A Pro Player opens his mouth......

[corvette1340]

this is funny

I have a lot of problems with this thread.

1st - you have a private conversation a person and you are unhappy with what he said. Instead of saying anything to this person's face you turn around and come on a forum and blast what the guy says when he is probably not going to be able to defend his comments. Sorry, but to me that is nutless. If you had a set you would have said what was on your mind at the time, but you didn't, did you? That says a lot about you.

2nd - I take offense to comment quoted above. There are many educated professional pool players that play the game and hold down full time jobs in the process. For years players have had to juggle two and 3 careers while the industry and the fans stand their looking at each like they are trying to decide who should pay for lunch. Welfare mentality? I call it survival. The pros will know what I am talking about. Then you try to turn this into a "what about the good guys" thread. IMO, we have you coming in this forum and bashing a pro by relaying your version of a story that may or may not be accurate. Then you had the audacity to refer to pros as scumbags and unpleasant people? Dance monkey, dance? Sorry, I have a problem with that (no matter who you're talking about), I think you are out of line, nutless, and you can bet that I'd say that right to your face if we ever crossed paths in Central Florida. How's that for pleasant?

Read this guy's initial post very carefully. This is why pros are reluctant to post in pool forums.

I find this post funny. I've repeatedly heard most of the pros complain that they aren't compensated what they are worth. Well, what exactly are they worth? Let's see, the money they generate to room owners and sponsors is almost nil. The IPT may change this, but as of now, the average person or even sports enthusiast doesn't recognize most of the top pros or care to watch pool for entertainment. I respect and admire those players that hold down full-time jobs as you say, but this percentage is very miniscule among top pros. In fact, most of the pros I personally know, and their are a ton of them, have never had a real job for more than a week. Scuffling on the tournament trail and gambling to make a living at pool is fine. The problem I have is when certain players complain that they aren't paid like other sports are. Either these players are just retarded and don't understand simple economics, or they just have a skewed view of things because they are "pros" at something. If you feel like your profession isn't paying enough or you can't survive by playing pool, then either 1) do something to try and change it or 2) changed professions. Either way, stop complaining, nobody is sympathetic for you.

 

[cheesemouse]

Russ,
Having just blown my early morning reading this whole thread I can only scratch my head and wonder at the bitter tone. I like where Blackjack is coming from on this one. If life is a gamble then you have a scumbag for a wife and to make up for her misdeads you take the biggest gamble of all and head for a war zone chasing the money...all I can do is scratch my shaking head.....hmmmmmm

 

[JamisonNeu]

One of my favorite saying and something here that could be said is.
"I am not here to live up to your expectations and you are not here to live up to mine" Seems to me most people just like to think they are right about everything and since they are right you are wrong. I just want to live until I die and play pool the whole time my millions are spent as I get them and thats how I like it. Sorry my collection isn't as big as yours but, when you die someone else is going to counting your dollars anyhow. As for college being a way out lol. There is no fountain of cash for knowing Plato's unabridged works or knowing how to spell it.
There are only four stories ever.
He was poor
He worked hard for what he had
He was rich
He was powerful
But in the end they all died the same way, DEAD.
So you live your life your way and I'll live mine my way and unless things have changed that much it is still the American way. Thanks for your well thought out tips of work hard, save money and don't take risks.
Is collecting money a hobbie cause I always liked the way it looked???
Jamison Neu

 

[fish on]

one large brush!!!

I have a lot of problems with this thread.
Most of better players are great.... You treat people with respect you will get back same. Everybody has problems if you ask them. I have met and talked to many, sure a few have issues, but most are not vanilla, and this makes life interesting. Keith M is super ., Kid D, Corey, Mika, Mike Davis, Tony , Allison, Karen c. Jen B.on&on&on&on Ect. along with lessor knowns have been great entertainment and unbeknown to them free instructors which has helped my game.
1st - you have a private conversation a person and you are unhappy with what he said. Instead of saying anything to this person's face you turn around and come on a forum and blast what the guy says when he is probably not going to be able to defend his comments. Sorry, but to me that is nutless. If you had a set you would have said what was on your mind at the time, but you didn't, did you? That says a lot about you.

