A sellers responsibility.........?

kvinbrwr said:
Please don't take this the wrong way, but considering that the buyer now has control of whether you get your funds released, you might want to stop being a dick to him. If he's scamming, your cue is gone, but if he's just a buyer that asked for tracking and didn't get it so he opened a PayPal claim, he may be very willing to close the claim once the cue is received if the seller doesn't make him a hater.

Kevin
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Good advice, I believe the buyer has a chance to come here and take the high road in this matter. The cue will be delivered to somebody, the sooner it is cleared up the better it will be for both parties. I believe that the tracking number was available to him via Paypal, but he has no access to the account for that information. He could have had the information the day it was shipped if he simply asked whoever helped him pay via Paypal. The tracking number was always available, he just didn't or couldn't get it, which is a huge red flag to me.
 
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D_Lewis said:
I agree, I would rather bet then sell any day. I sold two items and I'll never sell anything on the board again. I just bought way too much stuff in a short period of time and I got sick of looking at it all.

There is only so much I can put up with before I get irritated. Literally, over 20 PMs before he even paid, then another 20 asking about shipping and when the cue would arrive, then a few asking to pay more money for faster shipping, then 20 asking for the tracking number after it had already shipped.

What if I had lost the tracking info?
What about all of the other threads posted on here where the guy waits three months and doesnt hear anything? Did I do that? I think not. I simply asked the guy to stop sending me PMs every day and that the cue would be there soon. (which it will probably arrive today)



I posted the tracking info in paypal last night to get up this morning with more messages AFTER I posted the info. From people who arent even involved!

I understand that the buyer has the control right now but at this point, I could really care less. I want to out the guy for being an annoying buyer. I wouldnt call him a scam artist as of yet.
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Whatever you feel is the best way to handle your money. If you feel it is worth the $250 in order to be able to rant on the guy, well, its your dough. If you'll look at the responses in this thread, you might want to consider the possibility that rather than an annoying buyer, what you really have is a buyer that got annoyed with the attitude of the seller.

Thanks again

Kevin
 
hangemhigh said:
Good advice, I believe the buyer has a chance to come here and take the high road in this matter. The cue will be delivered to somebody, the sooner it is cleared up the better it will be for both parties. I believe that the tracking number was available to him via Paypal, but he has no access to the account for that information. He could have had the information the day it was shipped if he simply asked whoever helped him pay via Paypal. The tracking number was always available, he just didn't or couldn't get it, which is a huge red flag to me.
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If you were to buy something on here from a seller, would you give them the benefit of the doubt or constantly harass them to no end. How many sellers do you have that send you 50 PMs? How many of them just wait for their item to arrive? Maybe after a few weeks they would send a message asking for an update on the shipping or if you had a tracking number, but they wouldnt harass you to no end day in, day out.

Its been two weeks since he paid and he doesnt have the item with international shipping, is that uncommon? (no) Sure the website might say its 5-7 day shipping, but its 5-7 business days plus the time it takes to get from Canada to the US plus the time its held at the border. Ive waited, literally 2 months for a baseball card that was shipped in a bubble mailer before. Sometimes they have to apply taxes on the item etc, that delays the shipping also.
 
kvinbrwr said:
Whatever you feel is the best way to handle your money. If you feel it is worth the $250 in order to be able to rant on the guy, well, its your dough. If you'll look at the responses in this thread, you might want to consider the possibility that rather than an annoying buyer, what you really have is a buyer that got annoyed with the attitude of the seller.

Thanks again

Kevin
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I agree 100%, at this point Ive just had enough and Im frustrated with the whole situation.

It is all up to the buyer at this point, even though the item will show as shipped, I dont think with the international shipping (Canada/US) that it shows the address shipped to, I know it shows the city and state along with date and whatnot but Im pretty sure it doesnt show the address on either system.
 
D_Lewis said:
If you were to buy something on here from a seller, would you give them the benefit of the doubt or constantly harass them to no end. How many sellers do you have that send you 50 PMs? How many of them just wait for their item to arrive? Maybe after a few weeks they would send a message asking for an update on the shipping or if you had a tracking number, but they wouldnt harass you to no end day in, day out.

