About how often do Pros run a 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9+ pack?

arsenius

arsenius

Nothing ever registers...
Silver Member
I was just wondering, how often would you expect to see an "average" Pro, maybe a guy that everyone hasn't heard of, and a "top" pro, like the guys we've alllllllllll heard of, would string racks together.

Something like (based on nothing at all!)

2 Pack- Almost every match, more than once
3-4 Pack- Every other match
5-7 Pack- Once a week
7-9- Once a month
10+- Couple times in a year
13+- Once or twice in a career

Is there a number that the "normal" pro doesn't reach, that only the most elite will? Is there a point where the top pro really starts to pull away from the average, or is he more consistent across the board?

I know this is all speculative, since there are no numbers kept on this thing.
I also know that run out ability is not the only thing that makes someone a great player. I'm just kind of wondering how special it is when you see an n pack run on Accustats or on TV (when it's not alternate breaks).

Is there a number where a pro player will start feeling like "this is a special/unusual event for me"? Different for everyone I'm sure.
 
Great question. Or should I say, "questions."

Wish I could give you an answer.

Looking forward to the answers from the experts on here.
 
I've run an 8 pack once. A 6 pack several times. I am not a top level pro, but I do know that a 8,9, or 10 pack doesn't happen as often as you have described - with even the TOP players. I'm not saying that it never happens, I am just saying that IMO, it is extremely rare for anybody to get up and break and run 10+.
 
arsenius said:
I was just wondering, how often would you expect to see an "average" Pro, maybe a guy that everyone hasn't heard of, and a "top" pro, like the guys we've alllllllllll heard of, would string racks together.

Something like (based on nothing at all!)

2 Pack- Almost every match, more than once
3-4 Pack- Every other match
5-7 Pack- Once a week
7-9- Once a month
10+- Couple times in a year
13+- Once or twice in a career

Is there a number that the "normal" pro doesn't reach, that only the most elite will? Is there a point where the top pro really starts to pull away from the average, or is he more consistent across the board?

I know this is all speculative, since there are no numbers kept on this thing.
I also know that run out ability is not the only thing that makes someone a great player. I'm just kind of wondering how special it is when you see an n pack run on Accustats or on TV (when it's not alternate breaks).

Is there a number where a pro player will start feeling like "this is a special/unusual event for me"? Different for everyone I'm sure.
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When I was still out there, I had the pleasure of watching Buddy run 10 once, but saw him run 3-4 a few times. This was in Shreveport when he was in his hayday and beating everyone. I never saw him get beat there and don't remember hearing of him getting beat there.

Years later, I ran around with a guy {now deceased} Al Hogue from Denver who was a great player, but not a very good gambler run 9 twice and 7 a few times.

While running with Danny Medina, back in the 80's and early 90"s I saw him run a race to 13 set out from the flip. It was an incredible display and one I'll never forget. It was on a very tough table too. I thinnk it was against Jeff Carter. I have seen Danny with many different runs of 5-6-7-8 and they alll seemed to end with either coming up dry on the break, or missing an incredibly easy shot.

This is a little off topic, but the one that still sticks in my mind was one Al Hogue pulled off. While playing Ronnie Allen golf at the Family Fun Center in Denver, he ran 11 holes consecutively, to get even, JACKED UP. That one I'll never forget as it sent Ronnie to the rack.

Back in the days, there were so many more ahead sets than what we see today causing lots of marathon matches. During the course someone would eventually catch onto the table and figure out the break and put a string together. It just isn't as comon today. It surprised me it hasn't happened in these races to 100.
 
Blackjack said:
I've run an 8 pack once. A 6 pack several times. I am not a top level pro, but I do know that a 8,9, or 10 pack doesn't happen as often as you have described - with even the TOP players. I'm not saying that it never happens, I am just saying that IMO, it is extremely rare for anybody to get up and break and run 10+.
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Tap Tap Tap.

What he said. Just buy a bunch of Accu-Stat tapes and watch them. You rarely see 3 packs run (on tape, I have well over a hundred in my library). It happens but not to, to often.

I think that Pat Flemming from Accu-Stats could give you a good answer, thats what the company was started for any way, to colect stats. They realized that instead of sitting there and taking all the note it would be easier to tape them and review them later (great idea). Then people started to ask if they could get copies, now we have Accu-Stats :D. This is of course my version of what Pat told me will ordering one of my tapes (he is a great, I mean GREAT guy to talk with and do bussiness with, Love ya Pat, thanks).

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it:cool: .


Pete
 
Three to five racks is not uncommon. Six or more is. Johnny also ran 13 on Francisco for 10K once, the most I ever heard of.

No one ever strung more racks than Earl in tournaments. It was not uncommon for him to run five to seven racks in every match of a tournament back in the 80's and early 90's. His big game was a speed above the rest of the world back then.
 
