A Typical Blown Runout

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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ok, this is a good example of what i talk about when i mess up racks that i feel like i should finish off in my sleep.

when i got to this shot my mind was going a mile a minute. i was tellling myself things like:
1) dont overcut this shot!
2) but dont undercut it either!
3) dont draw it back, and end up at Point B, that makes position on the '9' Ball a lot harder.
4) just get it over to Point A, thats the best spot
5) watch your speed, dont hit it too hard.
6) pocket speed is the way to go, in case you miss slightly, it will fall in.
7) dont hit it too low, thats not what you want.
etc, etc, etc.

so, what do i do? i undercut the '7' Ball, and it hits the short rail. missed it by a mile. i just kneeled down and rest my head on the table, just couldnt believe i would hose that up. woe is me.

DCP

CueTable Help

 
DrCue'sProtege said:
ok, this is a good example of what i talk about when i mess up racks that i feel like i should finish off in my sleep.

when i got to this shot my mind was going a mile a minute. i was tellling myself things like:
1) dont overcut this shot!
2) but dont undercut it either!
3) dont draw it back, and end up at Point B, that makes position on the '9' Ball a lot harder.
4) just get it over to Point A, thats the best spot
5) watch your speed, dont hit it too hard.
6) pocket speed is the way to go, in case you miss slightly, it will fall in.
7) dont hit it too low, thats not what you want.
etc, etc, etc.

so, what do i do? i undercut the '7' Ball, and it hits the short rail. missed it by a mile. i just kneeled down and rest my head on the table, just couldnt believe i would hose that up. woe is me.
Click to expand...

DCP

CueTable Help




Looks like you're overthinking that shot. From the way you've diagrammed it, it looks like you've got plenty of angle to go forward, yet leave space for the 8-ball. Unless the cue-ball and 7-ball are nearly straight in - I don't see a problem here. The cue ball and the 7-ball are almost inline with the same diamonds. That's plenty of angle. Also, the 8-ball is still mostly within the points of the side-pocket.

Hit it about medium with a little follow. I think it is OK to get a little further down table than you show, because that makes getting on the 9-ball easier. Look at where I put A & B. Even those, which would be a soft follow shot, or a true centerball (not stop shot), still get you in good shape for the 8-ball. The postion of A lets you just hit centerball and roll downtable nicely for the 9. Position B might require you hit a little low to widen the angle so you can play for the long-side of the 9. You don't want to do any sort of follow into the rail for a play to the shorter side of the 9-ball.
 
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If you tell yourself, "don't do A" you increase your chances of doing exactly A. If you imagine what you want clearly you can have it, but if you imagine what you don't want, you will get that.
 
longhair said:
If you tell yourself, "don't do A" you increase your chances of doing exactly A. If you imagine what you want clearly you can have it, but if you imagine what you don't want, you will get that.
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What he said, exactly. Also, play your position to the middle of the longest good line. Don't bunt balls just cause you can (pocket speed). Hit them like you will get better every shot. Play every shot for perfection, but allow for as much error on position as possible by playing to the middle of the line.

unknownpro
 
longhair said:
If you tell yourself, "don't do A" you increase your chances of doing exactly A. If you imagine what you want clearly you can have it, but if you imagine what you don't want, you will get that.
Click to expand...

I agree with longhair. Never tell your self "Don't do X or Y" or sure as the skies are blue, x or y will happen. Instead, if your shot was laid out just like you have it diagramed, I just think "1 speed stop shot on this 7 leaves me a perfect angle to get from the 8 to the 9 and I'm out." Then I go through my preshot routine, shooting routine and execute. I promise you, from that position, If I said to myself, "Bob, don't hit this shot too hard or you'll scratch in the opposite side", then 50% of the time, I'll send the CB into the other side pocket like it's on a string!

Later,
Bob
 
Stop trying to play position to points and play to the larger triangles for position. Position triangles are one of the secrets to 9-ball success. Not only is it easier to play to them, you also don't get mentally bent out of shape like you would if you missed the precise point method. You can spend your mental effort on making the shot, not so much on precise cue ball play.
 
The position triangle for this shot is something like this:
Get anywhere inside this triangle (marked A) and you're out.
See what I mean?

START(
%G]5H5%H\2F0%Iq9P5%Pg4H8%QZ4Q7%R]1_1%Ua1Z3%V\7F7%W_5I0%Xf0H8
%]Q0Z7%^[9F7%eB4a4
)END
 
TX Poolnut said:
Stop trying to play position to points and play to the larger triangles for position. Position triangles are one of the secrets to 9-ball success. Not only is it easier to play to them, you also don't get mentally bent out of shape like you would if you missed the precise point method. You can spend your mental effort on making the shot, not so much on precise cue ball play.
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree. Keep striving for precise pinpoint position. Top players pick a spot and put the cueball there. If you just keep thinking "general area", you will never get good.
 
jjinfla said:
Did you ever think of taking up tennis? Or maybe checkers.
Click to expand...

Try something even less complicated with much less of a required thought process.

Something like Posting on the Internet....
 
cuetechasaurus said:
I strongly disagree. Keep striving for precise pinpoint position. Top players pick a spot and put the cueball there. If you just keep thinking "general area", you will never get good.
Click to expand...

