A Pro Player opens his mouth......

Russ Chewning

Russ Chewning

Short Bus Russ - C player
Silver Member
I'm not gonna say which pro player I was talking to, but let's just say it was in Central Florida. I am talking to a well known pro at a weekly tournament, and he makes the comment that "One of the problems with pro pool is the pro players are too accessible. It's not a big deal to be around pros, because they have to play the same tournaments as the non pros to make a living. Nobody pays to go see the pros play the big tourneys, because they see the pros in their home pool halls."

I was dumbfounded. I wanted to say, "Yeah, because pro pool players as a whole are people to be looked up to? You mighta heard of a guy who went to prison in Cali because he was dealing drugs, and got caught with a bunch on him. Yeah, that's who I wanna go pay to watch. Furthermore, most are just problem gamblers who just happened to find one thing they can win at consistently once in a while."

The arrogance of this guy was amazing. Another few choice words I wanted to say were, "YOU picked your "profession", dude. When you started playing in what, the early 80's, did you somehow fool yourself into thinking you were gonna make a bunch of money at the game? When the biggest payouts were in the 10K range for winning a tournament? How many times did you hear stories of old time players winning tons of cash, then being broke a few weeks later? New York Fats and Mosconi were probably the only two people in recent history who had a comfortable life off of pool. One for his skill and notoriety, and the other because of his gift of gab. Now get out of my face and go run some racks for my entertainment. DANCE, monkey, DANCE!"

But, I didn't. I just nodded, meanwhile cringing inside. I don't know about all of you, but to me pool, no matter how good I get at it, will always be a hobby. I am not a problem gambler, and will never be betting the rent money on a pool game.

I have come more and more to dislike most of the really good players I've met, because generally, they are unpleasant people, and have been involved in many unpleasant things in their lives.

Help me out here, people, lemme hear about some pros who are not scumbags. Gambling is fine, just as long as they are generally good people, and don't let the action control their lives.

(Maybe the fact that I am in Iraq again because my wife gambled away the IRS money from my last trip has something to do with my attitude on problem gamblers. I use to think the idea of a gunslinger out there always lookng for action was romantic. I no longer do so.)
 
tell em how ya feel

why didn't you tell him or her how ya felt?might have knocked some sense into em.most of the pros i have run into seem ok.talk to them about the same stuff i would anyone else.sounds like maybe a pro player talking that was broke,what are the odds of that.another champion,another broke champion.lol.
 
Russ Chewning said:
Help me out here, people, lemme hear about some pros who are not scumbags. Gambling is fine, just as long as they are generally good people, and don't let the action control their lives.
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Real quick, off the top of my head, Tony Robles and Mike Zuglan jump to the surface. I'm sure there are countless others but there are times I feel the same as you. I like quite a few of them as human beings but there are some...well, let's just say at least they can play pool really well.
 
buck15 said:
why didn't you tell him or her how ya felt?might have knocked some sense into em.most of the pros i have run into seem ok.talk to them about the same stuff i would anyone else.sounds like maybe a pro player talking that was broke,what are the odds of that.another champion,another broke champion.lol.
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One reason I refrained is that the player is basically being sponsored by the owner of the pool hall we were playing in. And the tourney we were at is the toughest weeknight tourney probably in the whole state of Florida. I'm not risking getting 86'ed from the establishment for ****ing the guy off.

Russ C
 
Koop said:
Real quick, off the top of my head, Tony Robles and Mike Zuglan jump to the surface. I'm sure there are countless others but there are times I feel the same as you. I like quite a few of them as human beings but there are some...well, let's just say at least they can play pool really well.
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Say it again, brudda.

Yeah, I have heard that about Tony. Raising a kid as a single father, isn't he? That's gotta be double tough. Nick Varner, from what I have heard on Accu-Stats, seems like my kinda pro, too. College educated (meaning he doesn't HAVE to play pool for a living, he just does), and didn't so much try to hustle people into playing, as he "walked into a pool hall, and PRAYED someone would play", as he put it.

