A question for veteran members

[bomber]

In your opinion, when was the last time there was a large scale, successful mens pool tour? Has there ever really been one? If so...what was different?

Maybe another way to look at it is this: When was the golden age of pool? When were players making the most money and how was it done?

 

[Blackjack]

In your opinion, when was the last time there was a large scale, successful mens pool tour? Has there ever really been one? If so...what was different?

Maybe another way to look at it is this: When was the golden age of pool? When were players making the most money and how was it done?

Aaron,

None of them have been successful continuously, however they have had periods of prolonged, albeit limited success. I enjoyed the professional tour when Pat Fleming was at the helm . It wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination - there were still problems, but Pat did a great job. I mark the beginning of the end when Don Mackey arrived. Allen Hopkins eventually quit as PBT President and it has never been the same. I wish that between the current people that lead our sport, that we can find a way to listen to both Pat Fleming, Allen Hopkins, as well as Jay Helfert and Grady Mathews so that they can learn how to recreate that success. There is an immesaurable amount of knowledge and experience that we have with all of these men. We should leave our egos at the door and listen to what they have to say.

Remember also, that the success of a tour is not only dependent upon the players or the tour staff, it is largely dependent upon sponsorship support, and the support of the fans and vendors. If everybody shows up but nobody spends money - chances are the tour will have problems. It takes everybody assisting everybody - instead of trying to out-do them. I still remain hopeful for the future.

 

[toomanybugs]

middle to late 80's.

When they showed the major men's tournaments on ESPN and I am not talking about trick shots.....
I also enjoyed seeing the Snooker competitions from overseas.

IMO, I think the sport needs a major OVERHAUL, to get a real investors and/or promoters behind it; that will put some real money in to marketing and prizes otherwise the sport is going to go nowhere. The sport needs to be televised in the same level as bowling and golf to get any noticeable notice in the sporting community ( I am thinking of auto racing would be a premier goal).
We all know who the major pool players are, but till everyone else in the sporting community can talk about them in the same league as other sport personalities the sport is going nowhere soon. We need to get it out of the back rooms and into the forefront otherwise its going to stay as it is now, which really pisses me off at no end.

Adam (31 yrs playing pool)

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

I Still Miss Corrine & Bonnie

The Florida Pro tour has been running for nearing 20 years and it's gotten better with the Great Seminole Tribe of Florida's backing..... imo
Doug

 

[JAM]

In your opinion, when was the last time there was a large scale, successful mens pool tour? Has there ever really been one? If so...what was different?

Maybe another way to look at it is this: When was the golden age of pool? When were players making the most money and how was it done?

The golden age of pool in my opinion is when the American tournament trail was traveled predominantly by American pool players.

Action was plentiful around the good old U.S. of A., and the tournaments were always hard fought with excellent play.

Pool purse payouts in the 1980's were the same as they are today. Yet, we all know the cost of living has tripled since the '80s. There are not as many American so-called "pros" today as there were in the 1980's either. First-place prize in 1985 at the Binghamton Open, held in Binghamton, New York, was $25,000. How many open pool tournaments today pay $25,000 for first place? A nice hotel room in 1985 may have cost $40 or $50. Today, a nice hotel room is $100 on up. A gallon of gasoline has probably quadrupled from the cost of a gallon in 1985.

The American pool pie today is not quite the same as it used to be. In fact, there is no slice of pie for American players. They are scampering around the country, hoping to eat a few crumbs, like skinny little brown sparrows, starved to death, fighting for survival.

American pool players have to share these precious pool pie crumbs with the world. It's not quite the same in other countries, which have nationality-restricted tours and/or low payouts.

Come to America where we welcome players of all nationalities, creed, and color. Soon, the breed of American pool players will become extinct and wander in a wilderness of no resources to sustain themselves. The crumbs will diminish, and the American pool players of today may become the last of a dying breed tomorrow.

That's my story, and I am sticking with it.

JAM

 

[jay helfert]

The golden age of pool in my opinion is when the American tournament trail was traveled predominantly by American pool players.

Action was plentiful around the good old U.S. of A., and the tournaments were always hard fought with excellent play.

