A question for veteran members
- Thread starter bomber
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Nice picture!!! Great job
Topic: I think the Eurotour is on it's way to be great. The 7 yearly tournaments attracts in average 250 players each, some played on hotels and a few in poolhalls, semifinals and finals delayed on Eurosport, live-coverage of all matches rack by rack, some matches live on bwin where you can also bet on the outcome of the match and each racks.
As for now the eurotour is probably not worth the trip for many Americans, but it sure is for the asians and I think more asians will join it. About 65 000 $ in total pricemoney on each tournament, and increasing each year.
The tour has had almost 100 tournaments during the years, and still going strong.
I think it is also the toughest tour in the world. Check the rankings on www.eurotour.nu, and check when was the last time worldbeaters as Oliver Ortmann, Marcus Chamat, Ralf Souquet, Niels Feijen, Nick van den Berg, Darren Appleton, Mika Immonen, Thorsten Hohmann ++ actually won one of these tournaments, or reached the semifinal!
Think it is more than 2 years since Ralf Souquet, maybe Europe's best 9-ball player, finished 3rd or better on the eurotour!
Topic: I think the Eurotour is on it's way to be great. The 7 yearly tournaments attracts in average 250 players each, some played on hotels and a few in poolhalls, semifinals and finals delayed on Eurosport, live-coverage of all matches rack by rack, some matches live on bwin where you can also bet on the outcome of the match and each racks.
As for now the eurotour is probably not worth the trip for many Americans, but it sure is for the asians and I think more asians will join it. About 65 000 $ in total pricemoney on each tournament, and increasing each year.
The tour has had almost 100 tournaments during the years, and still going strong.
I think it is also the toughest tour in the world. Check the rankings on www.eurotour.nu, and check when was the last time worldbeaters as Oliver Ortmann, Marcus Chamat, Ralf Souquet, Niels Feijen, Nick van den Berg, Darren Appleton, Mika Immonen, Thorsten Hohmann ++ actually won one of these tournaments, or reached the semifinal!
Think it is more than 2 years since Ralf Souquet, maybe Europe's best 9-ball player, finished 3rd or better on the eurotour!
JAM said:
That was the BC Open. Held at the same time as the BC Open Golf Tournament. Included a Pro-Am with Pro Pool Players, Pro Golfers, and local celebrities, including Jhonny Hart, of BC Comic strip fame. Won that year by a certain left handed pool player of JAM's acquaintance
Pinkowski said later that year that he had been "asked" by other promoters to lower the first prize to $10,000, as they could not raise that kind of money. Gary's opinion was, that they just didn't want to do the work he was willing to do to raise that kind of money. Who knows? Anyway, because of pressure from other promoters, first prize at the BC Open was left at $10,000 from then on.
bomber said:
From 1986 to 1996.Even after allen hopkins relinquished his responsibilties as an office bearor the tour went very well under the leadership of DonMackey.I know that some posterers on this board had bad blood with Don Mackey and I know some of the shady stuff that took place during that period.
I will dare say that golden age for pool was during Don Mackey`s time.
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Buddy's Favorite Saying Is, "Let Them Eat Cakes"
Yeah, but my money is on Blubby Hall.
Doug
( I meant 'buddy', Buddy Hall........ I really did........ don't tell Buddy )
punter said:
Yeah, but my money is on Blubby Hall.
Doug
( I meant 'buddy', Buddy Hall........ I really did........ don't tell Buddy )
vagabond said:From 1986 to 1996.Even after allen hopkins relinquished his responsibilties as an office bearor the tour went very well under the leadership of DonMackey.I know that some on this board had bad blood with Don Mackey and I know some of the shady stuff that took place during that period.
I will dare say that golden age for pool was during Don Mackey`s time.
Vagabond
All bad blood aside, I will say that when it came to trying to push more money into pool and get more exposure for the tour - nobody tried harder than Don Mackey did. Nobody. Too bad it ended like it did.
corvette1340 said:
Corvette.. Can you edit and repost your picture? It is pushing the text boundaries outside the normal frame of the webpage.