Thats not true. Alot of players, Buddy Hall is one, who tends to play line poistion. Meaning play the angles in such a way that the cueball approaches the line of the shot, instead of coming across the line where you have to have the cueball stop as precisely. If the cueball is approaching the object ball on the line, your speed can be a little off and you still have the shot (it may just be longer or shorter etc). Sigel talked about going 2 rails instead of 1 on the last couple of IPT airings, this is what he was referring to (line positioning, not relative to the wei table in this post). If 1 rail forces you to have to stop whitey on a dime, the margin of error goes down as your stress level goes up. However, if you bring the cueball 2 rails where it is traveling on the line of the shot (cueball-objectball-pocket) then you have a huge margin of error.
As far as the above shot goes....... DrCue.... you overthink alot of shots. If you are missing them, practice them until you can make it blindfolded..... then quit thinking about it. When the shot comes up in a game, you can tell yourself..... hey I shot that 200 times, I own that shot. Then settle in and pocket it with position. We all have bad days and good days, but dragging yourself through the mental mud over a pretty minor error will not help you long term.
Have you ever went to a pool hall and watched some guy off on a far table setting the same shot up and pocketing it over and over again? Theres a reason behind it. :D
Chuck
 
I don't mean to be a jerk,but...for a year or two Dcp constantly whines and moans about blown racks, if he insulted Gerda, messed up another runout, put holes in your wall etc etc. Isn't it enough to have your own table, in your nice house and get to play and practice at your leasure? Practice hard and love the game for what it is my friend. I drive 45 miles one way to practice by myself twice a week and gamble one day a week. I love to hit balls and play as good as I can when I blow a run out it's because I took my eye off the ball or took the wrong shot. But I never cry or put holes in the wall, I just practice more. Hell you didn't beleive what MarK Wilson told you to do. Man just play is all I'm saying. Maybe you're as good as you're going to get, Hell maybe I am. Just love the game and be thankfull for your opportunities.

Andy
 
IMO you need to work on your pre shot routine the physical approach may be ok (I've never seen you shoot) but it seems to me that you have to many thoughts (negative ones) when you're about to shoot. Work everything out before getting down on your shot, visualize what you need to do and decide how so that when you address the cue ball the only thing in your mind is executing the shot.
 
RiverCity said:
DrCue.... you overthink alot of shots. If you are missing them, practice them until you can make it blindfolded..... then quit thinking about it. When the shot comes up in a game, you can tell yourself..... hey I shot that 200 times, I own that shot. Then settle in and pocket it with position. We all have bad days and good days, but dragging yourself through the mental mud over a pretty minor error will not help you long term.
Have you ever went to a pool hall and watched some guy off on a far table setting the same shot up and pocketing it over and over again? Theres a reason behind it. :D
Chuck
Click to expand...
Chuck is right on target here. You definitely need to get a handle on your thought processes. Take a deep breath first. Try to stay focused on the task that needs to be accomplished. Relax your grip on the cue and black out the negative thoughts. Take your stroke with confidence and with the attitude that you're giving it 100%.

If you should miss the shot, then you've just identified a potential weakness. Practice it until you have it down pat.
 
RiverCity said:
Thats not true. Alot of players, Buddy Hall is one, who tends to play line poistion. Meaning play the angles in such a way that the cueball approaches the line of the shot, instead of coming across the line where you have to have the cueball stop as precisely.
Click to expand...

All top players do that. That's not what I was talking about. Many times there are situations where you have to cross the line, etc. But that doesn't matter. The point was that playing a line towards the next ball or not, top players can judge almost exactly where the cueball will stop.
 
cuetechasaurus said:
I strongly disagree. Keep striving for precise pinpoint position. Top players pick a spot and put the cueball there. If you just keep thinking "general area", you will never get good.
Click to expand...

Position triangles are only the first step to getting to the point where you can play to a precise point. By immediately expecting pro level pool from yourself, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment. I agree that you shouldn't just keep thinking "general area."

Perhaps the right answer is somewhere in between. In the above shot, I believe he spent too much effort on other things besides "MAKE THE BALL." When you're on the eight like the above shot. There is absolutely no reason to try to get pinpoint on any spot on the table. 95 percent of your effort should be potting the OB in the shot described. Certainly more effort is required on other shots concerning precise position play. This just wasn't one of those times.

I don't believe top players always pick a precise spot to play to; although they all can. Sometimes perfect cue ball play is outweighed by perfect OB play. I regularly practice with a top player and I speak from experience playing this guy. Position triangles allow for more of your mental effort to be applied where it is needed most. I think it would be wise to start by playing to wide position triangles and then, gradually, expect better from yourself. I agree with your last statement though. You can't expect to get better if you are complacent by keeping the "general area" as a landing strip.
 
Not a blown runout.

DrCue'sProtege said:
ok, this is a good example of what i talk about when i mess up racks that i feel like i should finish off in my sleep.

CueTable Help

Click to expand...

This is not a blown runout. Once you understand the difference between blowing a runout and missing a shot, you might leave half of these posts under lock.

Fred
 
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