A plea to CSI regarding SVB vs Ko

[JB Cases]

And until you give short races a fair try you can't say whether they would be more popular than long races or not. Agreed?

And considering that long race matches have failed to attract many viewers (and I agree that we don't know for sure all the reasons why), I think it makes sense to find out if something else would work better or not.

I guess. Seems to me that Mosconi cup short race ppv#s would be an indicator.

Of course there you have the added wrinkle of actual television promotion.

What do streamers have in comparison for getting their events in front of potential customers? Pretty much nothing. I am not sure but I'd be surprised if all the social media marketing - whatever it was - led to the upcoming events being viewed by more than 100,000 potential customers. And that's being hugely generous I think.

I tried to go and buy the Chip Compton/Appleton match - it's not even listed on the streamer's page as of last night that I could find. I just don't see the type of Barnum and Bailey style promotion that encourages a full house on show night.

People should look up and read the story of Sly Livingston. He promoted exhibitions in the 40s I think. He went from town to town doing the promotion a week before his players were due to arrive - when they did they played to packed rooms. I don't see that type of promotion happening now in real life or on the web.

And until we have that I think that the length of the races is not really the issue.

 

[Slider]

Were they unique viewers? Or the same people that came back to the match 10 different times like most people did.

I might have accounted for about three of those viewers, since my feed was cut a couple of times, but I still think I'm unique.

In any case I was hooked throughout the whole thing, and after it was over, I felt as if it had been about two hours long. I'm pretty sure it garnered the viewership it did because of all the spirited woofing and wagering that preceded it, and the fact that a relative "unknown" (at least in the US) had the cojones to call out Van Boening for the cash.

What should be taken into account regarding the SVB/Ko match, is that it may be a much closer contest, meaning that even at a race to 21, there is a possibility that it may run as long as 41 games. And if there is a lot of safety play, that could run into some serious time.

Having said that, I still would prefer a longer race than 21. Fifty might be a bit much though.

Regarding the alternating break format, I have been watching and playing "winner breaks" since, like, forever, so alt-break feels very strange to me, and reeks of the "participation trophy" mentality that is running rampant through today's sports. It seems as if once a player gets even one game behind, it's like watching him run through wet concrete trying to catch up.

Ken

 

[Nick B]

The SVB vs. Nikos had over 1800 viewers and the wider the disparity, the more viewers it got... So I don't buy that.

Jaden

For Free.

Great Pizza for $5 a slice and you sell $200 all day.
Bad Pizza for free and you have a line up around the block.


Nick

 

[poolcuemaster]

How in the heck

Can you compare football for 12 quarters to be in the same realm as a pro pool match. There ain't 10 nfl players combined that could walk off the field without help after 12 12ths, or did I miss something about SVB and Ko beating each other with a break cue. Race to 40 or 50 has my vote and I never missed a single Tar match so I ain't afraid to by a PPV.--Leonard

PS you backed out of the hole you dug like a crawfish Ozzy, but we can read between the lines.

 

[naji]

Can you please increase the length of the race?

We just saw SVB obliterate Ekonomopolous in a race to 50. Had the race been to 21 SVB still would have won but given the score at the end a race to 21 simply would not have truly let the fans witness the true chasm that exists between SVB and Ekonomopolous.

Ko has for "years" been one of the only players on this planet that many people think may have the speed to actually compete with SVB in a long set, he may have the ability to play at that same high level, but win or lose a race to 21 is not going to answer the question. it is too short and will not give both players ample time to get comfortable after the early match jitters, figure out the way the table breaks, and show us their true top gear and how they truly compare as players.

Getting Ko and SVB together in the same room at the same time to play each other took years, please dont blow this opportunity on a short race to 21. Make it a race to 50 so we can finally see if Ko and SVB are really as close as many think they are. They have already played shorter races in tournaments, we have already seen that and already have results from those matches and they have not answered the question everyone really wants to know the answer to. Make this a race to 50 so we can finally "know" where these two stand.