Saw A local guy string up 7 to win a 10 a head set a month or so ago. Tony Elin could string some racks together.
 
Stringing racks

Well, with tapped-in balls and the wing ball going on every soft break the last two years has seen a bounty of strung racks in tournament play. Gomez won 23 or so games in a row this year at the WPC, and many of those were racks strung together. He had one run at another time of 11. Last year Alcano ran out at least once from the lag. This year Peach strung some nice ones together, I believe I remember an 8-pack.

Back in the old hit the rack hard days guys could string them as well but not as often. I know for a fact that I saw Nick Varner, Jim Rempe and Buddy Hall all win 11 games in a row. I know it was that number because when they got to 11 they would quit, smile and come shake my hand and wish me luck.

I could not count how many times I have seen Earl, Busty, Archer and Efren put together long strings. In the last fifteen years there are not many top pros like Daulton or Davenport or Parica, et al, that have not had streaks where you just could not get them off of the table. These guys are good, and they are mostly consistent with only a few obvious exceptions.
 
Blackjack said:
I've run an 8 pack once. A 6 pack several times. I am not a top level pro, but I do know that a 8,9, or 10 pack doesn't happen as often as you have described - with even the TOP players. I'm not saying that it never happens, I am just saying that IMO, it is extremely rare for anybody to get up and break and run 10+.
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Thanks Blackjack. I wasn't trying to give accurate numbers at all, just an example of how I would like the information presented. Sorry if I confused anyone by that.

The idea that 3-5 is common and 6+ is not, is interesting. I wouldn't have guessed 6 to be any kind of cutoff. I would have guessed higher. Of course that was just my idle guessing.

Just for the record, I figured this would be on 9 foot tables. I think I've heard of people running 20+ racks on a bar box on this site, if I remember correctly.

What got me thinking about this was that I watched Jasmin run 4 (a dry break +3 technically) last week at the DP Korean Pro tournament last week. That was the high run that I saw at the tournament, but I only got to watch for one day. But I thought it was pretty good. I've only seen two three packs and a four pack with my own eyes (not a video camera's).
 
What do you guys consider a 6 pack?


A. breaking and running 6 racks in a row, without ever missing a ball...
B. Winning 6 games in a row

The reason I ask is because i have always thought of it as running out from the break consecutive times....
And from reading some of the comments, it sounds like you accept winning 6 games in a row as a 6 pack
 
Six-Pack

I have always heard it defined as running six racks. My comments were meant to include long runs of wins that had strings of B&R's inside those runs of wins.
 
Home sick today so I decided to watch a little youtube for stats. Just finished Reyes and Deuel. They showed 13 racks with no break and runs. They both shot a .918 avg.
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
I have always heard it defined as running six racks. My comments were meant to include long runs of wins that had strings of B&R's inside those runs of wins.
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One time I saw Jerry Forsyth running with 6 racks in his hand... does that count? lol
 
Back in the day with big pocket gold crown tables, the pro's used to string multiple racks together from the break. However, with diamond tables and tighter pocket size and at some tournaments with rotating breaks, it has become very difficult for any professional to break and run multiple racks.

And how could anyone forget Johnny Archers 13 racks in a row against Bustamante in Toledo ohio back in the early 90's for the cash!!
 
Just watched reyes and schmidt. 15 games showed and only 3 break runs. no packs... Was all six in one hand or was he running ambidextrous.
 
Jason Robichaud said:
Just watched reyes and schmidt. 15 games showed and only 3 break runs. no packs... Was all six in one hand or was he running ambidextrous.
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All 6 in one hand - I think he had a drink in the other. Never spilled a drop.
:p
 
JustPlay said:
Back in the day with big pocket gold crown tables, the pro's used to string multiple racks together from the break. However, with diamond tables and tighter pocket size and at some tournaments with rotating breaks, it has become very difficult for any professional to break and run multiple racks.

And how could anyone forget Johnny Archers 13 racks in a row against Bustamante in Toledo ohio back in the early 90's for the cash!!
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Were Django Bustamante signed the table saying, "The winner!"? :D
 
A good way to measure might be to watch the color of money match, though there were a lot of dry breaks in that set.

I want to watch now and figure it out but ... dag, that's a lot of hours.

Some players might just be more streaky than others.
Ironman mentioned medina, he finished 7 balls in one rack then ran 8 more racks to tie the record in 92 (the record number of runouts in a WPA-sanctioned event). Highlights of the 8pack are on the accustats bloopers tape vol. 1.

Since that's the record and danny was the only other person at the time to tie it, 8 might be the magic number that separates the men from the really manly lumberjack men.

Seeing all this stuff makes me feel better that all I can do is the occasional 3-pack. My runs tend to end cuz of dry breaks, our tables don't believe in "wing ball".
 
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