Russ
JAM said:
No, I think that by and large, the existing lot of young American players will not piss away what big winning they have by gambling it in casinos, offering Efren the 5-out just to be in action, etc..etc..etc..
I read once that the average American will make $500,000 over their whole lifetime. I have heard of poolplayers that have earned $100,000 in a weekend. Did they invest it? Did they put a downpayment on some commercial property with it? No.. They were BROKE AS A JOKE within a week.
Cry me a freaking river.....
Russ
JAM said:
It is very interesting to project the future of mens professional pool. If you look at the AZB's top 20 mens list, this is the class of players up and comming players has to look forward too compete against in major events (providing he gets into the top 4 or 5 places of these events). Kind of discuraging.
Since these are the players winning most of these events. The current pro players today are part of the elite in the world and will most likey stay that way. The new young players, will most likey give it shot while they are still young enough to do so with out affecting there future to learn some different skills for a job/career in another field or even goto school. It is just too unstable.
Pool players should really be thankful for tours such at the SE tour, Joss tour and the Viking tour, just to name a few. The bottom line is income to provide a heathly living. Pool is so difficult to get really good at. And to compete at a professional level maybe too much time to be sacrificed by these young players with no reward for it...
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JustPlay said:
I agree. I have always said that the regional tours offer the best bang for the buck. They afford a pool player the ability to maintain employment, which pay the bills.
There are some kindred souls who do have a great deal of passion for pool, and as such, they will follow the tournament trail, giving it their all. Those who do make it to the top will have an air of freedom, unconquerable to most, and their spirits will soar. Monetary gain may not be as high a priority as the satisfaction of knowing that they are the best.
The opportunities available to players today pale in comparison to the '80s, which I consider the golden era of pool. I do not know what the change agent could be that would elevate professional pool to a higher platform, but what I do know is that the current state of affairs, here in the United States, is worse than two decades ago.
JAM
Blackjack said:
Blackjack,
Pro Billiard Tour severed the relationship with ESPN because Don Mackey did not agree with the format ESPN proposed.ESPN wanted it to be a race to 7 and other stuff.Don thought it will be ``a Gong Show`` and not a pro pool and vowed to disallow ESPN destroy the pro pool.That man did have some positives.
vagabond said:Blackjack,
Pro Billiard Tour severed the relationship with ESPN because Don Mackey did not agree with the format ESPN proposed.ESPN wanted it to be a race to 7 and other stuff.Don thought it will be ``a Gong Show`` and not a pro pool and vowed to disallow ESPN destroy the pro pool.That man did have some positives.
Vagabond,
Agreed. IMO (and you and I have sat at the table and talked about this face to face) a lot of the blame should be placed upon Larry Kiger and Wayne Robertson of RJ Reynolds Tobacco. They were the marketing geniuses that refused to listen to Don or anybody else on how to market our game and our players. They wanted to do things their way, which was not the language they were speaking when they courted Don Mackey in the early stages of that relationship.
I do agree with you that Don Mackey had his heart in the right place - but perhaps he just moved a little too fast a little too soon. I hope we have all learned from that.
Blackjack said:
You know David I like you and Vag, but Mackey was not the good guy you portray him to be. He was looking to line his own pockets at the expense of others. I knew him well, too well!
The pool players once again hitched their wagon to the wrong star. Yes, Larry Kiger had his own ideas on how to market pro pool, which was sometimes at odds with Mackey. But he was responsible for putting R.J. Reynold's money into the sport. Their investment was well over a million a year and growing.
The players (led by Mackey) made a BIG mistake when they turned against this guy (Kiger). He was in a position to throw millions at them. And was prepared to do so. I know this first hand as well. If the players had co-operated with Kiger and not made stupid demands and acted unprofessional (see Earl walk out in the Finals), they may have been playing in million dollar pool tournaments today.
Someone once told me that the pool players are their own worst enemies. After that fiasco I finally believed them. There is more to this story. That is only the tip of the iceberg.
I'm surprised that nobody has yet brought up the lack of public interest in the game. Isn't that the real missing ingredient? Build public interest and the sponsors will come (and all the other problems will become background noise).
