ABIA - what do you think?
- Thread starter Dartman
- Start date
Of the 24 actual "certified" mechanics listed on their site - 18 of them are on this panel of 30 so far.
One (Georgia) name in particular stands out that is not listed as "certified" yet is on the panel.
ABIA selection of panel members
Panel Members ~ Members of the ABIA panel will provide direction and decision for the ABIA in the future. All important decisions and the initiation of important projects will be decided by the following panel members.
Members of this important panel
This list is in no particular order of importance
Brett Buchannan - Georgia
Lynn Miller - Arizona
Dennis Jaburek - Illinois
Gavin Miller - Texas
Rick Sandri - Illinois
Ron Schneider - Pennsylvania
Anthony Costonzo 3rd - Rhode Island
Steven Bradshaw - Arizona
David Cravens - Florida
Scott Long - Virginia
Dale Bauman - Nevada
Jason Beck - Arizona
Julie Blocker - Florida
JP Gillespie - South Carolina
Mark Gregory - Georgia
Pat O'Donnell - New Jersey
Jessie Viloria - Arizona
Bob De Turk - Pennsylvania
Jeff Black - Membership coordinator - ABIA management
About the panel The panel members are tasked with the decisions of the ABIA that are of the most important nature. New projects that the ABIA may be starting and other important decisions are made by the members of the panel. To get an accurate voice of the installer voice the ABIA is selecting 30 members to sit on the panel to assist in making decisions for the organization.
One (Georgia) name in particular stands out that is not listed as "certified" yet is on the panel.
ABIA selection of panel members
Panel Members ~ Members of the ABIA panel will provide direction and decision for the ABIA in the future. All important decisions and the initiation of important projects will be decided by the following panel members.
Members of this important panel
This list is in no particular order of importance
Brett Buchannan - Georgia
Lynn Miller - Arizona
Dennis Jaburek - Illinois
Gavin Miller - Texas
Rick Sandri - Illinois
Ron Schneider - Pennsylvania
Anthony Costonzo 3rd - Rhode Island
Steven Bradshaw - Arizona
David Cravens - Florida
Scott Long - Virginia
Dale Bauman - Nevada
Jason Beck - Arizona
Julie Blocker - Florida
JP Gillespie - South Carolina
Mark Gregory - Georgia
Pat O'Donnell - New Jersey
Jessie Viloria - Arizona
Bob De Turk - Pennsylvania
Jeff Black - Membership coordinator - ABIA management
About the panel The panel members are tasked with the decisions of the ABIA that are of the most important nature. New projects that the ABIA may be starting and other important decisions are made by the members of the panel. To get an accurate voice of the installer voice the ABIA is selecting 30 members to sit on the panel to assist in making decisions for the organization.
Re: Mr Bond
Great post, Mr. Bond. Rep to you. I still think it's funny that these guys claim their goal is to remain independent without depending on others for their success. Contradicts charging for the "discounts" they strive to bring us.
And I thought initially one of the major goals was to establish the certification program. Yet there still is no certifying going on. Only checking that we're insured. And we have to pay for them to check that.
Oh, and to quote your e-mail, "The ABIA does not answer to a board of directors". Didn't they send out an e-mail this week recruiting a board of directors? Do you think they will answer to a board then, or do you think that board gives them a scapegoat? You don't like this latest decision? Blame the board.
And yes, the secrecy is getting old. I guess I may be different than a lot of other people, but if I get blasted for something, that apparently means I've either been misunderstood or I have an area that needs improvement. I don't hide from it. You would think instead of remaining anonymous, they would come out and provide objections to the "attacks" they've recieved. If they received these "attacks", why would they not want to address the persons/organizations making the attacks? Are they not confident enough in their organization to stand up for themselves?
Oh, and speaking of attacks, did anyone else notice they cited the BCA as viewing the ABIA's formation as a threat to them, yet in the next e-mail, said if you want information about the ABIA, contact the BCA?????