I came up in the game mostly in the Seattle/Tacoma area, and some of the good players were of the unpleasant type, but I will say one thing for them.. They played HARD. I always knew I had my hands full when I played one of them. There is a certain player in the Central Florida area that I make it a point to watch in the tournaments here. I'll know he is easily the best player in the tournament, but he somehow seems to get put out after winning only 2 or 3 matches. He's just fishing for a lockup game, and if there was any player I'd love to trap after practicing on the downlow for a year or so, it would be him.

Russ C
 
well, as usual, the pro player has his complaints @ss backwards. he was addressing a symptom, and not a root cause.
 
Some pro pool players definately have their faults, but look at every other proffesional sport there is, and tell me in which sport are all the people perfect. Do you look up to Mike Tyson, Ron artest, or Jamal lewis? I'm sure i can name more if you like. Think of every sport you can, and you can think of good people, and bad. To say pro pool player's are not to be looked up to is IMHO ignorant.
 
the pro players seem more approachable when they are in the same billiard hall as you. They do not seem as approachable when they are in an arena and spotlights are on them and then they just walk out of the tourney. Its the hype that would keep me away from just striking a conversation up with them.
 
Not to sound too "out there" but I feel that todays celebrities are put up too high on a pedestal to begin with.

People mobbing the streets because some famous movie star or musician is nearby?

Remember, everyone is unique, just like you.
 
Rodney said:
Some pro pool players definately have their faults, but look at every other proffesional sport there is, and tell me in which sport are all the people perfect. Do you look up to Mike Tyson, Ron artest, or Jamal lewis? I'm sure i can name more if you like. Think of every sport you can, and you can think of good people, and bad. To say pro pool player's are not to be looked up to is IMHO ignorant.
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Funny you should say that! I personally believe that it is a horrible travesty that we even pay people for playing sports. It's not really their fault, though. It's society's fault for putting more emphasis on popular culture than on science and eduation. I don't watch sports on television at all, so your reasoning is not going to work with me.

It is the most terrible thing a parent can do to their child, encouraging them to practice hour after on (insert game here) for the mere "possibility" of becoming a millionaire someday. I guarantee I can take any child that is not mentally disabled, and I'll make them a millionaire if they listen to me:

1. Stay in school and get good grades
2. Go to college and get a degree in something everyone needs (i.e. Engineering)
3. Save 10% of everything you make over the next 25 years

Wa LA! The sure path to being a millionaire!

Going back to your original statement. No, I don't look up to Mike Tyson. Neither do I look up to Mohummad Ali.

They both punch people in the face for a living. There are criminals that do the same thing. 'Nuff said?

Ron Artest? No. In fact, I believe he should have been banned permanently from the game. The only reason he wasn't was the League with dollar signs in their eyes. Do I look up to Michael Jordan? Nope. He was just a guy who tossed a ball through a hoop. He did it better than a lot of other guys, but he was still tossing a ball through a hoop.

Jamal Lewis? I assume he is a foot ball player who did something wrong... Nope. Joe Namath? I don't look up to him either. Similar to other achievements stated above, he tossed a ball to other guys better than most. Wow. I sometimes toss a ball back and forth with my son in the back yard.

You wanna know who is a pimp? Jonas Salk. You mighta heard of him. Probably not, though. He was the dude that invented the polio vaccine. His work affected more people than Michael Jordan could ever hope to.

Johann Gutenberg? Another pimp. You mighta heard of him, too. I doubt it, though. He invented the printing press. He die broke and unknown for his influence. All these sports figures you talk about? Rich, but useless in the great panorama that is human existence. It shows you how jacked up our priorities are.

I say again. Pool is a hobby, not a profession. If you are a "pro pool player" who is doing this because they have a love of the game, then let that love sustain you, as the love of science and thirst for achievement drove scientists over the centuries. At least their suffering was of some value to someone.

