Please define, in your own words, what a successful "break out" means while playing 9 ball?
A poll
- Thread starter Luxury
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Please define, in your own words, what a successful "break out" means while playing 9 ball?
If you go back a few pages, someone (or more) posted that a breakout can either be successful or unsuccessful, but either way it is still a breakout. If the cluster is broken up with no shot= unsuccessful breakout. If the cluster is broken up with a shot= successful breakout. Either way (according to other posters) it WAS a breakout. This can be argued until the cows come home as it is all about the way each individual sees it.
I'll just let the results of the poll do the talking
!!!Maniac (it's only opinions here, as usual)
That's the problem -- nowhere in the bet does it say "successful" break out -- just a break out. That one word would've made all the difference in the world. A "successful" break out means that the break out occurred and offered up the expected subsequent shot.
Semantics, and sometimes pedantics!
-Sean
That's the problem -- nowhere in the bet does it say "successful" break out -- just a break out. That one word would've made all the difference in the world. A "successful" break out means that the break out occurred and offered up the expected subsequent shot.
Semantics, and sometimes pedantics!
-Sean
Yep!!!
Maniac
I hear what you guys are saying but to break something out, in pool terms, means to remove clusters making balls available to pocket.
I say the bet should be a push because the bettors didn't qualify the bet properly.
I say the bet should be a push because the bettors didn't qualify the bet properly.
If you go back a few pages, someone (or more) posted that a breakout can either be successful or unsuccessful, but either way it is still a breakout. If the cluster is broken up with no shot= unsuccessful breakout. If the cluster is broken up with a shot= successful breakout. Either way (according to other posters) it WAS a breakout. This can be argued until the cows come home as it is all about the way each individual sees it.
I'll just let the results of the poll do the talking
Maniac (it's only opinions here, as usual)
That's the problem -- nowhere in the bet does it say "successful" break out -- just a break out. That one word would've made all the difference in the world. A "successful" break out means that the break out occurred and offered up the expected subsequent shot.
Semantics, and sometimes pedantics!
-Sean
A break out would be where balls are tied up together, you hit into them and move them into a different position. That was the wording of the bet, nothing about a good shot after that. A non-successful break out would be when you miss the cluster, or hit it so soft that they remain tied up. Would I be HAPPY to just hit the balls in a game and get no shot? No, unless I can get a decent safety out of it. In the way the shot was hit, there was some separation of the balls, so the break out was good.
Having a no shot after the break out does not change the fact that the balls were tied up, and then were moved apart.
I think if one argues that the break out failed because there was not good shot afterward, one would also have to argue that in my beak example, you failed the break if you don't pocket a ball and get shape on the next shot, even if you hit it at the speed the bet was for. I don't see anyone that's even a bit reasonable saying that a bet for a 30mph break can be lost if you hit it that fast but no balls drop and you don't have shape. Heck, even if you jump the cue-ball off the table, unless the bet actually stated that you can't foul on the shot, it would be a won bet if you hit 30mph.
ok, let's look at "your route". What then makes a ball available to a pocket? If there is now a bank, and you really suck at banks, do you have no shot available? If you are playing Brumback, he's odds on favorite for a bank. What if you only left a combo?
Are you saying that the bet is only good if the guy making the breakout also has the skill to make the resulting shot? If the balls are frozen, there is a shot. Not many have the skill to make it, but if they are frozen, and especially if there are other balls on the table, there is always a shot. Where do you then "draw the line" on what is and what is not a shot?
The bet is for a break out. How many times has a player broken the balls out, only to not have a decent shot? Many times........if the guy broke the balls apart, he wins.
I liken it to a bet that "you can't kick 2 rails and make a good hit on that ball", then once he does it it, it's no good cause he didn't kick safe.
I liken it to a bet that "you can't kick 2 rails and make a good hit on that ball", then once he does it it, it's no good cause he didn't kick safe.
With "Runout" as a username it only makes sense to vote A>>:grin:
Even though there is a huge majority that went with B, 30 is a large number for A. I need to make sure that any of those 30 guys that I may bet with we have every possible outcome in writing.
For tails, I will have to make sure we agree on the minimum number of spins the coin takes, that we both agree on what "tails" is, along with a picture of the coin in the "tails" position, also on which surface it's OK for the coin to land on, if "rolling" into tails is the same as "bouncing" into tails, how much wind is OK to have before the flip is invalid, if we are able to use properly the coin in a machine to by a soda after the flip (it's not a successful coin if you can't use it after all), if a Canadian coin is OK to be used.
