Great post.
ABR with Jay Helfert and Johnny Archer
- Thread starter buckshotshoey
- Start date
Great post.
Here's a good explanation of how to make the wing ball in 9-ball. Basically, the wing ball caroms off the ball below it. But when racked, it's dead to several inches above the corner pocket. So to make it, you shoot from the side, transferring most of the energy to a chain of balls frozen to that carom ball below the wing ball, moving it slightly down table before the wing ball caroms off of it, into the corner.
The irony is that to make the shot, you just have to make sure certain chains of balls are frozen. And frozen is what the rack should be anyway, ideally. It's why making the wing ball has increased with the use of the Magic Rack.
So how is that cheating the rack? Some techniques require creating little gaps, which is gaffing the rack and therefore cheating. But making sure balls are frozen? Bah. You're not a rack mechanic if you want the balls frozen. Every bar league player tries to freeze the balls to each other in the rack - it's just the definition of a good rack.
It takes about 30 seconds to understand this, and yet Johnny Archer, probably the most experienced pool professional active today, claims he doesn't understand it? Come on. If what he says is true then he's just being too stubborn to try to learn it. And to complain that others do understand it and so are basically cheaters is ridiculous. Does he complain about people who understand hitting the right side of a frozen ball combo, or spin transfer on bank shots, or a hundred other pieces of info about pool shots, and he's too proud to learn those things?
Fine, require three balls past the head string or the center to add some unpredictability to the other balls, or move the 9 to the spot or require breaking from the center to try to prevent the wing ball from going in at all. But it's not cheating to try to understand the rack and get the balls frozen. It's just willful ignorance not to want to understand it.
The irony is that to make the shot, you just have to make sure certain chains of balls are frozen. And frozen is what the rack should be anyway, ideally. It's why making the wing ball has increased with the use of the Magic Rack.
So how is that cheating the rack? Some techniques require creating little gaps, which is gaffing the rack and therefore cheating. But making sure balls are frozen? Bah. You're not a rack mechanic if you want the balls frozen. Every bar league player tries to freeze the balls to each other in the rack - it's just the definition of a good rack.
It takes about 30 seconds to understand this, and yet Johnny Archer, probably the most experienced pool professional active today, claims he doesn't understand it? Come on. If what he says is true then he's just being too stubborn to try to learn it. And to complain that others do understand it and so are basically cheaters is ridiculous. Does he complain about people who understand hitting the right side of a frozen ball combo, or spin transfer on bank shots, or a hundred other pieces of info about pool shots, and he's too proud to learn those things?
Fine, require three balls past the head string or the center to add some unpredictability to the other balls, or move the 9 to the spot or require breaking from the center to try to prevent the wing ball from going in at all. But it's not cheating to try to understand the rack and get the balls frozen. It's just willful ignorance not to want to understand it.
The arguing and fighting aspects bother me the most! I enjoy the game. This makes the game "less" enjoyable!Their match took forever, arguing about the rack. It takes one to know one, right?
The pro's can't make a living off the game. So, why remove the fun from what you are doing? The break issues are worse than digging your own ditch!
Kd
Because both players played under the same rules, and those rules allowed the break skill to play a part in the game. Whoever possesed that skill better had more chances to win, and that was fair.
In formats where it doesn't matter if you have a break skill or not, everybody is brought down to the same level, the one that can break with the one that can't. That is unfair.
And that is all well and good, IF the balls are racked the same way, every time.
Unfortunately, that is not the case. Between irregularities in equipment, and players manipulating the rack beyond making all the balls being frozen, its not JUST about who breakers better.
Yes, that is why the game has to go back to rack for the opponent (when no referee available), especially with today's means (membranes) it's even easier to do it than before.
I think what Johnny was saying was he understands what gaps in certain areas of the rack do for the break. What he was against was purposely (strategically if you want to call it that) placing gaps in the rack to affect the outcome of the break. Thats what he said he would never do.
What I, and many others want to know, is how do you recognize when someone is trying to do this to you?
What I, and many others want to know, is how do you recognize when someone is trying to do this to you?
Rack Stats
Break results....action/reaction tell me allot about my opponent.
Years ago at the Open, Scott Smith would post table locations for your match well before you played on that table. What I did and it was effective. I watched a complete match on the table I was to play on....wrote down ball patterns and breaking results (never heard of anyone doing that at the time). Having this information definitely helped me give my opponent a good tight rack, but it also was more difficult for my opponent to make a ball on the break. No two balls used are ever the exact same diameter, and thus rack patterns definitely made a difference, and it was not illegal at the time, and I did not feel like I was cheating or doing something wrong. When your sitting in your seat, and packages keep coming it's Very difficult to not try something legal when your in your seat, and only racking. The foot spot has quite a bit of area to rack the one ball up/down and still be legal. Wonder if there is a rule....how big or small the foot spot must be.
Break results....action/reaction tell me allot about my opponent.
Years ago at the Open, Scott Smith would post table locations for your match well before you played on that table. What I did and it was effective. I watched a complete match on the table I was to play on....wrote down ball patterns and breaking results (never heard of anyone doing that at the time). Having this information definitely helped me give my opponent a good tight rack, but it also was more difficult for my opponent to make a ball on the break. No two balls used are ever the exact same diameter, and thus rack patterns definitely made a difference, and it was not illegal at the time, and I did not feel like I was cheating or doing something wrong. When your sitting in your seat, and packages keep coming it's Very difficult to not try something legal when your in your seat, and only racking. The foot spot has quite a bit of area to rack the one ball up/down and still be legal. Wonder if there is a rule....how big or small the foot spot must be.
That an interesting point of view. Never thought of ball diameter and pattern racking together.
Not quite what I'm looking for but something to consider. I would think the tolerances on todays "matched sets" are a little tighter then years past. Maybe not though. What I am looking for is a vid of someone purposely manipulating a rack against their opponent. Or in rack your own, purposely manipulating a rack to their own advantage. Or is this a big secret that some don't want let out of the bag of tricks?
Not quite what I'm looking for but something to consider. I would think the tolerances on todays "matched sets" are a little tighter then years past. Maybe not though. What I am looking for is a vid of someone purposely manipulating a rack against their opponent. Or in rack your own, purposely manipulating a rack to their own advantage. Or is this a big secret that some don't want let out of the bag of tricks?
Well here's one thing. If a full hit from the break box sends the wing ball high of the corner pocket because of how it kisses off the ball behind it all you have to do is tilt the rack a little so the kiss lines up more toward the corner. After that a full hit from the box will pocket the wing ball.