Its been two weeks since he paid and he doesnt have the item with international shipping, is that uncommon? (no) Sure the website might say its 5-7 day shipping, but its 5-7 business days plus the time it takes to get from Canada to the US plus the time its held at the border. Ive waited, literally 2 months for a baseball card that was shipped in a bubble mailer before. Sometimes they have to apply taxes on the item etc, that delays the shipping also.
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Bottom line, ignore the multiple messages every day, and reply once at the end of the day with the tracking number, and be friendly. The next day, ignore the multiple texts, and reply once at the end of the day, repeating the tracking number and telling him when you think it might possibly arrive. The same thing the next night if needed.

With the tracking number information at your earliest convenience, he may have not sent you so many messages. But, you don't know that since you admitted to not ever sending it to him.

Your experience with a baseball card has nothing to do with him.

Kelly
 
Let me strongly suggest something fishy is going on here with this transaction.

Everyone knows that Paypal sends an e-mail to the buyer when shipping is purchased through them or if the seller enters a tracking number. It is very suspicious that this guy wants a tracking number when one was there for him the whole time. It is even more suspicious that he went back to whoever let him use their Paypal account to file a claim, but he couldn't get the information he was looking for the day the cue was shipped? He could, however, take the time to get the account holder to file a claim against the seller when there was proof of shipping sent to their account. Something smells with this course of events. I know the seller has culpability in the whole transaction, but it pales in comparison to the moves made by the buyer.
 
hangemhigh said:
Let me strongly suggest something fishy is going on here with this transaction.

Everyone knows that Paypal sends an e-mail to the buyer when shipping is purchased through them or if the seller enters a tracking number. It is very suspicious that this guy wants a tracking number when one was there for him the whole time. It is even more suspicious that he went back to whoever let him use their Paypal account to file a claim, but he couldn't get the information he was looking for the day the cue was shipped? He could, however, take the time to get the account holder to file a claim against the seller when there was proof of shipping sent to their account. Something smells with this course of events. I know the seller has culpability in the whole transaction, but it pales in comparison to the moves made by the buyer.
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Thanks for this message but you are not accurate with the info.

I posted the tracking info after the paypal claim had been entered, not before.

Thanks for all the PMs with support from friends of the board also.
 
D_Lewis said:
Thanks for this message but you are not accurate with the info.

I posted the tracking info after the paypal claim had been entered, not before.

Thanks for all the PMs with support from friends of the board also.
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Yeah that's the way I read it. I think your best bet is to proceed as if he is a honest buyer that tried to protect himself and quit heating him up as he now holds the key to your funds. He might be a scammer, but if he is, you are out your $$ or in for a lot more than $250 in hassle to try and get it back.

Thanks

Kevin
 
D_Lewis, a few questions:

On what date did you receive payment?
On what date did you ship the cue?
Have you still not provided a tracking number directly to the buyer? If not, why?

Your tone throughout your posts implies that you have a light attitude toward these sales. You provide little detail about your end of the transaction, overlook red flags, try to dismiss it with jokes about yachts and whatever, and then blame the sales process for being burdensome. Actually, you should have handled it better. Based on the info you provided, you should have done the following:

- You should have told the buyer to use his confirmed PayPal address, or to make the address he wanted to use a confirmed PayPal address. This is for your protection, which makes even more sense when you're shipping internationally.

- You should have sent an e-mail no later than the morning after you shipped the cue and absolutely should have included the tracking number in that e-mail; you should have closed the e-mail by asking the buyer to confirm he could access the tracking info. If a shipping delay arises, communicate it to the buyer with your apologies and don't let the delay get out of hand.

- After the buyer confirmed he could access the tracking info, you're in the clear. If the buyers starts pestering you because he isn't on the ball enough to work with the deliverer, tell him in clear terms that you did your part and that he needs to contact the delivery company directly.

That you "just didn't" do these things in squarely on you. You need to do it right for the buyer's sake and yours.
 
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LC3 said:
D_Lewis, a few questions:

On what date did you receive payment?
On what date did you ship the cue?
Have you still not provided a tracking number directly to the buyer? If not, why?

Your tone throughout your posts implies that you have a light attitude toward these sales. You provide little detail about your end of the transaction, overlook red flags, try to dismiss it with jokes about yachts and whatever, and then blame the sales process for being burdensome. Actually, you should have handled it better. Based on the info you provided, you should have done the following:

- You should have told the buyer to use his confirmed PayPal address, or to make the address he wanted to use a confirmed PayPal address. This is for your protection, which makes even more sense when you're shipping internationally.