 

[Snapshot9]

Points

Athletic competitions have existed much longer than 'Academic' contests or quests.

Athletic competitions involve Mind, Body, and Spirit, not just the Mind.

I believe their have been Olympic participants who have faltered, and they surely do it for the love of the sport and country, not all the money that comes after ... right?

Pool is as it is because it is the 'Nature of the Beast'. In other words, until amateur and professional organizations impose standards for players to adhere to that are of the highest quality for the sport, you will see fallout and less than stellar players on occasion. Regardless of what you think, the IPT is becoming an agent of change in Pool, elevating players to more of a true professional status. My hopes are that a downword infrastructure in put into place in Pool that also elevates the sport and its players. (I still advocate for the development of standards and acoompanying benefits for the Semi-Pro level).

Many people are not 'interested' in what is considered the 'Cultural' things of society. Going to an Opera would be pure torture for me. You can not understand the words, and to tell the 'story' in plainer words would be much more pleasant than all the abstract bullshit. 80% of the Artwork I see is nothing more than a Con job.

Russ, I got the impression something else is shading your negative viewpoints today, and that maybe tomorrow you might reflect it in a more positive light.

 

[JAM]

Right on-This guy is WAY out of line. There was nothing wrong with the pro's comments at all. I hope the pro reads this thread and it should be real easy for him to figure out just who thinks he is a dancing monkey. Unreal.

It ain't too hard to figure out which pro is being referenced.

There are many schools of thought as it pertains to pool players being compensated for their skills set. Some feel they don't deserve a penny, having chosen a lifestyle of a rolling stone gathering no moss, and then there are others who appreciate their god-given talent on a field of green.

Some pro players are bitter at the way pool as a sport has developed, but there's a new breed of players who are looking to capitalize on the current state of affairs, which is a rise in tournament payouts since the IPT came to the fore.

One Hall of Famer I know thinks that the sport has turned its back on players due to a misconception that pool is only a game. To this Hall of Famer, pool is a sport.

Me personally, I'd rather SEE a dancing monkey all day long than LISTEN to a sucker-punching monkey any day of the week.

JAM

 

[jjinfla]

I'm not gonna say which pro player I was talking to, but let's just say it was in Central Florida. I am talking to a well known pro at a weekly tournament, and he makes the comment that "One of the problems with pro pool is the pro players are too accessible. It's not a big deal to be around pros, because they have to play the same tournaments as the non pros to make a living. Nobody pays to go see the pros play the big tourneys, because they see the pros in their home pool halls."

I suspect that you just misunderstood his comment.

He is looking at his profession from a business standpoint and he is correct.
He actually is looking to the future. The future where his successors will prosper from the work the pros are doing now.

The pros offer a product for sale. That product is their ability to play pool. Pure entertainment for someone to enjoy. Unfortunately, if people can get that product for free why would anyone pay for it? I have been saying this since 1999 when I first started watching the pros and was totally amazed that I could sit and watch them play and talk with the best of the best for free. I didn't even have to spend a dime at the pool hall.

Keep in mind that many "stars" are kept sheltered out of necessity for their own safety.

Look at any other successful sport or form of entertainment and you will find that you only see them perform when they get paid to do so. Or they are doing some PR work. They give nothing away for free.

People will pay the big bucks to be entertained.

Over the years watching and talking with the pros I really have never run into one that came across bad.

In my opinion the bums in the pool room are the shortstops and top players who can't play at the pro level and put the pros down. They are the ones who will out and out rob some sucker. Nothing but con men.

Jake

 

[gromulan]

I'm not gonna say which pro player I was talking to, but let's just say it was in Central Florida.

First of all, this whole thread is lame if you won't name names. Then he or she could at least come on here and give their side of things.

Funny you should say that! I personally believe that it is a horrible travesty that we even pay people for playing sports. It's not really their fault, though. It's society's fault for putting more emphasis on popular culture than on science and eduation. I don't watch sports on television at all, so your reasoning is not going to work with me.