Great post, Mr. Bond. Rep to you. I still think it's funny that these guys claim their goal is to remain independent without depending on others for their success. Contradicts charging for the "discounts" they strive to bring us.
And I thought initially one of the major goals was to establish the certification program. Yet there still is no certifying going on. Only checking that we're insured. And we have to pay for them to check that.
Oh, and to quote your e-mail, "The ABIA does not answer to a board of directors". Didn't they send out an e-mail this week recruiting a board of directors? Do you think they will answer to a board then, or do you think that board gives them a scapegoat? You don't like this latest decision? Blame the board.
And yes, the secrecy is getting old. I guess I may be different than a lot of other people, but if I get blasted for something, that apparently means I've either been misunderstood or I have an area that needs improvement. I don't hide from it. You would think instead of remaining anonymous, they would come out and provide objections to the "attacks" they've recieved. If they received these "attacks", why would they not want to address the persons/organizations making the attacks? Are they not confident enough in their organization to stand up for themselves?
Oh, and speaking of attacks, did anyone else notice they cited the BCA as viewing the ABIA's formation as a threat to them, yet in the next e-mail, said if you want information about the ABIA, contact the BCA?????
For the record:
So that nobody gets the wrong message, I'm not attempting to personally attack any one person, or their credibility. That's the irony of this whole situation, we wouldn't know who to attack, even if we wanted to.
And that's my point precisely. You can't just wake up one day and decide that you're going to be the nation's authority on billiard table installations - any more than you can wake up and call yourself the Queen of England.
The vast array of construction and engineering methods used to produce billiard and pool tables, and to maintain them, should not and cannot be reduced to something as simple as moving a couch. To be any kind of an authority on the subject will no doubt require tremendous amounts of knowledge, training, and most of all, proven practical skills.
When the ABIA has proven to me that this caliber of individual is responsible for the issuance of their certifications, I will gladly give them all the respect they deserve.
So that nobody gets the wrong message, I'm not attempting to personally attack any one person, or their credibility. That's the irony of this whole situation, we wouldn't know who to attack, even if we wanted to.
And that's my point precisely. You can't just wake up one day and decide that you're going to be the nation's authority on billiard table installations - any more than you can wake up and call yourself the Queen of England.
The vast array of construction and engineering methods used to produce billiard and pool tables, and to maintain them, should not and cannot be reduced to something as simple as moving a couch. To be any kind of an authority on the subject will no doubt require tremendous amounts of knowledge, training, and most of all, proven practical skills.
When the ABIA has proven to me that this caliber of individual is responsible for the issuance of their certifications, I will gladly give them all the respect they deserve.
Last edited:
I'm appalled at the arrogance of whomever wrote that email.
I'm not sure if anyone else here may be interested in adding their name, but I plan on sending a nice letter to the Secretary of State for Oregon. These jokers are clearly breaking some laws...
They are portraying themselves as a non-profit organization. They even go so far as to ask for donations. They call it an "all volunteer" organization. This is clearly untrue. I'm no rocket scientist but I've done a little investigating in my day and you can find almost anything online - including state business registrations - including that of the ABIA. Take a gander. ABIA is a domestic LLC, i.e. a for-profit organization. By the way, Install Gurus and IC Billiard Cloth are apparently doing business without the benefit of a business license from the state of Oregon.
By the way, don't rack your brain asking who the hell "Joe Alexander" is, he's not an officer of the organization, he's a "registered agent". I googled the address listed and it comes up to their accountant.
The man behind all this seems to be none other than Jeff Black, the man behind used-pooltable.com. Jeff has registered more than a few businesses in Oregon. Do a google search for "Jeff Black Pool Table Services". It shows up in the list, but when you click on it, "Jeff Black" is now "Chris Marsh".
ABIA is clearly looking for some legal trouble. The website definitely infers that they provide certification based on industry standards. Sooner or later one of these "certified" installers is going to royally screw up a table and someone will be facing some liability issues.
There are also some ambiguous questions about unfair business practices that would fall under federal guidelines, since they are obviously doing business across state lines. Federal law prohibits deceptive trade practices. It seems to me that the IC Billiard Cloth scam would fall under that heading.