- You should have sent an e-mail no later than the morning after you shipped the cue and absolutely should have included the tracking number in that e-mail; you should have closed the e-mail by asking the buyer to confirm he could access the tracking info. If a shipping delay arises, communicate it to the buyer with your apologies and don't let the delay get out of hand.

- After the buyer confirmed he could access the tracking info, you're in the clear. If the buyers starts pestering you because he isn't on the ball enough to work with the deliverer, tell him in clear terms that you did your part and that he needs to contact the delivery company directly.

That you "just didn't" do these things in squarely on you. You need to do it right for the buyer's sake and yours.
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I stated on the record that I waited a couple of days because I thought there may be a potential chargeback, I transfered the money into the bank account and then shipped the cue.

I like the last part where you said I have to do things for the buyers sake and mine. Shipping the cue with tracking and full insurance is for us both, which I did. Asking politely for the buyer to not message me 20 times a day reassuring him that I shipped the cue already seems to be the most polite I can get on the situation.

I was on here between the time I shipped the cue and now and I have NOT messaged the buyer with the tracking number, I still wont. It is listed in the paypal file, he can find it there. I have no more patience for gatorjoe.

I did show that I had a bit of light attitude towards the sale, its not rocket science, you pay, I ship, it shows up. I cant make shipping happen any faster and I really dont have the time or the patience for harassment from the buyer after Ive already shipped the cue.

There are a lot of things you say I "SHOULD" have done. If the buyer had a little bit of patience and just waited a reasonable shipping time, the cue would be there. But instead they decided to constantly message and irritate me to the point where I dont even want to reply to their messages. I have never once asked a seller where my item is, I try my best to deal with reputable dealers on here and people with a good post size. Ive never been screwed on buying something on the site although I have been stiffed by a bettor on a bet here and have yet to be paid after a year and a half. I know what it feels like to be screwed and wouldnt do it to someone else, this on the other hand is not someone getting screwed. (unless that someone is me, time will tell)

The Beginner said:
You should have sell the cue to me Dan then we can play race to 9 and you will give me 3 games and 6 and out ..to try to win my money back :grin-square:

did you pay Don for the tape that you used to wrap the cue?
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Jun, sounds good. Hopefully the cue gets returned to sender and I'll just refund the payment minus my costs and we'll play some.

I airbarrelled Don on the cost of the tape, Im good like that.
 
Also for the record, this was the first item I had sold and I wasnt up to date on all of the shipping procedures with varified address and whatnot.

I have two shipping address' on my paypal account, I think the address I usually ship to is unverified.
 
D_Lewis said:
I recently sold my first two items on AZ Billiards.

Item 1: I sold two books, I couldnt find the second book (still have no idea where it is) so I refunded the payment and shipped the one book and will ship the second when it appears.

Item 2: I sold my daily player for a great deal to a newer member without any previous iTrader feedback. I got lowballed on my cheap price, tonnes of PMs promising payment and I was finally paid. The seller used their girlfriends/mothers/sisters paypal account. I waited a few days after recieving payment to see if there would be a chargeback because the buyer seemed shady to me. I ship the cue. I get massive amounts of PMs about the cue being shipped, when will it be here, etc etc. I am shipping the cue from Canada to Florida, sometimes there are delays at the border and it is especially bad with oversize oackages. (above 36 inches, the tube was 38, I should have cut it down smaller) At this point Ive really had enough of the continuous PMs (they were to the point where I had to empty my inbox on a daily basis) and I ask the seller if he can please not send me any more messages as Ive already shipped the cue. Fastforward to yesterday, the buyer opens a non-receipt case via paypal 14 days after they initially paid for the cue saying they emailed me and havent gotten a reply if the item had shipped or not. I send a bit of a heated message to the buyer because I am obviously irritated to no end at the constant PMs.

Fastforward to this morning, I get a message from a 'friend' of the buyer saying "Im emailing you on behalf of my friend "gator joe" Im just here to say that ive been a member here for a while and have more than a perfect itrader and the way you have done him is completely wrong first off if you dont like someones pm's after they have paid you give them the tracking number that you had promised and another thing for you to curse someone who has paid you over 2 weeks ago and still has no tracking number is beyond classless i hope he gives you a negative itrader and if you respond to be with some bs or any cursing i will make it public that you screwed someone."