It is strictly up to the players, what ever they like, provided the sponsors and promoters are in agreement. Race to 21 is at least 2-3 hours, race to 50 is 3-5 hours; if i were them i will go with less work , it is the same prize money, and these pros do not enjoy playing as much as you and I, it is work for them, travel, and lots of headache!

 

[Slider]

There ain't 10 nfl players combined that could walk off the field without help after 12 12ths.

I'm not a big football fan, but I'm pretty sure they're playing "12 12ths" right now. They just call it "four quarters".

Ken

 

[Poolplaya9]

People watch football games for 4-6 hours when you consider the pre-game shows along with the actual game.

Baseball is played in series that go on for days.

The Olympics.

Mini-series.

People will watch whatever can hold their interest.

Well pool just doesn't hold people's interest like other sports, even for hard core pool fans. And all those things you mentioned are free to watch too. The match we are discussing is PPV. And most long race pool matches have been PPV. Most people aren't going to pay for something they are only going to watch part of. They don't see it as "it is still worth the X dollars even though I am only going to watch 25% of it". They see it as "I am not going to pay full price for something I will only get 25% use of".

And with the exception of a rare event that somebody streams free out of the goodness of their heart, almost all gambling matches and particularly the long race ones are PPV. And that isn't likely to change with the low viewer numbers that can't attract enough sponsors to make the free model work, so we have to think and talk in terms of pool matches being PPV, because that is what they usually are and will continue to be.

And going back to football (or any other sport), what happens when the score gets lopsided enough that it isn't likely the person/team that is down can come back to win? The fans start leaving in droves from the stadium heading for home, and the people at home start changing the channel. With long races you get too many matches (the majority actually) where a come back isn't likely even when the match is only half over and it becomes an anticlimactic bore fest. With shorter races a come back is always possible and keeps the excitement up.

If you want to do long matches though, and I'm not against them, you just have to do them as a "best of" several shorter races, not one big long race, so they maintain their excitement. Three races to 17 or 5 races to 10 is a lot better than one race to 50, and the total number of games played will likely be similar and therefore it is still just as conclusive as to who was better that day. Plus there is more pressure on both players at all times that way and they will both always be giving 100% not coasting or in give up mode.

 

[Poolplaya9]

I am not sure but I'd be surprised if all the social media marketing - whatever it was - led to the upcoming events being viewed by more than 100,000 potential customers. And that's being hugely generous I think.

I don't see that type of promotion happening now in real life or on the web.

And until we have that I think that the length of the races is not really the issue.

They are two separate issues. I agree that promotion could be improved and nobody reaches as much market as they could. But the issue we have been discussing, which is completely separate, is what format could get the bigger percentage to pay for a match from whatever market we are reaching. I don't know for sure, but I think it is worth trying a new format when the first one has failed so miserably.

 

[shoreboy]

dumb

Can you compare football for 12 quarters to be in the same realm as a pro pool match. There ain't 10 nfl players combined that could walk off the field without help after 12 12ths, or did I miss something about SVB and Ko beating each other with a break cue. Race to 40 or 50 has my vote and I never missed a single Tar match so I ain't afraid to by a PPV.--Leonard

PS you backed out of the hole you dug like a crawfish Ozzy, but we can read between the lines.

Seriously? I pretty sure he was making his point thru exaggeration. But if you're not to bright, maybe you think it's literal.

btw, what did he say to "dig a hole?" Lets examine what he said:

"This thread is funny to me." OK...nothing wrong with that.

"Perhaps football games should be 12 quarters so we can really see who is the best team. I've seen teams win and lose because there wasn't enough time for one team to catch up so let's extend it." He's exaggerating but it's a good point. Where is the line? 3-4 hours isn'r enough to tell who the better player is that day?