I'm not sure if anyone else here may be interested in adding their name, but I plan on sending a nice letter to the Secretary of State for Oregon. These jokers are clearly breaking some laws...
They are portraying themselves as a non-profit organization. They even go so far as to ask for donations. They call it an "all volunteer" organization. This is clearly untrue. I'm no rocket scientist but I've done a little investigating in my day and you can find almost anything online - including state business registrations - including that of the ABIA. Take a gander. ABIA is a domestic LLC, i.e. a for-profit organization. By the way, Install Gurus and IC Billiard Cloth are apparently doing business without the benefit of a business license from the state of Oregon.
By the way, don't rack your brain asking who the hell "Joe Alexander" is, he's not an officer of the organization, he's a "registered agent". I googled the address listed and it comes up to their accountant.
The man behind all this seems to be none other than Jeff Black, the man behind used-pooltable.com. Jeff has registered more than a few businesses in Oregon. Do a google search for "Jeff Black Pool Table Services". It shows up in the list, but when you click on it, "Jeff Black" is now "Chris Marsh".
ABIA is clearly looking for some legal trouble. The website definitely infers that they provide certification based on industry standards. Sooner or later one of these "certified" installers is going to royally screw up a table and someone will be facing some liability issues.
There are also some ambiguous questions about unfair business practices that would fall under federal guidelines, since they are obviously doing business across state lines. Federal law prohibits deceptive trade practices. It seems to me that the IC Billiard Cloth scam would fall under that heading.
Last edited:
My 2 cents; If I were on that list, I'd seriously consider disassociating myself from that organization. (which I did long ago) Good concept....total wreck of a presentation!
Thanks for posting your letter Mr. Bond! Reps to ya!
Thanks for posting your letter Mr. Bond! Reps to ya!
The ABIA Board/Panel?
Maybe you guys in bold below can add some legitimacy to the organization by pressing for a real certification process.
Members of this important panel
This list is in no particular order of importance
Brett Buchannan - Georgia
Lynn Miller - Arizona
Dennis Jaburek - Illinois
Gavin Miller - Texas
Rick Sandri - Illinois
Ron Schneider - Pennsylvania
Anthony Costonzo 3rd - Rhode Island
Steven Bradshaw - Arizona
David Cravens - Florida
Scott Long - Virginia
Dale Bauman - Nevada
Jason Beck - Arizona
Julie Blocker - Florida
JP Gillespie - South Carolina
Mark Gregory - Georgia
Pat O'Donnell - New Jersey
Jessie Viloria - Arizona
Bob De Turk - Pennsylvania
Josh Ebert - Ohio
John Burns - Maryland
Bob Hill - Virginia
Jeff Black - Membership coordinator - ABIA management
About the panel The panel members are tasked with the decisions of the ABIA that are of the most important nature. New projects that the ABIA may be starting and other important decisions are made by the members of the panel. To get an accurate voice of the installer voice the ABIA is selecting 30 members to sit on the panel to assist in making decisions for the organization.
Maybe you guys in bold below can add some legitimacy to the organization by pressing for a real certification process.
Members of this important panel
This list is in no particular order of importance
Brett Buchannan - Georgia
Lynn Miller - Arizona
Dennis Jaburek - Illinois
Gavin Miller - Texas
Rick Sandri - Illinois
Ron Schneider - Pennsylvania
Anthony Costonzo 3rd - Rhode Island
Steven Bradshaw - Arizona
David Cravens - Florida
Scott Long - Virginia
Dale Bauman - Nevada
Jason Beck - Arizona
Julie Blocker - Florida
JP Gillespie - South Carolina
Mark Gregory - Georgia
Pat O'Donnell - New Jersey
Jessie Viloria - Arizona
Bob De Turk - Pennsylvania
Josh Ebert - Ohio
John Burns - Maryland
Bob Hill - Virginia
Jeff Black - Membership coordinator - ABIA management
About the panel The panel members are tasked with the decisions of the ABIA that are of the most important nature. New projects that the ABIA may be starting and other important decisions are made by the members of the panel. To get an accurate voice of the installer voice the ABIA is selecting 30 members to sit on the panel to assist in making decisions for the organization.