I reply with a pretty calm response and I get a reply.
"First off i have bought on here and sold alot everytime i sell they pay when i ship it i got on the computer that night and give them the tracking number that weve aggreed on it would only take two seconds and yes ive shipped to canada before i know sometimes it takes a little longer but after 17 days i would be presuring for my tracking number also
IVE READ EVERY PM and believe that if you would have just kept your word and not been so rude this would have never happen you did agree to give a tracking number and didnt if you would have guess how many pms you would have got thats correct ZERO and you act like this dude is wrong for asking for what you promised if you dont have nothing to hide whats the tracking nymber "

I openly admit I did NOT give the buyer the tracking number, I really had enough of the messages and constant harassment of the buyer. Yes, I had the tracking number. Maybe I left the receipt in my car? On my yacht? In my private jet? Maybe I wrote my cell number on it when Paris Hilton was hitting on me? For whatever reason, I just assured the buyer that the item had shipped and it should be there soon. I put the tracking number in through paypal and yet I STILL get continued messages.

"Dude your a joke and yes im calling you a liar how can he track the package with no tracking number you did tell him you would give him one you are Bad Buissness and even though you have screwed this guy and not done what you told him you would i will still make sure he sends the cue back or pays you because here on az people try to look out for each other until people like you just call people names and try and belittle people how many times did gator joe call you a jack off or anything do you forget he is the buyer and sent payment already and still 17 days later has nothing not even a tracking number You have no problem typing three paragraphs but i guess your numbers on the keyboard are broke it would be muck easier to give the number and the arguement would be over im sure the reason your not giving the tracking number is because you delayed the shipping by about two weeks "

The 'friend' is now calling me a liar, I BEG him to start a thread saying how I ripped this guy off and how I am a bad person. Since I rip people off on here all the time, especially in the action forum. :)

"before he stopped payment you started calling him names and being rude but niether here nor there the truth comes out you didnt shipp the cue right away as stated and for some reason you think its ok to belittle people ill make sure he pays or sends the cue back i might even buy the cue to help the situation im just trying to help but as the day ends you DID NOT DO AS STATED thanks and he will give u your money back or your cue "

The friend is now trying to justify the excessive harassment. I called the buyer and I quote "a pain in the ass" after the 100th message he sent me. I confirm with the 'friend' that I delayed the shipping to make sure there wasnt a chargeback (outlined above) and again ask him to start a thread saying I ripped his 'buddy' off.

"Your a joke and if i started a thread it Would State BIGGEST ****ING LOSER IN CANADA and actually the more you talk to me like im retarted i could give a **** less if he pays you back or anything maybe you should find the nearest bridge and jump ive tried to help the both of you and resolve the issue and you just continue to be an idiot you are a poison to az i hope sometime in the near future you realize all this could have been avoided if your ass would have just done what you promissed and didnt try and decieve someone "

Above is the last message I got from the 'friend'
#1 I never promised to give the tracking number
#2 The tracking number protects ME and its for ME, thats why I paid $30 for shipping


So my question is, what is the sellers responsibility to a buyer?
Do I HAVE to give the buyer the tracking number? Ive bought a great number of things from the board and never once asked for it.
Do I HAVE to put up with constant harassment?
Do I HAVE to continue communication after the item has shipped when there is nothing I can do from my end to speed or delay shipment?
Do I HAVE to put up with 'friends' messaging me even though Ive already shipped the item?

Please help!
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you do have to give the tracking number. it's not just for your protection. it's also to let the buyer know at least something has been shipped. he won't know if he's received what he paid for or burned until the packaged shows, but at least he has something saying an item is coming. i have always been given and have given out the tracking number when buying and selling. the harrassing emails are a little bit your own fault. if you had given him the tracking number i would feel more sympathy towards you because once he can track the package himself there's nothing more for you to say until he receives the item. but since you didn't give that to him all he can do is contact you. and that kind of answers your third qustion. if you had given him that info and he still busted your balls then it's on him for being a jackass. as far as talking to his friend goes, i say one message to hi saying it's none of his business and you are done.
 
jrt30004 said:
you do have to give the tracking number. it's not just for your protection. it's also to let the buyer know at least something has been shipped. he won't know if he's received what he paid for or burned until the packaged shows, but at least he has something saying an item is coming. i have always been given and have given out the tracking number when buying and selling. the harrassing emails are a little bit your own fault. if you had given him the tracking number i would feel more sympathy towards you because once he can track the package himself there's nothing more for you to say until he receives the item. but since you didn't give that to him all he can do is contact you. and that kind of answers your third qustion. if you had given him that info and he still busted your balls then it's on him for being a jackass. as far as talking to his friend goes, i say one message to hi saying it's none of his business and you are done.
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Is there an unwritten rule saying the seller MUST provide the tracking number?