Pool purse payouts in the 1980's were the same as they are today. Yet, we all know the cost of living has tripled since the '80s. There are not as many American so-called "pros" today as there were in the 1980's either. First-place prize in 1985 at the Binghamton Open, held in Binghamton, New York, was $25,000. How many open pool tournaments today pay $25,000 for first place? A nice hotel room in 1985 may have cost $40 or $50. Today, a nice hotel room is $100 on up. A gallon of gasoline has probably quadrupled from the cost of a gallon in 1985.

The American pool pie today is not quite the same as it used to be. In fact, there is no slice of pie for American players. They are scampering around the country, hoping to eat a few crumbs, like skinny little brown sparrows, starved to death, fighting for survival.

American pool players have to share these precious pool pie crumbs with the world. It's not quite the same in other countries, which have nationality-restricted tours and/or low payouts.

Come to America where we welcome players of all nationalities, creed, and color. Soon, the breed of American pool players will become extinct and wander in a wilderness of no resources to sustain themselves. The crumbs will diminish, and the American pool players of today may become the last of a dying breed tomorrow.

That's my story, and I am sticking with it.

JAM

Take a look at the PGA golf tour. The only American on top is Tiger. Jim Furyk is a contender also, and Phil M. as well. Most of the top 20 players are foreigners. I say good for them, if they play that good.

I feel the same way about Pool. Let the best players play, and let the best man win. Pool is a "democracy". Everyone has an equal chance. If the Americans can't cut it, whose fault is that. I don't blame Efren, Busty, Dennis or Lee Van for the fact that Americans have trouble winning on their own soil. I don't hear Shane complaining. He wants to go over there and take them on, and he will too.

 

[JAM]

Take a look at the PGA golf tour. The only American on top is Tiger. Jim Furyk is a contender also, and Phil M. as well. Most of the top 20 players are foreigners. I say good for them, if they play that good.

I feel the same way about Pool. Let the best players play, and let the best man win. Pool is a "democracy". Everyone has an equal chance. If the Americans can't cut it, whose fault is that. I don't blame Efren, Busty, Dennis or Lee Van for the fact that Americans have trouble winning on their own soil. I don't hear Shane complaining. He wants to go over there and take them on, and he will too.

Jay, with all due respect, if POOL in America was anywhere near what the PGA golf tour is today, there would be no problem. The pool pie would be huge, and everybody could fill themselves up to their heart's content.

The fact of the matter is pool today doesn't enjoy the same monies as the PGA. I just can't see the comparison as clear as you do, maybe.

JAM

 

[Tom In Cincy]

The last time there was a successful (money wise) men's organization was prior to the 1950s. The TOP professional pool players traveled from city to city giving exhibitions and making a decent wage for the time.

The major tournaments were Round Robin and took 7-10 days to complete with 'standing room only' spectaters with coat and tie. These matches were held in Hotel ballrooms (for those that don't know what a ballroom is, think of a basketball arena with pool tables at center court and stadium seating to watch the matches) Some hotels charged $1 a day or even higher.. that would equal to about $100 in 2007 money.

Pro players were treated like dignataries with all the respect and honor. Their exhibitions cost pennies to watch, but they were getting $500/week for these when the average wage was $30/week.

What changed? Pro Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Tennis, Golf, Nascar, Bowling, TV $$$ for all the aforementioned.

In the mid 50s, all the major sports became more popular with the TV reaching the public to intice the audience. Pool never recovered. Pool was a 'had to be there' live attraction, not very good for TV at all, and it hasn't changed much since the 50s.

Pool cannot compete with the major sports offered on TV at this time, nor without any major change to Pool, will it ever compete with the NOW Established Major SPORTS. The US TV Public wants to watch the major sports. What can pool do to changet their mind? I wish I had the answer, I could implement it and then retire.

Maybe Charlie and DP can sell the rest of the world TV pocket billiards, but it will be (IMO) a very tough sell in the USA.

 

[jay helfert]

Jay, with all due respect, if POOL in America was anywhere near what the PGA golf tour is today, there would be no problem. The pool pie would be huge, and everybody could fill themselves up to their heart's content.

The fact of the matter is pool today doesn't enjoy the same monies as the PGA. I just can't see the comparison as clear as you do, maybe.

JAM

It would be sweet, if you could finish 15th and win $75,000. Then you would see many young AMERICAN teenagers taking up pool. Most young athletes go where the money is, and rightly so. You really have to fall in love with pool.