I do consider myself an open-minded person, and after a long talk with Pat and a lot of thought last night, I believe that the ABIA's INTENTIONS are good. Wether or not the ideas can be put into action, we'll see, but I have a TON of respect for the same guys you pointed out and think that if there is anyone out there that can get something rolling, these guys are AMONG the ones that can. I'm hoping that our ideas and influence will be taken seriously. The good mechanics that seek to raise the expectations of the industry have long needed something/someone to separate them from every other jackwagon that can afford a phone book ad. I'm eager to see if something can get organized so we can make something happen.
We are pressing for a real certification process. We have done this from the beginning. I asked many of the same questions as Mr. Bond. I understand the questions. I understand the concerns. I have yet to see an Idea set in motion that works. This requires more than a voice and far more than a forum. This forum is nothing more than a mob. I am not directing this at dartman. I am calling everybody out. Post some ideas. Pick your point and add a positive, effective and possible solution. This forum is a very powerful tool if used correctly. Lets get a plan. What is your reply to the ABIA. How would you go about organizing the mechanics. Submit a plan or take your ball and go home. I have worked with many mechanics on this forum, I have talked with others. There are some talented individuals wasting time investigating an organization they do not believe in. Why? Change it if you don't like it. I like the idea of being on that list. I might be able to do something with. I didn't enter into this blindly. I can't! I love being a mechanic. But at the end of the day it pays the bills and feeds my kids. I don't bet on the first horse that looks fast, but I know one thing for certain. If the ABIA is the only horse in the race it can't loose.
So what's the plan?
Last edited:
I was approached before that wagon was even assembled. I didn't jump on it. Yes this forum CAN BE powerful. We have come together on this forum and what has it amounted to? Do not measure our potential, measure what has ACTUALLY been accomplished UP TO TODAY! Name one tangible Quality action that has been taken. I know a few higher ups in billiards myself. All the hear is silence. I ask again what has been done. All I see on this forum is talk about what the other guy is doing. Look at what the ABIA is doing. I'm not picking a fight ,go back and read it for yourself. I go back and all I read are Good Ideas without action but I also see a lot of contradictions made by the author himself.
one more thing I would like to address. Jeff Black is a valuable person to know in this industry. You cannot un-ring a bell. Be careful and think about your own future before you throw the guy under a bus.
From the outside looking in, this forum has place much effort into discrediting and bringing down the ABIA. If you were a major company or group of any would you risk what you have built and subject it to this. The first thing this group is going to do is investigate. I am certain investigation and debate are healthy,however, openly,publicly airing your findings accompanied with your opinion are negative political B. S.
Lets sit around digging up dirt on the other guy. I see enough of that chit in D.C. For what? Come up with a solution. Answer the problem. When are we going to start that thread. This is all knitting needle conversation and gossip. I am posting a new thread. How are we going to organize?
On the contrary - a lot of people looked forward to the umbrella of a national organization and certification process geared to give visibility to the buying public in selecting a certified vs. non-certified mechanic for table work. Checking into a business license and insurance is not my idea of certifying that someone actually knows how to do table work.
I recall that there was a survey asking people what criteria should be used for certification. There was also a call out for people to be "certifiers". This was the whole gist of ABIA and then Black got sidetracked with his $39 cloth gimmick which opened the door for others to check out what the ABIA really was - who ran it - what were the credentials, etc. There was no transparency or credibility and people "rightfully" questioned the organization. Call Mike Serra and ask him why he cancelled his ABIA benefit offer.
Look at the published list of "certified" mechanics. Who certified them? Who watched as they recovered or assembled a table? What standards were used to grade the work? Is this the organization you want to associate your name with in its' present state?