Unfortunately, you can't build public interest from nothing - it comes from people having a personal interest in the game. Take soccer, for instance. Until it became a part of growing up in the US you saw more televised pool than soccer. Now that "soccer mom" is a familiar phrase we have a growing professional soccer industry with big money behind it. Americans now relate to soccer on a personal level that didn't exist before.
I don't think the connection with school is coincidental - if pool was more successful as an intramural competition on US campuses the public's interest would be a given.
pj
chgo
Unfortunately, you can't build public interest from nothing - it comes from people having a personal interest in the game. Take soccer, for instance. Until it became a part of growing up in the US you saw more televised pool than soccer. Now that "soccer mom" is a familiar phrase we have a growing professional soccer industry with big money behind it. Americans now relate to soccer on a personal level that didn't exist before.
I don't think the connection with school is coincidental - if pool was more successful as an intramural competition on US campuses the public's interest would be a given.
pj
chgo
jay helfert said:
Jay,
I was skirting around the negatives and pointing the positives.Infact he is not my favorite either.
one time Don asked me what I thought of all the rumors floating around about he mismanaging tour funds.I said ``Don,god only knows the truth.I do not care and it does not bother me even if you mismanaged the funds but you are doing a dam good job organizing the pro tour``.
Rep for corvette's pic, that brought a smile to my face.
Jam, I don't get why you sound so sad at the idea that americans might end up with less prize money than foreign players. Maybe the foreigner worked harder for and deserves it more. For that matter, maybe he needs it worse if he came from a country that doesn't have the same wealth and opportunity.
To me, the overall happiness level of the universe hasn't decreased just because some guy with the phillipines has the cash in his pockets instead of some guy from america. I don't want that money going to a guy based on where he was born, I want it there based on how well he's played.
Also, I can't feel sad for all the pool players who are starving because they can't beat foreign players and make a living off the winnings. You can hardly make a living anyway playing pool. Anyone looking to live off pool should be ready in a heartbeat to accept he may have to get a 'real job' (and/or invest wisely as russ pointed out).
Not to say it isn't work to get to the top of the pool world (ditto other spots), just that I can't feel bad for people who want to make a living playing a game, even a game I love.
Jam, I don't get why you sound so sad at the idea that americans might end up with less prize money than foreign players. Maybe the foreigner worked harder for and deserves it more. For that matter, maybe he needs it worse if he came from a country that doesn't have the same wealth and opportunity.
To me, the overall happiness level of the universe hasn't decreased just because some guy with the phillipines has the cash in his pockets instead of some guy from america. I don't want that money going to a guy based on where he was born, I want it there based on how well he's played.
Also, I can't feel sad for all the pool players who are starving because they can't beat foreign players and make a living off the winnings. You can hardly make a living anyway playing pool. Anyone looking to live off pool should be ready in a heartbeat to accept he may have to get a 'real job' (and/or invest wisely as russ pointed out).
Not to say it isn't work to get to the top of the pool world (ditto other spots), just that I can't feel bad for people who want to make a living playing a game, even a game I love.
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CreeDo said:
I am not sure what you mean by I "sound so sad at the idea that Americans might end up with less prize money than foreign players," but it's the sentence after that which I find curious.
What difference does it make where the player came from who wins the money or who loses the money?
CreeDo said:
The "overall happiness level of the universe"? Do I detect just a wee bit of sarcasm, Creedo?
CreeDo said:
If a person decides they want to compete in professional pool, then it's, quite frankly, his/her business why he/she desires not to have one of CreeDo's "real jobs."
I think Minnesota Fats just about sums up this line of thinking, flipping to the other side of the coin: You see, there's two different -- there's a scuffler and a hustler. A hustler is one that's always in action and gets it once in a while, see, and a good hustler gets it more often. Then there's a scuffler. He never gets it. Understand? All he ever does is waste his time, gets in everybody's way. You understand? He goes through life, and he's a failure.
That's kind of funny, when you think about it.
Some folks seem to think pool players can't get a job and don't invest money, so don't feel sorry for them, but Minnesota Fats gives the pool player's point of view about this line of thinking and does it rather succinctly, I might add. CreeDO said:
I don't believe anyone was asking you to "feel bad for people who want to make a living playing a game," even the game you love.
JAM