A Pool Room Is Opening Soon In Fresno, CA…….SIERRA BILLIARDS.

[maha]

the test of whether they make enough for the owner to stay in business, is how much the fun players spend in the room and how often they come in. and that depends on how well the owner can monetize his customers.

the good players do add, but not enough money for a room to make it on pool table revenue.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Do they have any tournaments?

Wednesday nights 9 ball and eventually weekends after the NFL season ends. They also have APA leagues competing on the 7’ Diamond tables several nights a week. The pool hall is maintained in immaculate condition. Cleanliness is of
paramount priority for the premises, bathrooms and pool table and balls. All the pool balls get polished daily using
Aramith products and a 16 ball Diamond Pool Ball Polisher. The tables are brushed, vacuumed & the rails are cleaned.
The staff is incredibly friendly, the owners want the pool hall to remain looking pristine and so far, they get a A+ score.

 

[Bavafongoul]

the test of whether they make enough for the owner to stay in business, is how much the fun players spend in the room and how often they come in. and that depends on how well the owner can monetize his customers.

the good players do add, but not enough money for a room to make it on pool table revenue.

The bar is doing a steady business even with the regulars during the daytime and at night, the place is packed with younger patrons. It opens at 2pm Mon thru Friday, 1pm on Sat., and 10am on Sun. So far it is off to a great start and the best pool tables in the Central Valley. Four of the 9’ tables have 4.5” CP and 5” SP; the remaining four 9’ tables have 4.25” CP and 4.75” SP; the smaller pockets unsurprisingly play tougher which makes it all the more enjoyable for serious minded players.

 

[jay helfert]

You build it, they will come! Nice clean looking room. Good layout with lots of space all around. They invested some money building this place. Hope they have a long, strong lease or are buying the property. I've always said you can make it in the poolroom biz if you know what you're doing! There are many large, successful rooms going strong back East. Check out Mike Zuglan's Joss Tour sometime. He holds his tournaments in big rooms throughout the Northeast. Smart move charging by the table and not by how many people. Charging a monthly fee for the regulars is also a smart move. That way you have people in there during the slow daytime hours. It doesn't look dead in there when someone looks in. I always gave single players a break during the daytime as well, maybe only charging $6/hour.

I wanted to keep my tables going as much of the time as possible (We opened daily at Noon and had after hours on Friday and Saturday nights. No bar but stayed open for pool etc. until 4-5 AM!). Don't believe it when people tell you that you can't make money on pool. Sixteen tables bringing in $10/hour (average between day and night rates) for eight hours a day is $1,280! That would be an average for a seven day week counting daytime hours at reduced rates, nearly 40K a month total possible on pool alone with only sixteen tables. I think they might end up wanting more 9' tables if the business warrants it (waiting list at night). Your busy hours are from 7 or 8 PM until closing at 2 AM. You do the biggest part of your business on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

I would definitely add some video games somewhere, even in the bar counter if possible. If your second source of revenue (food and drinks plus others) is as great or greater than your pool revenue you will do just fine. I see they have an ATM machine, very smart to have your own (that machine will bring in several hundred a month). A juke box is a money maker as well! You chose the music you want on there and also set the volume at the level you like. I always liked variety like darts and foosball. It's all about maximizing your space. A room that size (looks like 7-8,000 square feet) could bring in One Mil a year in gross revenue, with a 30-40% net! Not a bad living in a place like Fresno.

My last room at Hollywood Park was about the same size, 7,000 square feet with eighteen pool tables (only two 7'), beer and wine only, a snack bar with mostly finger food (pizza, burgers etc.), a dozen video games, one foosball and one ping pong table, ATM, Juke Box and seventeen large screen TV's. I had a great lease from Hollywood Park with all utilities paid, and greatly reduced rent depending on bar sales (Hollywood Park was my 50-50 partner on the bar). I was netting out 200-250K per year, sole owner. Not a fortune by any means but it allowed me to invest in real estate and now that rental income is my pension. The side money from playing poker downstairs was a $$$ Bonus! As Efren used to say, "I got lucky!"

One last thing If they are successful in getting a liquor license that would be a huge windfall for them. But with liquor there is greatly increased responsibility and more opportunity for internal theft. You must keep a close watch on that aspect of your business!

 

[maha]

beer, food, machines add to your profits strongly. and needed nowadays.
the also help bring in new players or especially keep present players staying longer. and spending more than just table time.

and as big companies in the business world know keeping a customer is of utmost important as acquiring new ones is much tougher and more expensive.

and no matter what you do or how nice it is. if it isnt fun to hang out there then the business will fail.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Here’s the best part as far as I’m concerned. 4 of the 8 tables have 4 1/2” corner pockets and the remaining four 9’ tables have 4-1/4” pockets.