That said lets just say they are treading water right now but there may be hope if guys like you and Pat can get ABIA back on track as an association of "real" certified table mechanics and not just a list of people that submitted their information. Going beyond this you have to ask how and what ABIA plans to do to market this organization to the public (not just the trade) and drive table work to you (like he did with used-pooltables).
Below from their Facebook page.
Hard to believe they say "credibility" but this is the sort of stuff they're getting pinged on.
Abia Installers Billiard stores and Installers. Is your pool table company certified? Find out more and sign up to add even more credibility to your billiard business.
Hard to believe they say "credibility" but this is the sort of stuff they're getting pinged on.
Abia Installers Billiard stores and Installers. Is your pool table company certified? Find out more and sign up to add even more credibility to your billiard business.
all of the negative feedback that the ABIA has received here, has been a direct result of their own actions (or inaction). nobody on this forum is trying to "bring them down" and nobody here has a reason. what we have done is bring to light some very basic problems that obviously need to be addressed.
the ABIA website itself is their own worst enemy at this point, not the so-called 'daily attackers'. which begs the question; why do you suppose they are getting attacked at all?
its probably because the verbage used on their website is in bad taste; some of it doesnt make sense, some of it isnt even true, and some of it is probably aimed directly at the BCA:
Typically trade organizations are run by a group of powerful industry heads....
....the direction of the organization generally may not run in the benefit of it's members but in the benefit of it's board of directors....
......They offer weak benefits to members while advertising their businesses and taking full advantage of the privileges of their positions.
This is an example of a self serving political organization where the people on top continue to grow at the expense of it's members........
...self serving interests of larger suppliers or distributors
the new guys on the scene walk in and spit in the face of the biggest pool association in america, but then wonder why nobody wants to be friends?
and they need me to point this out? come on now, lets be realistic.
i hear what is being said about "making suggestions" or coming up with a plan, so here's my response to that:
sarcastic response:
if i had the time to sit here and type up an operations manual and P.R. policy for the ABIA, i would, because it wouldnt be all that hard actually. but i dont, so i wont. however, if you get 26 people to send me $99 each, i'll see if i can squeeze it in.
non sarcastic response:
the ABIA is not "my" organization. nor would it ever be in its current state.
as i have mentioned previously, when and if they prove themselves worthy of respect, i will gladly offer it. but until that time, it is not my, nor the consumers responsibility to try and "fix" whats wrong with the ABIA.
it is, however, my and the consumer's responsibility to make sure that our money is spent wisely, on qualified mechanix that do quality work. therefore, the ABIA, and all service companies should expect me, and the consumer to be constantly wary and vigilant when it comes to verifying who exactly we do business with and what their qualifications are.
in other words; if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, and your good name will speak for itself.
the ABIA website itself is their own worst enemy at this point, not the so-called 'daily attackers'. which begs the question; why do you suppose they are getting attacked at all?
its probably because the verbage used on their website is in bad taste; some of it doesnt make sense, some of it isnt even true, and some of it is probably aimed directly at the BCA:
Typically trade organizations are run by a group of powerful industry heads....
....the direction of the organization generally may not run in the benefit of it's members but in the benefit of it's board of directors....
......They offer weak benefits to members while advertising their businesses and taking full advantage of the privileges of their positions.
This is an example of a self serving political organization where the people on top continue to grow at the expense of it's members........
...self serving interests of larger suppliers or distributors
the new guys on the scene walk in and spit in the face of the biggest pool association in america, but then wonder why nobody wants to be friends?
and they need me to point this out? come on now, lets be realistic.
i hear what is being said about "making suggestions" or coming up with a plan, so here's my response to that:
sarcastic response:
if i had the time to sit here and type up an operations manual and P.R. policy for the ABIA, i would, because it wouldnt be all that hard actually. but i dont, so i wont. however, if you get 26 people to send me $99 each, i'll see if i can squeeze it in.
non sarcastic response:
the ABIA is not "my" organization. nor would it ever be in its current state.
as i have mentioned previously, when and if they prove themselves worthy of respect, i will gladly offer it. but until that time, it is not my, nor the consumers responsibility to try and "fix" whats wrong with the ABIA.
it is, however, my and the consumer's responsibility to make sure that our money is spent wisely, on qualified mechanix that do quality work. therefore, the ABIA, and all service companies should expect me, and the consumer to be constantly wary and vigilant when it comes to verifying who exactly we do business with and what their qualifications are.
in other words; if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, and your good name will speak for itself.