For tails, I will have to make sure we agree on the minimum number of spins the coin takes, that we both agree on what "tails" is, along with a picture of the coin in the "tails" position, also on which surface it's OK for the coin to land on, if "rolling" into tails is the same as "bouncing" into tails, how much wind is OK to have before the flip is invalid, if we are able to use properly the coin in a machine to by a soda after the flip (it's not a successful coin if you can't use it after all), if a Canadian coin is OK to be used.
Hilarious.
I purposely didn't read through the whole thread, to avoid being swayed by comments....so I have no idea if this was resolved yet.....but I voted B
If you separate a cluster of balls, it's a break out.
If he just touched them I can see the question being brought up...but the way it stands/as it was written:
1) if he spread them 6" then he certainly put enough space between them to make them shootable once he gets position on them.....if that's not the definition of a break out, I don't know what is
2) nothing was mentioned about ending up with another makeable shot
3) even if breaking out the balls didn't leave him a shot, but left him with an opportunity for a better safety, that's not as good as continuing to shoot, but the result was still advantageous to player B
4) You're not always planning to shoot one of the clustered balls next, maybe you're breaking them out for later. I'm assuming in this case they were the only other balls to play, but let's say for a minute they weren't: I pocket a ball, break out a cluster, shoot a couple hangers then go back to the formerly clustered balls...that was still a successful breakout shot in my opinion
edit: just read through what I didn't read before voting. Still in favor of B for all the reasons above
and....I'm not surprised he didn't want to bet more about you getting the majority of the votes LOL Sounds like he knew you won it fairly and wanted to get out of paying with a weak excuse
If you separate a cluster of balls, it's a break out.
If he just touched them I can see the question being brought up...but the way it stands/as it was written:
1) if he spread them 6" then he certainly put enough space between them to make them shootable once he gets position on them.....if that's not the definition of a break out, I don't know what is
2) nothing was mentioned about ending up with another makeable shot
3) even if breaking out the balls didn't leave him a shot, but left him with an opportunity for a better safety, that's not as good as continuing to shoot, but the result was still advantageous to player B
4) You're not always planning to shoot one of the clustered balls next, maybe you're breaking them out for later. I'm assuming in this case they were the only other balls to play, but let's say for a minute they weren't: I pocket a ball, break out a cluster, shoot a couple hangers then go back to the formerly clustered balls...that was still a successful breakout shot in my opinion
edit: just read through what I didn't read before voting. Still in favor of B for all the reasons above
and....I'm not surprised he didn't want to bet more about you getting the majority of the votes LOL Sounds like he knew you won it fairly and wanted to get out of paying with a weak excuse
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You know, it depends a little bit on the game being played. If it's 9 Ball you could make more of a case that there was no break out because without a shot the shooter didn't do anything but possibly help his opponent. If it's 8 Ball then I'd certainly consider it a break out because by separating the balls he may have helped his cause for later in the game. Certainly he wouldn't be going for it if they were his opponent's balls that were clustered.
Generally speaking though, I'd say the break out was accomplished. If I don't have a shot I'm not thinking to myself I didn't break them out. I'm thinking more along the lines that I did but didn't get a shot out of it. Whether he made it or not shouldn't be dependent on having a shot. There is always the risk you won't so a break out doesn't have to be "successful" in that regard.
Generally speaking though, I'd say the break out was accomplished. If I don't have a shot I'm not thinking to myself I didn't break them out. I'm thinking more along the lines that I did but didn't get a shot out of it. Whether he made it or not shouldn't be dependent on having a shot. There is always the risk you won't so a break out doesn't have to be "successful" in that regard.
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So if the cue ball has just barely enough oomph to roll up to the balls and just barely move one of them 1/16 inch it's a break out? I doubt that most would accept that as a break out but I'm OK with that as the definition of a break out if it had been specified when the bet was made. FAIL for both of the bettors.
In general, if bettors can't agree to the conditions of the bet, there was no bet.
Without specifics on the breakout (position, distance, etc.), easy win for Player B. Is implied that player A doesn't think they can hit the balls at all, and they obviously did.
Scott
Scott
And if that had been the bet there would have been no problem. Neither player seems to have realized that the bet as originally stated might be ambiguous so both players made a mistake. Or maybe A understood what was going on and kept the ambiguity as his backup.
In such a small hit, I may not rule it a breakout. I'd say the width of a ball may be a good definition of a "breakout" not counting actually getting a good shot at the next ball.