Not sure about their decision to have 4-1/4” pockets on half of their 9’ tables. As a 27 year poolroom owner / manager / TD of all our tournaments, that will significantly slow down the timely completion of all tournaments.

 

[garczar]

Not sure about their decision to have 4-1/4” pockets on half of their 9’ tables. As a 27 year poolroom owner / manager / TD of all our tournaments, that will significantly slow down the timely completion of all tournaments.

Having 1/2 of your big tables that snug is usually not a great idea. I know because i play in a place much the same. 4.5" is too tight for most average recreational players.

 

[Bavafongoul]

They got their liquor license and are selling hard alcohol and lots of beer……bucket sales on APA league nights
required buying more 5 gal. Aluminum pails than they expected. The tables already play tough with 4.5” CP and
the cloth is glued on the one piece slate so it is tight and fast. They do a very commendable job maintaining the
tables. Several of us talked with the owners before the room opened while it was still under construction. What
we were told them is one ten ft. table w/4.5” CP and one billiard table is needed. It totally screwed up the space
plan so we asked to make the two 9’ tables nearest the front counter with tighter pockets for the better players.

Somehow it was decided to make it a 50/50 split while the tables were being setup just in case the tighter pockets
were popular. And as it turns out, those four tables are always busy with most better skilled players preferring them.
I think it screws things up for a tournament field but since I mainly play on those tables, it doesn’t bother me at all.
The 4.5” CP Diamond tables are still challenging but seem a little easier after playing on the 4 tighter pocket tables.
Regardless, a poorly struck object ball still doesn’t go in on either version table but there are a lot less sloppy shots.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Not sure about their decision to have 4-1/4” pockets on half of their 9’ tables. As a 27 year poolroom owner / manager / TD of all our tournaments, that will significantly slow down the timely completion of all tournaments.

You make an excellent point and since there are only eight (8) 9’ tables, a field of 32 is the largest practical tournament field with a double elimination format. Single elimination tournaments with shorter races can be accommodated but the gist is eight pool tables limits the size of the tournament. But nowadays a pool room has to have 7’ tables if they want to enjoy the revenue from leagues like APA, BCA, etc. I think they were smart to divide the room and keep it spacious for pool play.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Does the room allow under 21?

A 64-player tournament with races to 6 fits into a weekend tournament if the TD keeps all the tables busy.

 

[ChrisinNC]

They got their liquor license and are selling hard alcohol and lots of beer……bucket sales on APA league nights
required buying more 5 gal. Aluminum pails than they expected. The tables already play tough with 4.5” CP and
the cloth is glued on the one piece slate so it is tight and fast. They do a very commendable job maintaining the
tables. Several of us talked with the owners before the room opened while it was still under construction. What
we were told them is one ten ft. table w/4.5” CP and one billiard table is needed. It totally screwed up the space
plan so we asked to make the two 9’ tables nearest the front counter with tighter pockets for the better players.

Somehow it was decided to make it a 50/50 split while the tables were being setup just in case the tighter pockets
were popular. And as it turns out, those four tables are always busy with most better skilled players preferring them.
I think it screws things up for a tournament field but since I mainly play on those tables, it doesn’t bother me at all.
The 4.5” CP Diamond tables are still challenging but seem a little easier after playing on the 4 tighter pocket tables.
Regardless, a poorly struck object ball still doesn’t go in on either version table but there are a lot less sloppy shots.

Wait a couple months and get back to me on how tight those 4-1/4” tables are playing then!

 

[Dead Money]

It looks like a really nice room. If it were closer I would check it out. I hope they do well long term.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Wait a couple months and get back to me on how tight those 4-1/4” tables are playing then!

I don’t have to wait….I play there every week since mid-May……4-5x a week.
The pockets haven’t gotten any bigger or smaller & the balls still measure 2 1/4”.

I think the pockets seem ideal but I’d still like to have one table even tighter. It’s
why I am such a big fan of 10’ tables where the game is absolutely the toughest.

 

[Dead Money]

I've played on a table that tight before....I can attest on THAT table the rails worked great...

 

[Bavafongoul]

Bob,

Last year, you asked about tournaments. The influx of pool leagues, mainly APA & BCA, pretty much dominates the 7’ tables weekday nights except for Fri. Sat. & Sun. The 9’ tables currently have Wed. nite tournaments but I’d like to see
the game changed to 10 ball, or back pocket 9 ball. I’m a big proponent of minimizing the slop that happens with 9 ball.