If there is, Ive never gotten a tracking number for a single item Ive bought on here.

Thank you for your post.
 
D_Lewis said:
Thanks for this message but you are not accurate with the info.

I posted the tracking info after the paypal claim had been entered, not before.

Thanks for all the PMs with support from friends of the board also.
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I misunderstood, but the holder of the account used has filed a fraudulent claim, because they had to lie when disputing the transaction. If they had told the truth and informed Paypal that the transaction was for a friend and the seller was never asked to deliver the package to their address, the claim would have been denied.
 
D_Lewis said:
Is there an unwritten rule saying the seller MUST provide the tracking number?

If there is, Ive never gotten a tracking number for a single item Ive bought on here.

Thank you for your post.
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yeah pretty much there is an unwritten rule. i have never dealt with anyone, here or on ebay that didn't provide that info. sorry but it makes you look just as shady as the guy you sold to. and if you're not asking for tracking numbers that's your business but if i bought something from you and you refused to give me one i'd hope and pray the item showed up and if it did i thank god and never buy from you again. and if you bought something from me it'd be the first thing i pm'd you when i got home. like i said it makes the transaction look shady. the only people who refuse to provide that info are usually the ones trying to screw you. it's different but not much if i have bought form the same person more than once. even then - i don't really know any of these people and the pages of these forums are full of stories about how, "he seemed like such a nice guy i don't understand why he did this".
 
D_Lewis said:
If there is, Ive never gotten a tracking number for a single item Ive bought on here.
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I'm not sure if you are seeking positive affirmation on this thread but this statement shouldn't have anything to do with how you conduct yourself as a seller.


Hidy Ho <- keep thinking of "stupid is as stupid does ..." line from Forrest Gump
 
D_Lewis said:
Is there an unwritten rule saying the seller MUST provide the tracking number?

If there is, Ive never gotten a tracking number for a single item Ive bought on here.

Thank you for your post.
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yes there is, it's actually common sense. the tracking number is proof that u shipped it. u have a responsibility to the buyer to prove that u shipped it. simply saying that u did is not enough.

just like u didnt trust him enough to ship the cue immediately, he has no reason to trust u enough to just take ur word for it that it's shipped. u made it worse by not providing the tracking number when asked...that just makes the transaction fishy.

also consider that by ur own admission this is ur first sale so obviously the guy is a bit skittish about it.

please stop saying that u never got a tracking number for anything u bought on the board, that has nothing to do with anything. just cuz u didnt want one doesnt mean other people dont.
 
jrt30004 said:
yeah pretty much there is an unwritten rule. i have never dealt with anyone, here or on ebay that didn't provide that info. sorry but it makes you look just as shady as the guy you sold to. and if you're not asking for tracking numbers that's your business but if i bought something from you and you refused to give me one i'd hope and pray the item showed up and if it did i thank god and never buy from you again. and if you bought something from me it'd be the first thing i pm'd you when i got home. like i said it makes the transaction look shady. the only people who refuse to provide that info are usually the ones trying to screw you. it's different but not much if i have bought form the same person more than once. even then - i don't really know any of these people and the pages of these forums are full of stories about how, "he seemed like such a nice guy i don't understand why he did this".
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Curious, in the three iTrader feedbacks that you have so far. How many of those sellers sent you the tracking number after you paid? Totally curious.

Ive bought from probably the biggest seller on here, paid and waited. There was a tracking number on the package, I didnt ask for it and they didnt bother sending it. Its called trust.

Hidy Ho said:
I'm not sure if you are seeking positive affirmation on this thread but this statement shouldn't have anything to do with how you conduct yourself as a seller.


Hidy Ho <- keep thinking of "stupid is as stupid does ..." line from Forrest Gump
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Just stating a fact, not looking for aything. I trusted my sellers enough to wait for my item to arrive, I didnt send them countless private messages, I didnt get my friends to harass them also and when my item didnt arrive within less than two weeks on an international shipment, I didnt file a claim with paypal.
 
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