Travesty or not, professionals get paid to play their sport, simple as that. The reason they get paid isn't a 'fault' of society, it's simply the way things are in a market society. People enjoy watching sports, and they will pay to do so, simple as that. As long as those people are paying that money, I personally am happy as hell that a huge percentage of it goes to the players.

It is the most terrible thing a parent can do to their child, encouraging them to practice hour after on (insert game here) for the mere "possibility" of becoming a millionaire someday. I guarantee I can take any child that is not mentally disabled, and I'll make them a millionaire if they listen to me:

1. Stay in school and get good grades
2. Go to college and get a degree in something everyone needs (i.e. Engineering)
3. Save 10% of everything you make over the next 25 years

Wa LA! The sure path to being a millionaire!

Sports is about a lot more than making money. I personally feel like I learned a lot more about life from sports than I ever could have strictly through academics. Things like courage, class, sportsmanship and the importance of work ethic made me a better person, and a better student, actually.

Besides, kids love playing all sports and, for many of them, sports scholarships give them academic opportunities that they might not otherwise have had. To confine any child to a life involving strictly academics can, in my opinion, severly limit their growth as a person. Kids should be supported in the pursuit of any activity in which they show interest, if for no other reason than it keeps them from getting involved in things like drugs and petty crime. I don't have children, but if I did, I'd be a lot happier knowing that they spent 12 hours in a poolroom, basketball court, or driving range than out roaming the streets looking for trouble.

Going back to your original statement. No, I don't look up to Mike Tyson. Neither do I look up to Mohummad Ali. They both punch people in the face for a living. There are criminals that do the same thing. 'Nuff said?

Do I look up to Michael Jordan? Nope. He was just a guy who tossed a ball through a hoop. He did it better than a lot of other guys, but he was still tossing a ball through a hoop.

Jamal Lewis? I assume he is a foot ball player who did something wrong... Nope. Joe Namath? I don't look up to him either. Similar to other achievements stated above, he tossed a ball to other guys better than most. Wow. I sometimes toss a ball back and forth with my son in the back yard.

Everything is relative. I admire Ali a lot, he stood up for his beliefs and his rights when facing the draft board, and it cost him everything he had. Do you remember how he said, "No Viet Cong ever called me 'nigger!'" Would you have had that kind of courage?

With respect to guys like Lewis and Tyson, they have done some questionable things, and for that you're free to hate them. Yet even though they both had some spectacular screwups, I still can't help but admire the drive and the work they put in to get to the top in the first place. Do you think it's easy to become heavyweight champion of the world, or to be a starter on a pro football team? Those might be two of the hardest possible human achievements in the world. I'll bet you those two guys could talk for hours about the effort, focus and sacrifice they had to make to get there. Without that, you never would have heard of them in the first place. The lesson they provide is a telling one, as a matter of fact, and it's a good one for kids. Whatever your goal may be, if you focus on it and work your butt off, your dreams can become a reality. But even then, you need to continue to work and excel, because it's just as easy to fail then as it was along the way.

You wanna know who is a pimp? Jonas Salk. You mighta heard of him. Probably not, though. He was the dude that invented the polio vaccine. His work affected more people than Michael Jordan could ever hope to.

Salk cured millions of a horrible disease, no doubt. Athletes, however, effect people, especially kids, in different ways. They provide them with inspiration and, more importantly, with hope.

I think that back in the 40's and 50's, those thousands of kids who were affected by polio and other diseases got their hope each day because of guys like Babe Ruth, Willie Mayes, Ted Williams, and Mickey Mantle. Salk may have cured them, but it was those other guys who gave them a reason to fight and hope each day before he came along. For a lot of them, that was more important than the cure.

 

[ironman]

I'm not gonna say which pro player I was talking to, but let's just say it was in Central Florida. I am talking to a well known pro at a weekly tournament, and he makes the comment that "One of the problems with pro pool is the pro players are too accessible. It's not a big deal to be around pros, because they have to play the same tournaments as the non pros to make a living. Nobody pays to go see the pros play the big tourneys, because they see the pros in their home pool halls."