I've always said that a real pro pool tour with big money attached would attract millions of people to the game. I tried years ago to sell this concept to the BCA. No sale! Look at what the WPBT has done for women's pool. Decent money and major television exposure seems to be working for them. I don't see why they don't expand this tour to sixteen or more events.

In the Philipines, the money offered in America (10 to 15K) looks like big money to them, and it is. You can just about retire there on 100K.

 

[smokeandapancak]

The golden age of pool in my opinion is when the American tournament trail was traveled predominantly by American pool players.

Action was plentiful around the good old U.S. of A., and the tournaments were always hard fought with excellent play.

Pool purse payouts in the 1980's were the same as they are today. Yet, we all know the cost of living has tripled since the '80s. There are not as many American so-called "pros" today as there were in the 1980's either. First-place prize in 1985 at the Binghamton Open, held in Binghamton, New York, was $25,000. How many open pool tournaments today pay $25,000 for first place? A nice hotel room in 1985 may have cost $40 or $50. Today, a nice hotel room is $100 on up. A gallon of gasoline has probably quadrupled from the cost of a gallon in 1985.

The American pool pie today is not quite the same as it used to be. In fact, there is no slice of pie for American players. They are scampering around the country, hoping to eat a few crumbs, like skinny little brown sparrows, starved to death, fighting for survival.

American pool players have to share these precious pool pie crumbs with the world. It's not quite the same in other countries, which have nationality-restricted tours and/or low payouts.

Come to America where we welcome players of all nationalities, creed, and color. Soon, the breed of American pool players will become extinct and wander in a wilderness of no resources to sustain themselves. The crumbs will diminish, and the American pool players of today may become the last of a dying breed tomorrow.

That's my story, and I am sticking with it.

JAM

pull out a gun and shoot me in the freaking face........enough already!!!!


there are MILLIONS of people who are out almost every night of the week to play in their leagues or local tourneys....

there are cue builders who sale a wooden stick with a steel joint and a leather tip for 4K a pop..and they have a 7 year wait list....

a certain promo company (your Fav) has just returned the automaker to the ranks of our sports sponsors...

Pool has spread all over the world and is broadcast live on TVs in many countries..

guys have BIG dollar contracts with Beer compainies........

almost every game is played to higher level than ever before....

It aint all that bad....

and Amercian pool will be fine. Shane, Landon, hell Banks jr, along with a host of others... are all very young and very good..

 

[JAM]

It would be sweet, if you could finish 15th and win $75,000. Then you would see many young AMERICAN teenagers taking up pool. Most young athletes go where the money is, and rightly so. You really have to fall in love with pool.

I've always said that a real pro pool tour with big money attached would attract millions of people to the game. I tried years ago to sell this concept to the BCA. No sale! Look at what the WPBT has done for women's pool. Decent money and major television exposure seems to be working for them. I don't see why they don't expand this tour to sixteen or more events.

In the Philipines, the money offered in America (10 to 15K) looks like big money to them, and it is. You can just about retire there on 100K.

10- and $15,000 as a first-place prize in the 1980's went a lot further than it does today. That is for sure.

I do not believe there are as many young American players today as there were in the '80s. Yes, Shane Van Boening, Landon, and a few others are the exception.

I would like to fast-forward 10 years from now. Do you think the existing lot of American young players will eventually throw in the towel if they can't survive or make ends meet? If they don't, will there be any events here in America for them to compete in?

If American pool players will have to travel around the world to other countries to earn 10- and $15,000 in 2017, I would venture to guess that the expenses associated with traveling the globe will be mighty heavy.

Pool is dying a slow and ugly death when it comes to competive pool in America, at least for the men. You are right that the WPBA has done wonders for professional lady players. The men, though, is another story.

JAM

 

[Blackjack]

They are scampering around the country, hoping to eat a few crumbs, like skinny little brown sparrows, starved to death, fighting for survival.

lol... I just got this visual of Buddy Hall, Shannon Daulton, and Danny Basavich dressed up as skinny little brown sparrows.

 

[JAM]

pull out a gun and shoot me in the freaking face........enough already!!!!


there are MILLIONS of people who are out almost every night of the week to play in their leagues or local tourneys....

there are cue builders who sale a wooden stick with a steel joint and a leather tip for 4K a pop..and they have a 7 year wait list....

a certain promo company (your Fav) has just returned the automaker to the ranks of our sports sponsors...