Nobody on this forum is trying to bring them down? Why do I suppose they are being attacked at all.
I know and spoke with people on this forum who were against the ABIA from the get go.
Your response merely proves my point. No positive solutions and all sarcasm. Could you write a manual? Lets hear it? How would you go about it? You are not a mechanic and you can pull this off? I guess you could just BS your way through it. That sounds so familiar?
How about an idea from you. In other words; if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.[/QUOTE]
Of course there are some very basic problems with the ABIA. Anything worth doing is difficult. This forum is a tough audience. The ABIA has some of the right people involved.
The ABIA is a work in progress. The only progress I have seen.
Have you checked out Brunswick or Any other companies. They have a nice website. It looks nice and inviting. The site constantly reminds you of their heritage. Then you purchase a table for anywhere from $1500 to $20,000 and up. Some hack shows up and installs it like it's a race. You call this company and they point the finger at the store. The store gets to grade the quality of it's own install. Nice! They will then tell you to pound sand. You will have to spend another $500 to $1000 for a mechanic to show up and repair the damage to your new table. Damage inflicted by the supposedly quality installer sent by the company. Where is your investigation on that? I see this s^&t all the time, day in day out. Year in year out. But hey it doesn't matter, they have a nice web site and a quality catalog. You can investigate the company and they are legit.
My customers don't need a mechanic. They need a hug a nice flyer and a user friendly website. While they are online and finish the literature, the pool table will level itself and the cloth will magically tighten.
I have been reading your posts about the ABIA and must say you seem to have an axe to grind for someone who claims not to be a mechanic or installer anymore. Have you checked out all the associations linked with billiards like you did the ABIA? The certification that is given is not for the knowlage of the mechanic (not yet, but soon) but to verify a company is a legit business. I compete with guys who have no insurance or tax id number. They steal work because they can afford to work cheaper without the added costs of operating a legit business. I have been a productive member of this forum for 4 + years. I personally know and have worked with many of the mechanics on here. I am not a talker. I get things done. Back in Dec. 09'. A group of us from the forum wrote up what we felt should be a minimum standard to be a certified installer. This is now in the hands of John Burns ( a well respected member here and in the industry) who has stepped up as the "head" of the group. The ABIA is young. Like anyone of us it will learn from it's mistakes and hopefully become better. I do know that the members of the panel will now be voteing for the direction in which the ABIA will go. A not for profit organization is first on the list of things I will be pushing for. Without that I will reconsider my stand. I am not attacking anyone but do not see the need for the FBI(Forum Bureau of Ivestigation) to scrutinize the ABIA on the forum without knowing everything and everyone involved. Put up or Shut up is the way I feel. Something has been started and with our help it can really become something good. My name is on the "list" and I am proud to say I am part of the ABIA and what it will be. Anyone have questions my phone number is in my signiture. Please feel free to call.
Last edited:
I have some questions for you. Rather than call you, I'll ask you here so that all forum members can have benefit of the answers:
1. Given the ABIA's Mission Statement (found below), why is the ABIA a for-profit organization? (it's listed as an LLC)
ABIA Website said:
2. Is it, or is it not true that the owner of ABIA (and yes, it has an owner as it is an LLC) and the owner of Install Gurus are one in the same?
3. Is it, or is it not true that the owner of ABIA and the owner of IC Billiard Cloth are one in the same?
4. Given that the only real certifications that ABIA currently offers is that of state business registration and insurance, do you think it is sound business practice for the ABIA to associate itself with two organizations that are not registered with the state where their business is located (IC Billiard Cloth and Install Gurus)?