Damn, I AM opinionated today, aren't I?

Russ C.
 
I think you're attaching an old stigma unfairly. The pro players today are of a better class than those of days gone by. I remember a time when finding a pro player that wasn't doped up on something was like finding a needle in a haystack. Nowadays it seems to be the opposite. There are a ton of pro players out there on the up & up... no drugs, no alcohol. There are some that aren't on the up & up. This really holds true with any profession whether it's sports or the working class folks like ourselves. I can think of many pro's that are of better character than many other pro sports figures and certainly of a better character than some of my past & present co-workers.

These guys & gals have been given a talent that most do not posses. I don't think it's fair to condem them for trying to make a living out of that talent. People that sing well do so in hopes of getting a contract and making a good living as opposed to playing small bars on the weekends. Good golfers play in qualifiers in hopes of making the cut and supporting themselves and so on and so forth.

Most people seek out jobs that they perform well and can excel at. When you really think about it, most of our professions pick us, not the other way around. I think it's human nature to pick the profession that best suits ones capabilities and any of us that can do something better than most people will go for that profession in hopes of being the best at it and supporting themselves.

Over the last 10 yrs or so I've noticed a trend in pool.... people are steering away from the gambling and giving tournament play their all. It used to be that after a pro tourney was done for the night most of the players would head to the local pool room to gamble. That rarely happens now. They go back to their rooms to get a good nights sleep or they go out to dinner & a movie with their significant others or other players. Most of the guys are projecting a clean image and truly trying to be good tournament players and hoping to land sponsorships to help them support themselves and compete in tournaments.

Look at all the positive things people like Corey Harper, Tony Crosby, Melissa Herndon, Jennifer Baretta, Sarah Rousey, and all the other pro's that participate on this forum have done for all of us here. Tony gives live updates from his cell phone when he can, while he's still in the tournament...just one example out of many that he and other players do to contribute positively. There are other players on here and I'm not excluding them on purpose, I just don't want to try to name everyone because I'll leave someone out and hurt someone's feelings. All of the players that post on here are contributing in a positive manner. I know some of them and I can tell you that they're the same in person. They're genuine nice, helpful, clean cut, honest people.

There are some players that have faltered in the past and have done things that they're not proud of today. People can change and turn their lives around for the better. Mike Massey is one that comes to mind. He's certainly a different person with a better moral character today than he was back a few yrs ago.

If someone has paid their debt to society for something illegal or that has simply bettered themselves because maybe they were a little unsavory at one point, don't you think it's fair to give them a chance? Some people go to jail, some go through rehab, others find religion... some folks truly do change for the better sometimes. I think it's only fair to give them a chance to try and succeed.

When you think about it, the player you mentioned has a very valid point. Race car drivers, golf/football/baseball/basketball/tennis/etc players are not accesible to the public. If you want to see them you've got to pay or watch it on tv. Famous singers and comedienes have performed in the same bars & clubs as any amateur in order to support themselves and in hopes of making it big. Pro pool is quite similar. The players have to play alongside the average Joe in order to support himself until pool can get the recognition it derserves for being such a skilled game and the pro players are paid enough to support themselves.

I've seen that players comment mentioned on here by some people. While there are quite a few of us that do spend money to go watch pro events, there are also folks (that have said on here) that will not pay to go to an event because they can see them in their local pool room. If you could watch pro baseball or football at the local county owned park, would you be willing to drive & spend the money to go to a pro event in a large city?

Just some things to ponder. There really are some very nice, honest, clean cut, non gambling pool players out there and contrary to everyone's belief, not all players have a gambling problem. There are plenty that bet and bet smart... you only ever hear about the ones that don't bet smart and lost everything they have because those are the stories that people find interesting. ;)
 
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I Just Came Back From Turning Stone And I Can Say That I Did Not Meet One Pro Player That Came Off As A Butthole. Seemed To Me They Went Out Of There Way To Talk To You. I Can See There Point Of View When Someone Wants An Autograph At The Wrong Time, Flashing Them With Camara While They Are Playing Etc. My $.02. I'd Like To Thank Them For The Great Time I Had. Mike Zuglan Was Most Helpful And Put On One Hell Of A Tournament In A Great Arena.
 