Using 10 ball or 9 ball back pocket will likely extend the match time a wee bit but it better distinguishes a player’s skills.
As you’ll recall, 1/2 of the 9’ tables are 4.5” CP & the others are 4.25”. As the player field narrows, to be fair to all of the
competitors, the last four 9’ tables used in the tournament are the 4.5” CP, not the tighter 4.25” tables which seems fair.

Matt

 

[BasementDweller]

Bob,

Last year, you asked about tournaments. The influx of pool leagues, mainly APA & BCA, pretty much dominates the 7’ tables weekday nights except for Fri. Sat. & Sun. The 9’ tables currently have Wed. nite tournaments but I’d like to see
the game changed to 10 ball, or back pocket 9 ball. I’m a big proponent of minimizing the slop that happens with 9 ball.

Using 10 ball or 9 ball back pocket will likely extend the match time a wee bit but it better distinguishes a player’s skills.
As you’ll recall, 1/2 of the 9’ tables are 4.5” CP & the others are 4.25”. As the player field narrows, to be fair to all of the
competitors, the last four 9’ tables used in the tournament are the 4.5” CP, not the tighter 4.25” tables which seems fair.

Matt

Back pocket 9 Ball???

You think players would show up for that?

You'd have to play yourself off-handed to get 2 players in that tourney.

 

[skip100]

"As the player field narrows, to be fair to all of the competitors, the last four 9’ tables used in the tournament are the 4.5” CP, not the tighter 4.25” tables which seems fair."

Why bother having 4.25 inch pockets if they won't even use them for the last few rounds of a tournament? Wow. Just goes to show how misguided this small-pocket trend is.

 

[maha]

small pockets hurt bottom line in a pool room. especially if its the only room close by.
if you have another players room close by, you may need one or a few tight pockets to attract those players.

but most of them are not spenders and provide little in the way of income. certainly less than if a casual player was using that space on a loose pocket table and eating and drinking.

 

[Bavafongoul]

"As the player field narrows, to be fair to all of the competitors, the last four 9’ tables used in the tournament are the 4.5” CP, not the tighter 4.25” tables which seems fair."

Why bother having 4.25 inch pockets if they won't even use them for the last few rounds of a tournament? Wow. Just goes to show how misguided this small-pocket trend is.

Not really…….the regular players enjoy practicing, competing and gambling on the tougher tables. It sharpens their skills and makes playing on any tables with bigger pockets easier. I’d practice with 4” pockets if I could. In fact, I still use occasionally Pro Pocket Reducers on the 4.25” CP tables to practice with. When I practice, I concentrate on precision & repeatability. I’ll practice my stroke on a spot shot and then close my eyes when I shoot and listen for the sound of the OB dropping.

Sometimes I am disappointed to open my eyes and don’t see the cue ball on the table……Oops……Oh well, gotta go fetch the cue ball out of one of the CPs. The Golden Fleece of pool is to have a pool stroke so straight and steady it seldom deviates from the intended path striking and extending beyond the cue ball. All the guys I play with prefer the toughest tables and admittedly, Diamond pool tables aren’t known for playing EZ.

The reasoning behind using the 4.5” CP tables as the last tables in the field serves 2 purposes. Someone that hasn’t played very much, and sometimes not at all, on the tables with smaller pockets is to not put them at a disadvantage to finish in the $ as the field narrows, which of course they logically could be. Unfortunately, it also gives competitors that prefer the 4.25” CP tables a little more edge, at least mentally, when competing on the tables with 1/4” larger pockets.

It is really fair since players that could enter the tournament might be brand new patrons to Sierra Billiards in contrast to players that regularly play there on a monthly or yearly memberships. It is obvious you are not a fan of tighter pockets &
I’m not here to try changing your opinion. The good news is if you ever were to compete in the SB tournament and got to advance in the field, i.e., compete for the payout $, you’d be playing on Diamond pool tables with the larger 4.5” CP.

The only conclusion I can come to is pool players have likes and dislikes. It comes down to one’s preferences. I can play pool and enjoy it borrowing a 19.5 oz. pool cue. However, I’d enjoy it more if the cue was an ounce lighter like my pool cues are. The same applies to tight pockets which is what I prefer. The harder the table, the more apparent a player’s skills become and 4.5” pockets are already demanding. I just like the pool tables to be very challenging.

When I run the pool table practicing 14.1, or 8/9/10 ball, with 4.25” CP, it is enormously more satisfying knowing that the table had really tight pockets but the alternative is also true. Accomplishing it on an old Brunswick with 5” CP is different.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Called 9 is the worst rule ever. Yuk. Agree to disagree.

(Or the WPA 10 ball rules).