"You see, this is one reason pool hasn't progressed. No one wants intensity, parody, and excitement. Ask yourself, would rather see one match with a 50-21 final score or a match with a 21-20 score with a rematch pending?" He gives his opinion on something he thinks hold pool back. So what? Just because you don't agree, he dug a hole?

"The match is set and we will do whats best for pool. Thanks for talking!" He says the match is set which probably means it's been agreed to be the players, sponsors, etc. should he change it for a handful of people on a forum?

He apologized but I dont know why. He didnt say anything out of line. This place is becoming a cesspool.

 

[leto1776]

Race to 50?

Are these guys poolplayers, or wusses? F that weak race to 50. Race to 500. Restroom and meal breaks only,max 15 minutes. And for the fans? PPV, but marathon only, just like the players. $500, and you can only login once. Log out, you're out.

Time to separate the men from the spineless jellyfish out there :grin-devilish:

 

[Nostroke]

Seriously? I pretty sure he was making his point thru exaggeration. But if you're not to bright, maybe you think it's literal.

btw, what did he say to "dig a hole?" Lets examine what he said:

"This thread is funny to me." OK...nothing wrong with that.

"Perhaps football games should be 12 quarters so we can really see who is the best team. I've seen teams win and lose because there wasn't enough time for one team to catch up so let's extend it." He's exaggerating but it's a good point. Where is the line? 3-4 hours isn'r enough to tell who the better player is that day?

"You see, this is one reason pool hasn't progressed. No one wants intensity, parody, and excitement. Ask yourself, would rather see one match with a 50-21 final score or a match with a 21-20 score with a rematch pending?" He gives his opinion on something he thinks hold pool back. So what? Just because you don't agree, he dug a hole?

"The match is set and we will do whats best for pool. Thanks for talking!" He says the match is set which probably means it's been agreed to be the players, sponsors, etc. should he change it for a handful of people on a forum?

He apologized but I dont know why. He didnt say anything out of line. This place is becoming a cesspool.

Your post is funny to me.......... (nothing wrong with that)

 

[shoreboy]

Ok?

Your post is funny to me.......... (nothing wrong with that)

Out of those 7,856 posts, have any been positive? Congrats, you're a floater in the cesspool, Nostroke.

 

[CreeDo]

Ozzy's a good guy, and this is a little more hostility than his comments warranted.
He's right... many pool fans don't understand what makes for good entertainment.

You guys act like finding out who has the bigger pool dick,
is the most satisfying outcome possible. It's not.

Once you "prove" one player is the best, all the excitement for that
particular matchup is *gone*. There are no questions left to answer.
A rematch would be seen as unnecessary and boring.
Nobody is going to pay to see SVB vs. Dechaine, round 2.
Nobody is going to pay to see SVB vs. Nikos, round 2.

The only reason I would like to see a longer race, is so I can spectate many
hours of great playing, regardless of who is dominating.
And because I believe that even a really long race isn't absolute proof -
Even playing races to 100, we've had shane win 1 and lose 1 vs. alex.

If the players are very close, no race is really long enough, so you might as well
just pick a number that won't require calling out of work for 2 days.

 

[JumpinJoe]

It is strictly up to the players, what ever they like, provided the sponsors and promoters are in agreement. Race to 21 is at least 2-3 hours, race to 50 is 3-5 hours; if i were them i will go with less work , it is the same prize money, and these pros do not enjoy playing as much as you and I, it is work for them, travel, and lots of headache!

That is the problem. It is not just the 5k csi is putting up for the winner. I am certain Mars is staking SVB for all they can wager on the rail. I'm sure he will get at least 10k down. And SVB wants a longer race.

 

[Jaden]

It's not what he said but the way he said it.

Ozzy's a good guy, and this is a little more hostility than his comments warranted.
He's right... many pool fans don't understand what makes for good entertainment.

You guys act like finding out who has the bigger pool dick,
is the most satisfying outcome possible. It's not.