5. Don't you think the "news" included HERE is deceptive in nature? Are we to believe that the "clients" (supposedly major pool table brands) of this "national billiard installation company" actually insisted that they use only "ABIA certified installers" when at the moment, no such animal exists?
Yes, I was one of the people against ABIA from jump street. Why? Well, because of this forum really. You see, I read on this forum at least three or four times a week. I know that on this forum are some of the busiest, best and most knowledgeable mechanics in the country. AND NONE OF THEM WERE INVOLVED, NOR ASKED TO BE INVOLVED, NOR EVEN AWARE OF THE CREATION OF THE ABIA.
Contrary to Quick Eddie I was all for the ABIA from the start. Applied, got my number and all that not that I really needed it since I do very few tables these days mostly just for people I know. I recall a convo with Pat a long time ago to the point of developing a list of qualifications that could become the standards for certifying mechanics. Never really followed up on any of it and then the emails and press releases from ABIA started and a lot of what I read made me start questioning the organization.
Starting with Jeff Black - who is he and what is his billiards expertise beyond starting used-pooltable.com back around 2003 and the subsequent websites that have been mentioned. Consider the fact that one website feeds his others. Then along comes ABIA, another Black website. If you're in the trade you can pay to advertise on used-pooltable and with the advent of ABIA you can also pay him to list you as certified - currently meaning some obvious nobody checked that you have a business license and insurance and listed your name on a webpage. Whoop-dee-frickin-do.
Think about this from the standpoint of a consumer in need of table work. He reads "American Billiard Installers Association" and frequent references to "certified". What picture could this conjure up in the consumers mind? A mechanic that's a member of a national association and listed as certified which must mean the guy knows what he's doing? Little does the consumer know that the listed mechanic has not demonstrated any ability to do proper pool table work. At a minimum the consumer is mislead with little recourse if the quality of the work performed is poor.
When you give it just a little bit of thought just exactly what has Jeff Black done over the past year to promote tested/qualified mechanics to the consumer? Give it time you say? How long does it take to test someone? Black has certainly received input and recommendations from some of the qualified mechanics here so why the delay in moving the organization forward towards what it was intended to be?
Like I said earlier - there are a few of you that can get ABIA back on track if you want to spend the time to do it And if Black backs your plan. His name really doesn't mean much but when those in the trade see names like Pat and Mark it lends a stamp of credibility that may drive others to be part of an organization that can claim members with at least a minimum qualification to do table work. Merely verifying business info is bs - any consumer can do that locally and verify a mechanic or company is legit.
Starting with Jeff Black - who is he and what is his billiards expertise beyond starting used-pooltable.com back around 2003 and the subsequent websites that have been mentioned. Consider the fact that one website feeds his others. Then along comes ABIA, another Black website. If you're in the trade you can pay to advertise on used-pooltable and with the advent of ABIA you can also pay him to list you as certified - currently meaning some obvious nobody checked that you have a business license and insurance and listed your name on a webpage. Whoop-dee-frickin-do.
Think about this from the standpoint of a consumer in need of table work. He reads "American Billiard Installers Association" and frequent references to "certified". What picture could this conjure up in the consumers mind? A mechanic that's a member of a national association and listed as certified which must mean the guy knows what he's doing? Little does the consumer know that the listed mechanic has not demonstrated any ability to do proper pool table work. At a minimum the consumer is mislead with little recourse if the quality of the work performed is poor.
When you give it just a little bit of thought just exactly what has Jeff Black done over the past year to promote tested/qualified mechanics to the consumer? Give it time you say? How long does it take to test someone? Black has certainly received input and recommendations from some of the qualified mechanics here so why the delay in moving the organization forward towards what it was intended to be?
Like I said earlier - there are a few of you that can get ABIA back on track if you want to spend the time to do it And if Black backs your plan. His name really doesn't mean much but when those in the trade see names like Pat and Mark it lends a stamp of credibility that may drive others to be part of an organization that can claim members with at least a minimum qualification to do table work. Merely verifying business info is bs - any consumer can do that locally and verify a mechanic or company is legit.