Russ Chewning said:
Funny you should say that! I personally believe that it is a horrible travesty that we even pay people for playing sports. It's not really their fault, though. It's society's fault for putting more emphasis on popular culture than on science and eduation. I don't watch sports on television at all, so your reasoning is not going to work with me.

It is the most terrible thing a parent can do to their child, encouraging them to practice hour after on (insert game here) for the mere "possibility" of becoming a millionaire someday. I guarantee I can take any child that is not mentally disabled, and I'll make them a millionaire if they listen to me:

1. Stay in school and get good grades
2. Go to college and get a degree in something everyone needs (i.e. Engineering)
3. Save 10% of everything you make over the next 25 years

Wa LA! The sure path to being a millionaire!

Going back to your original statement. No, I don't look up to Mike Tyson. Neither do I look up to Mohummad Ali.

They both punch people in the face for a living. There are criminals that do the same thing. 'Nuff said?

Ron Artest? No. In fact, I believe he should have been banned permanently from the game. The only reason he wasn't was the League with dollar signs in their eyes. Do I look up to Michael Jordan? Nope. He was just a guy who tossed a ball through a hoop. He did it better than a lot of other guys, but he was still tossing a ball through a hoop.

Jamal Lewis? I assume he is a foot ball player who did something wrong... Nope. Joe Namath? I don't look up to him either. Similar to other achievements stated above, he tossed a ball to other guys better than most. Wow. I sometimes toss a ball back and forth with my son in the back yard.

You wanna know who is a pimp? Jonas Salk. You mighta heard of him. Probably not, though. He was the dude that invented the polio vaccine. His work affected more people than Michael Jordan could ever hope to.

Johann Gutenberg? Another pimp. You mighta heard of him, too. I doubt it, though. He invented the printing press. He die broke and unknown for his influence. All these sports figures you talk about? Rich, but useless in the great panorama that is human existence. It shows you how jacked up our priorities are.

I say again. Pool is a hobby, not a profession. If you are a "pro pool player" who is doing this because they have a love of the game, then let that love sustain you, as the love of science and thirst for achievement drove scientists over the centuries. At least their suffering was of some value to someone.

Damn, I AM opinionated today, aren't I?

Russ C.
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I agree with most of what you said.

I don't think it's a travesty that people are paid to play sports, but the amount some are paid may be.

I also believe that pool is a profession, but only for some. Some make it on the tournament trail, some at gambling(not recomended), and some at instruction, and some of the above. I will however say that making a living playing pool is very difficult, and if all the people that support this sport thought that...

"Yeah, because pro pool players as a whole are people to be looked up to? You mighta heard of a guy who went to prison in Cali because he was dealing drugs, and got caught with a bunch on him. Yeah, that's who I wanna go pay to watch. Furthermore, most are just problem gamblers who just happened to find one thing they can win at consistently once in a while."

....then it would definately be impossible.

Certainly if all pro players were this way, then there would be no tournaments with significant prize money.
Rodney
 
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Russ Chewning said:
Funny you should say that! I personally believe that it is a horrible travesty that we even pay people for playing sports.

I say again. Pool is a hobby, not a profession. If you are a "pro pool player" who is doing this because they have a love of the game, then let that love sustain you, as the love of science and thirst for achievement drove scientists over the centuries. At least their suffering was of some value to someone.

Damn, I AM opinionated today, aren't I?

Russ C.
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Basically what you're saying is that regardless of what anyone says in defense of pool players (which is what you asked for), nothing is going to change your mind. :rolleyes: Why not just state your opinion instead of asking people to defend?