I was dumbfounded. I wanted to say, "Yeah, because pro pool players as a whole are people to be looked up to? You mighta heard of a guy who went to prison in Cali because he was dealing drugs, and got caught with a bunch on him. Yeah, that's who I wanna go pay to watch. Furthermore, most are just problem gamblers who just happened to find one thing they can win at consistently once in a while."

The arrogance of this guy was amazing. Another few choice words I wanted to say were, "YOU picked your "profession", dude. When you started playing in what, the early 80's, did you somehow fool yourself into thinking you were gonna make a bunch of money at the game? When the biggest payouts were in the 10K range for winning a tournament? How many times did you hear stories of old time players winning tons of cash, then being broke a few weeks later? New York Fats and Mosconi were probably the only two people in recent history who had a comfortable life off of pool. One for his skill and notoriety, and the other because of his gift of gab. Now get out of my face and go run some racks for my entertainment. DANCE, monkey, DANCE!"

But, I didn't. I just nodded, meanwhile cringing inside. I don't know about all of you, but to me pool, no matter how good I get at it, will always be a hobby. I am not a problem gambler, and will never be betting the rent money on a pool game.

I have come more and more to dislike most of the really good players I've met, because generally, they are unpleasant people, and have been involved in many unpleasant things in their lives.

Help me out here, people, lemme hear about some pros who are not scumbags. Gambling is fine, just as long as they are generally good people, and don't let the action control their lives.

(Maybe the fact that I am in Iraq again because my wife gambled away the IRS money from my last trip has something to do with my attitude on problem gamblers. I use to think the idea of a gunslinger out there always lookng for action was romantic. I no longer do so.)

Not many threads on this forum have bothered me. Some get a little heated. That to me is okay because one gathers lot of information and hears many opinions. To be honest, much is quite entertaining.
Yours on the other hand, bothered me.
You do though, have the right to express your views and opinions just like anyone else, no mateer how pathetic and shallow they are.
You do argue the pros comments very well and did prove him 100% correct and I am sure, he would thank you, if he were to pay any attention to you.
You should work on your own arguments and views though. Those you did a piss poor job of!
Be safe in Iraq though. Remember while you are over there though, "Dance Monkey Dance".

 

[cmssuits]

Buwaahahahah!

Me personally, I'd rather SEE a dancing monkey all day long than LISTEN to a sucker-punching monkey any day of the week.
JAM

....finally, something to make the worth reading....lol

 

[JoeyA]

Russ, are you serving in the military or civilian contractor in Iraq?
Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[Dhakala]

All professional sports players are reprobates. Just in baseball: everyone from Babe Ruth to Pete Rose. Ever heard of Dennis Rodman? A guy named O. J.? Check today's national headlines and I'll wager you find at least one current or former pro football player arrested for woman-beating, drugs, and/or DUI. Even world champion chessmaters are ****ing nuts!

The only thing that makes pool pros look worse than other sports pros is their lousy financial management. Let he who is without sin...

 

[Dhakala]

Russ, are you serving in the military or civilian contractor in Iraq?
Thanks,
JoeyA

He couldn't pay off his wife's gambling debts on a GI's pay, Joey. Gotta be working for Halliburton. ;-)

 

[showtime]

Passion.........people>>>>>>passion!!!!!!!

POOL IS A GAME BUILT FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE COMPETETIVE AND PASSIONATE.this only makes up for 5% of society.Russ I feel you are in 95% society.

 

[Russ Chewning]

POOL IS A GAME BUILT FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE COMPETETIVE AND PASSIONATE.this only makes up for 5% of society.Russ I feel you are in 95% society.

Hmm.. I think pool is "built" (sic) for people who like to gamble... That's why before the IPT, a lot of the pool pros were starting to play poker for a living.

And as far as me being competitive, I am quite competitive. I just happen to live a good life, as well. No felony convictions, no DUIs, etc....

Russ C.

 

[Russ Chewning]

It ain't too hard to figure out which pro is being referenced.

There are many schools of thought as it pertains to pool players being compensated for their skills set. Some feel they don't deserve a penny, having chosen a lifestyle of a rolling stone gathering no moss, and then there are others who appreciate their god-given talent on a field of green.