Once you "prove" one player is the best, all the excitement for that
particular matchup is *gone*. There are no questions left to answer.
A rematch would be seen as unnecessary and boring.
Nobody is going to pay to see SVB vs. Dechaine, round 2.
Nobody is going to pay to see SVB vs. Nikos, round 2.

The only reason I would like to see a longer race, is so I can spectate many
hours of great playing, regardless of who is dominating.
And because I believe that even a really long race isn't absolute proof -
Even playing races to 100, we've had shane win 1 and lose 1 vs. alex.

If the players are very close, no race is really long enough, so you might as well
just pick a number that won't require calling out of work for 2 days.

There was a much better way without being dismissive of your customers to state what he stated.

My reply described how he could have responded and how it sounded like he responded.

A simple "We will take your concerns under advisement for future endeavors; however, the particulars for this match have already been agreed upon and attempting to change them at this point would not be fair to all involved parties".

Nothing more would've been necessary. People wouldn't have felt like their opinions didn't matter and the end result would've been the same.

opinions are like assholes, everyone has them and they all stink, but people don't want you sniffing their ass and telling them they should wipe better.

Jaden

 

[itsfroze]

I noticed you have 19 posts, I was looking at this one,

04-23-2012, 07:11 AM
Replies: 45
The Action Pool Tour (APT): May 5-6, VIP Billiards, Catonsville, MD!
Views: 3,098
Posted By shoreboy "Bump for a fantastic tour!"

Just wondering do you by chance know Ozzy, didn't he start The Action Pool Tour in 2011 and run it for a while.

 

[MahnaMahna]

Are these guys poolplayers, or wusses? F that weak race to 50. Race to 500. Restroom and meal breaks only,max 15 minutes. And for the fans? PPV, but marathon only, just like the players. $500, and you can only login once. Log out, you're out.



Time to separate the men from the spineless jellyfish out there :grin-devilish:

Lol your a joke!

 

[Celtic]

Or to put it another way, essentially what you are saying is that 200 fans (the amount that would buy the long race PPV format) is the majority. Really? When you consider how many pool fans are out there, you think 200 is a majority? That is silly. No, the majority is the 100,000 pool fans that didn't want the long race format, and who proved it by not buying it.

What is silly is if you actually think there are 100,000 people out there that would even think of "buying" a PPV of pool of ANY length of race between ANY two players.

Of the people who "actually may" purchase a PPV, and who have "proven" that fact by buying PPV's of this sport in the past, the majority of "those" people want a longer race.

New Coke did not lose the Coca Cola company a bunch of customers who already drank Pepsi, they lost their customers who drank Coke Classic and who had proven they liked the original coke for decades prior to the change that blew up in the Coca Cola companies face.

CSI is not going to get a bunch of customers who do not enjoy watching pool to suddenly "pay" to watch a short set. They "may" lose many customers who "do" enjoy watching pool matches and have already in the past proven that by purchasing PPV's in the past. You do not progress a sport and gain more viewers by alienating the fans and customer base you already have. That should be self evident but so many people in the pool industry seem to be oblivious to that fact.

 

[fastereddy]

Shane owns all except some guy named Francisco Bustamante!!!
Not sure about now but Shane still might not like it!
Would be the only guy I might put my cash on against Shane since
Last 2 times I bet on him he beat Shane.

Note, I'm sure they have played more than I've watched and Shane May have won but Busty has owned him every time I was there to watch in person.

Long story short I think Busty gives him the best game of any.

 

[shoreboy]

Yep

I noticed you have 19 posts, I was looking at this one,

04-23-2012, 07:11 AM
Replies: 45
The Action Pool Tour (APT): May 5-6, VIP Billiards, Catonsville, MD!
Views: 3,098
Posted By shoreboy "Bump for a fantastic tour!"

Just wondering do you by chance know Ozzy, didn't he start The Action Pool Tour in 2011 and run it for a while.

Yes. I know him and it is ashame that someone who cares about pool gets blasted by people who don't do nothing. Whatever. I'm going to take my friends advice and stay off here.