Since pool and all sports are only to be considered a hobby, what do you think about people that play instruments and sing and paint and act? They're providing entertainment (like sports does) and the artists and musicians are providing us with beauty in many different forms. If we lived in your world, everyone would be scientists, not waste any time on hobbies and the world would actually be pretty boring and drab.

I personally think it's ridiculous to make sports figures millionaires but I see no reason in them not being able to make a living at it. There's nothing wrong with getting paid for being good at something that people find entertaining, helpful, or whatever else people want to spend their money on. Making people millionaires for playing a game is excessive IMO but I still have no problem with them making enough money to support themselves and a family.
 
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I also think we put professional athletes and other celebrities on a pedestal and for what? Because they have some talent? Why should pro athletes be looked up to? They should be respected just for their talent but not as a human being.

I saw 60 Minutes the other night and the did a peice on Michael Jordan. He was doing a basketball clinic for middle-aged men. They paid $15,000 for the honor! These guys were asking Jordan about how he handled the loss of his dad. Why? Is he an expert on that? I don't think so. You might want to ask a professional that deals with death and dying but why ask a former basketball player? Ask him how to dribble the ball or something.

There are good people in pool and there are bad people in pool. Pool is comprised of a cross section of society as is every other human endeavor. Give someone respect for their abilities but only for their abilities. If they happen to be a good person too, that has nothing to do with their talent.

JMHO. I just get uptight when people act like the pros are untouchable because they have great talent. If someone is a jerk, treat them accordingly whether they are a pro at anything or a celebrity. If a person is nice, treat them accordingly as well even if they're ugly, poor or stupid.
 
Rickw said:
JMHO. I just get uptight when people act like the pros are untouchable because they have great talent. If someone is a jerk, treat them accordingly whether they are a pro at anything or a celebrity. If a person is nice, treat them accordingly as well even if they're ugly, poor or stupid.
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I agree... being a pro at anything doesn't make someone a good person. There are pro pool players and pro sports figures that I cannot stand because they're not good people. There's also pro's that I do like and some I even admire. When someone appreciates the status they've been given for being a celebrity and they give back to the community... I admire those folks for not forgetting where they came from and for giving back to the people that are less fortunate.
 
Please know that not all pros think that way. Everyone started in the same place and it is horrible that some people forget that.

Sarah
 
sarahrousey said:
Please know that not all pros think that way. Everyone started in the same place and it is horrible that some people forget that.

Sarah
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So true, Sarah. Thank you for sharing that :)

Flex
 
Timberly said:
I agree... being a pro at anything doesn't make someone a good person. There are pro pool players and pro sports figures that I cannot stand because they're not good people. There's also pro's that I do like and some I even admire. When someone appreciates the status they've been given for being a celebrity and they give back to the community... I admire those folks for not forgetting where they came from and for giving back to the people that are less fortunate.
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To this post and some of the others, I apologize if I came across one sided. I haven't gotten the time to spend with some of the pros that you all have. I am going to try to go to DCC or the U.S. Open perhaps when I finish up in Iraq. I just honestly have never met a pool pro that I would want to be friends with.

There is the aforementioned pro, and there is another guy who might be considered a pro (has been on a few Accu-Stats matches), and a few guys back in Washington state. The other guy in Florida, the one on a few Accu-Stats videos, well, let's just say I had access to to some law enforcement web sites in my last job, and found out something that I wished I hadn't known. And it seemed to jibe so well with my overall impression of him as a person.

Now that I think about it, there is at least one guy back in Washington that made a very favorable impression on me, and that was John Horsfall, from Canada. I would almost say he doesn't count, though, as he comes from a snooker background, and at one time was trying to play professional snooker in England. He was a really nice guy, who had a workmanlike attitude towards the game.

Dan Louie, as well! He was always very professional, had his own business, and it was almost like pool was his hobby.

Sighhhh.. I need to move back to Washington state. I think I may just be bummed that my game deteriorated so much since I got married, and I might associate negative energy with everything pool. I gotta stop that.

Russ C.
 
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