Some pro players are bitter at the way pool as a sport has developed, but there's a new breed of players who are looking to capitalize on the current state of affairs, which is a rise in tournament payouts since the IPT came to the fore.

One Hall of Famer I know thinks that the sport has turned its back on players due to a misconception that pool is only a game. To this Hall of Famer, pool is a sport.

Me personally, I'd rather SEE a dancing monkey all day long than LISTEN to a sucker-punching monkey any day of the week.

JAM

JAM,

Please don't be like that. I really like your posts, and as far as Keith is concerned, well, I'll just tell you.

From what I have read, Keith had it really rough growing up, and has been through some hard times on the way back to the top. One thing I will say though.. I NEVER heard of Keith dumping a backer. In fact, I have heard a lot of stories about how he plays as hard as he can, backer or no. Keith does not fall into the category I mentioned before. He does gamble, but as far as I know preety much everyone he ever played knew he could play from the get-go.

I also have never heard of Keith talking about how little the pros get paid. As far as I am concerned, Keith is a REAL pool player. He plays pool for a living, and that's it. I think that's all he ever really wanted, and it seems he is really appreciative of the chance he is getting to come back and make a name for himself. Not a lot of players in any sport/game get a second chance.

I mean, for gawd's sake! My stepdaughter is terribly BORED by pool, and watching it on T.V.. BUT she enjoys watching Keith because he is one heck of a character!

Someone said they think there are other things going on that might be the real reason I am being a butthead about this. Yeah, probably.. A lot of it is all the corruption running rampant in sports right now. Track stars coming up hot on banned substances, finding out that a substantial percentage of pro baseball players are on steroids... Basketball players getting busted with pot, then going on to play for America against other countries.

I guess all in all, I just kinda feel that nobody in today's society is held accountable for their actions. The player I was talking to just hit a real nerve, considering that he had some real bad stuff in his past. I didn't feel he had a right to complain about the state of men's pool, because he had a fairly large part in making in that way.

Russ C.

 

[Timberly]

I just happen to live a good life, as well. No felony convictions, no DUIs, etc....

Russ C.

What is your point in harping on this? Sure there are pro players that have had problems in the past and/or today with drugs, alcohol, etc... Those people are in the minority as far as the pool world is concerned. Get it, the MINORITY?

I sure am glad you're not my father, brother, or anything close to a relative of mine... you're completely perfect and one of the most unforgiving people I've ever come across. Got kids? What are you going to do if one of them gets caught smoking under the age of 18 or drinking under the age of 21?? Guess you'll have to kick them out and never speak to them again... once a deadbeat, always a deadbeat, right? No room for forgivness, right? People that break the law are degenerates and can never ever better themselves, right?

 

[Timberly]

The player I was talking to just hit a real nerve, considering that he had some real bad stuff in his past. I didn't feel he had a right to complain about the state of men's pool, because he had a fairly large part in making in that way.

Russ C.

How can one player in todays day & age have a "fairly large part" in putting mens pool in the state that it's in right now and has been in??

One post you say there's no forgivness to anyone for anything and then you back peddle and make excuses for Keith when making a post to JAM. Good lord dude, grow a backbone. You won't say anything to the player (that you think played a large role in ruining pool) that not only got into trouble but has since turned their life around (for which you'll never forgive them for turning their life around) and you won't even stand your ground (the ground you've laid out through this whole thread) when talking to Jennie about Keith.

 

[Timberly]

Russ when you're new and you don't have any or many rep points, you can still give good or bad rep, it's just that there's no points involved. When someone leaves you positive rep, there's a green icon next to it and a red icon next to negative rep. Someone new, like yourself can only leave a grey icon until they accumulate points.

With that being said, I must ask... did you agree or disagree with my post? I can't tell because there's a grey icon there and you didn't leave a message. It literally could go either way.

I'm curious, why not leave a little message saying you agree or that you disagree?

 

[vagabond]

In Defense of Monkeys

than LISTEN to a sucker-punching monkey any day of the week.

JAM

Monkeys do NOT sucker punch.They are very HONORABLE and UPFRONT.Before they hit u with a coconut they will first either taunt u with some nonverbal gestures or make noise and then hit u.
My ancestors were Monkeys