakers in the game in a match. IMHO one race to 21 may not be long enough - if either SVB or KO hits the other with 6 or 7 packs it may be too hard to overcome going to 21. While with a race to 50 there's more opportunity for both of them to run some packages or overcome a deficit. Seeing a score of 50-49 with a rematch pending or a score of 50-21 where one of them broke and ran over 50% of the racks is exciting to me.

But, since you're going to "do whats best for pool" I'll shut up and go back into my lurker mode. Thanks for not having me talk anymore. :rolleyes:
 

poolhustler

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Easy folks...I wasn't trying to stir up any emotions. Just wanted to point our what we believe is better for this event and the sport. I do think the logic is flawed with the super long races. Where does it end? A race to 21 could easily be 3 hours and most people won't watch it all anyway...it's a proven fact.

I apologize if my comments were communicated poorly. Thank you.

No one is asking for a "super long race(s)". We are simply asking for a slightly longer race so we can ascertain once and for all who the better player is. Not too much to ask in my opinion. Johnny needs his Geritol, I WILL be watching !!!
 

bigchiefnd

red and black u like that
Silver Member
This thread is funny to me. Perhaps football games should be 12 quarters so we can really see who is the best team. I've seen teams win and lose because there wasn't enough time for one team to catch up so let's extend it.

You see, this is one reason pool hasn't progressed. No one wants intensity, parody, and excitement. Ask yourself, would rather see one match with a 50-21 final score or a match with a 21-20 score with a rematch pending?

The match is set and we will do whats best for pool. Thanks for talking!

What is funny to me is an inane comparison between the length of a football game and a billiard exhibition. If you couldn't find excitement in that 50-21 match maybe its time for a new line of work. You sound like some kind of fascist dictator, "We will do whats best for pool! What a load, get over yourself.
 

JumpinJoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I dont understand why its a big deal to CSI, It has to be on a day when the pro invitational is not playing, so whys this so bad.

Should the fans not have a say? They are the ones pool needs, there are already enough people trying to be the chief or H.N.I.C
 
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Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Easy folks...I wasn't trying to stir up any emotions. Just wanted to point our what we believe is better for this event and the sport. I do think the logic is flawed with the super long races. Where does it end? A race to 21 could easily be 3 hours and most people won't watch it all anyway...it's a proven fact.

I apologize if my comments were communicated poorly. Thank you.

Use a clock. JT
 

PhilosopherKing

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
This thread is funny to me. Perhaps football games should be 12 quarters so we can really see who is the best team. I've seen teams win and lose because there wasn't enough time for one team to catch up so let's extend it.

You see, this is one reason pool hasn't progressed. No one wants intensity, parody, and excitement. Ask yourself, would rather see one match with a 50-21 final score or a match with a 21-20 score with a rematch pending?

The match is set and we will do whats best for pool. Thanks for talking!

So, the race is to 21 to spare Ko the embarrassment of having to play Shane a long set?

Very diplomatic... put Shane on a leash in order to avoid an international incident.
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
This thread is funny to me. Perhaps football games should be 12 quarters so we can really see who is the best team. I've seen teams win and lose because there wasn't enough time for one team to catch up so let's extend it.

You see, this is one reason pool hasn't progressed. No one wants intensity, parody, and excitement. Ask yourself, would rather see one match with a 50-21 final score or a match with a 21-20 score with a rematch pending?

The match is set and we will do whats best for pool. Thanks for talking!

I happen to agree. With a really long set ( race to 50+), if it is a close match, it still tells you nothing about who is best since it was close. If it is not close, then the only thing definitive is who was better that day. On top of that, it becomes a bore fest. Yeah you may still see some great pool, but most of the excitement is gone. One or both of the players typically go into coasting or give up mode as well, no longer making an effort to play their very best since they are either so far ahead and know they already have the win sewn up, or too far behind and know that there is no hope to make up that much ground.

On the flip side, I like the idea of playing for a long time to determine the "true best". But the way to do it is with multiple medium races, preferably over several days to eliminate the fact that everyone has an off day. Races to 15 are probably about perfect. Do five of them, three sets the first day, and two the second day. Both players always know they have a chance to win the set at any time regardless of score so you always get their full effort. And the fans know a come back is always still realistic as well so it maintains more excitement. Plus the matches are closer for even more excitement.

It still leaves no doubt about who is better because of how many games and how long they played. It is probably even more conclusive since you know both were actually giving their full effort the whole time, and even more so when it is over several days to eliminate someone having an "off day". And for those that think the total number of games won is a better indicator of who was best as opposed to sets won, then just count up each of their total wins between all sets and you can use that in your own mind. With multiple shorter races there will be plenty of total games played for you to compare the two.

If it is only going to be one set though, 30 is enough to be a pretty good indicator of who was better that day. And 21 even gives a fairly reliable indication. Race to 30 is long enough to be pretty conclusive, but short enough that they both still give their best effort, and matches are more exciting since they are closer and also because a come from behind win is still possible.

The one thing that makes me laugh though is that 95% of the people crying about how the most important thing of all is a long race so that the best player can be conclusively determined want the format to be winner breaks. There is zero doubt whatsoever that alternate breaks gives a more conclusive result about who is better. Now whether that is what you prefer watching or not is a whole separate issue, but if the most important thing to you is truly to see who is best then it has to be alternate breaks. They both get equal opportunities at the table just like in baseball or tennis or football or basketball or most any other sport there is, and the best player will win in a longer race under alternate breaks guaranteed. That is why baseball has innings instead of just being a race to 10 runs for example. Because it better determines the best.
 

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
I dont understand why its a big deal to CSI, It has to be on a day when the pro invitational is not playing, so whys this so bad.

From the players perspective it would actually be a huge benefit to spar against the "other" best player in the world in a race to 50 a day before an event like that. They wouls both be in dead stroke the next day and god save the two guys that draw them in round 1.

SVB asked for Ko flat out in one of the last TAR podcasts, he knew this was a key match for him and Ko both in their careers. I am sure he would want a longer race. He knows as well as anyone this will not settle anything between them.
 
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