Pool has spread all over the world and is broadcast live on TVs in many countries..

guys have BIG dollar contracts with Beer compainies........

almost every game is played to higher level than ever before....

It aint all that bad....

and Amercian pool will be fine. Shane, Landon, hell Banks jr, along with a host of others... are all very young and very good..

You're kind of cute, wearing those rose-colored glasses of yours.

Please enlighten me what American pool player has "BIG-dollar contracts." There is a handful who are sponsored by American pool industry members, and the rest of the American players who compete on a professional level are starving.

JAM

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

lol... I just got this visual of Buddy Hall, Shannon Daulton, and Danny Basavich dressed up as skinny little brown sparrows.

That's odd, I pictured Tommy Kennedy and Nick Varner.
D.
( a picture is worth nine words....... where's corvette1340 when you need him )

 

[Blackjack]

That's odd, I pictured Tommy Kennedy and Nick Varner.
D.
( a picture is worth nine words....... where's corvette1340 when you need him )

I will see Tommy tomorrow in Daytona and I'll buy him lunch. Deal? Maybe I'll buy him 2 lunches.

David
(not scraping for change between the sofa cushions)

 

[smokeandapancak]

You're kind of cute, wearing those rose-colored glasses of yours.

Please enlighten me what American pool player has "BIG-dollar contracts." There is a handful who are sponsored by American pool industry members, and the rest of the American players who compete on a professional level are starving.

JAM

There are other people from other countries that play pool on tours sponsored by large companies.....

The (pool) world does not live and die with the USA...............

 

[VonRhett]

Un-faakin-believable!

What a jaded, cynical, prejudiced, bigoted reply!

So to paraphrase JAM, the problem with Pool in America is that we allow "them thar furanors" to play in Tournaments?

You still burning crosses with White Sheets over your head??

Dam I feel sorry for you.

Don't bother replying - I won't revisit this thread.

-von

The golden age of pool in my opinion is when the American tournament trail was traveled predominantly by American pool players.

Action was plentiful around the good old U.S. of A., and the tournaments were always hard fought with excellent play.

Pool purse payouts in the 1980's were the same as they are today. Yet, we all know the cost of living has tripled since the '80s. There are not as many American so-called "pros" today as there were in the 1980's either. First-place prize in 1985 at the Binghamton Open, held in Binghamton, New York, was $25,000. How many open pool tournaments today pay $25,000 for first place? A nice hotel room in 1985 may have cost $40 or $50. Today, a nice hotel room is $100 on up. A gallon of gasoline has probably quadrupled from the cost of a gallon in 1985.

The American pool pie today is not quite the same as it used to be. In fact, there is no slice of pie for American players. They are scampering around the country, hoping to eat a few crumbs, like skinny little brown sparrows, starved to death, fighting for survival.

American pool players have to share these precious pool pie crumbs with the world. It's not quite the same in other countries, which have nationality-restricted tours and/or low payouts.

Come to America where we welcome players of all nationalities, creed, and color. Soon, the breed of American pool players will become extinct and wander in a wilderness of no resources to sustain themselves. The crumbs will diminish, and the American pool players of today may become the last of a dying breed tomorrow.

That's my story, and I am sticking with it.

JAM

 

[JustPlay]

Between 1986 and 1991 the MPBA was the big tour for mens professional pool and they had about 15+ events a year all across the country

 

[Blackjack]

Between 1986 and 1991 the MPBA was the big tour for mens professional pool and they had about 15+ events a year all across the country

You are correct.

In 1993 they trimmed the tour from 16 events to only 12. They figured if they held less events that the prize money would increase. They also ventured into a collector card series with World Wide Collectibles, and World Team Billiards (sponsored by Meucci, take a bow, Bob). Then along came RJ Reynolds - the Challenge of Champions fiascos - Hopkins resignation - The PCA - the coitus interruptus by Camel - the tour folded - Mackey was awarded the money - Mackey disappeared - Charlie started the UPA - the IPT came and went - and here we are in 2007.


(edited to add the PCA... how could I forget that?..lol)

 

[corvette1340]

Meanwhile, back at sparrow headquarters...