Advantage to Performance Shafts?

[Keystone87]

Hey guys, I will be needing a new shaft in the future for my viking and was considering a predator 314-2. Was wondering if people have really experienced more consistency and added spin on draw and english or just a superior performance in any other way. Thanks for your time, Sorry if this is a dead topic on here I'm new..

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Hey guys, I will be needing a new shaft in the future for my viking and was considering a predator 314-2. Was wondering if people have really experienced more consistency and added spin on draw and english or just a superior performance in any other way. Thanks for your time, Sorry if this is a dead topic on here I'm new..

It's just a "low deflection" shaft, meaning it won't deflect the cue ball offline with sidespin quite as much as non-low-deflection shafts will. It won't add spin of any kind - that's a myth.

pj
chgo

 

[erriep]

like pj wrote, it's just a low deflection shaft.

changing your shaft will change your "confort" . That's an important detail . If you like your new 314-2 better than your current play shaft , then it's better for you, and that's the most important. The opposite effect can happend too. After all, it's more a matter of confort & confidence.

want more spin, more performances ? work your technic.
training, training, training. clinics, clinics, clinics. then training, training, training, clinics, clinics, clinics, then training, training, training.... your stance, your bridge, your stroke, your aiming, your concentration ...

 

[Maniac]

Hey guys, I will be needing a new shaft in the future for my viking and was considering a predator 314-2. Was wondering if people have really experienced more consistency and added spin on draw and english or just a superior performance in any other way. Thanks for your time, Sorry if this is a dead topic on here I'm new..

Since you state that you will be needing a shaft in the future anyways, why NOT go ahead and try a 314-2? You'll probably like it (although some people do not). If you don't like it you can always sell it and recoup most of your money (if it stays in excellent condition).

Maniac

 

[scsuxci]

Hey guys, I will be needing a new shaft in the future for my viking and was considering a predator 314-2. Was wondering if people have really experienced more consistency and added spin on draw and english or just a superior performance in any other way. Thanks for your time, Sorry if this is a dead topic on here I'm new..

There is absolutely no benefit to a LD shaft unless its suits your style of play
along with you willing to take the time and effort to learn the difference
and adapt to it,without the shaft driving you crazy.Goodluck

 

[Patrick Johnson]

There is absolutely no benefit to a LD shaft unless its suits your style of play

Low deflection can be a benefit - it can make it easier to aim with sidespin because it needs a smaller aiming adjustment. The only reason there's any question is that if you prefer to make the aiming adjustment by pivoting at the bridge to apply sidespin ("back hand" english), then a higher deflection shaft might make that easier.

pj
chgo

 

[KRJ]

Low deflection can be a benefit - it can make it easier to aim with sidespin because it needs a smaller aiming adjustment. The only reason there's any question is that if you prefer to make the aiming adjustment by pivoting at the bridge to apply sidespin ("back hand" english), then a higher deflection shaft might make that easier.

pj
chgo

pj and I disagree with one another 100% of the time in NPR, and I mean 100% of the time,,, but this is a true statement, and I can't agree enough. I would mention you should take a look at OB shafts or Tiger shafts as well.....

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

shafts

I prefer solid maple shafts . old groth maple , bowling ally maple shafts
snow white maple.

doesnt need to be sliced, diced, cored, bored, stuffed, glued, packed with cotton or balsa wood or silicone. doesnt need to be pie-ed shaped or wedges or squares. I dont need special ferrule and a hollow sound comming from my shaft.

I like it round straight and solid . With a solid feed back with no vibration or weird sounds.

Just old fashion I guess

happy hunting and I hope you find what you are looking for.

MMike

 

[Patrick Johnson]

pj and I disagree with one another 100% of the time in NPR

I only disagree when you're wrong - that's only 100% of the time so far...

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

For what's it's worth, I picked up a 314 CAT around March of this year. The shaft had been 'juiced', sanded down. I have been playing with 'spin' for 46 years & this shaft definitely applied more spin with less effort. In fact, the spin to 'deflection'/squirt ratio was more than what I wanted to deal with from a subconscious re-training perspective for long shots, so I sold it. I then purchased slightly used OB Classic & McD i2 shafts. They are fine & I like both very much. However, neither one puts as much easily produced spin on the ball as that 'juiced' 314 CAT, at least not from my perception.

The scientist will disagree, but if a LD shaft is deflecting more than a standard shaft in the downward direction when apllying draw, I feel that that is the reason that there is a difinite perception, for me, that they put more spin per foward movement on the ball than a regular shaft. They hit with more of a 'swiping' strike. The difference may be small, but it is a difference that can be 'felt'.

Raymond Floyd can feel the difference of one(1) extra layer of tape under a golf grip. How thick is one(1) layer of tape even when multiplied by 3.14? John Havlachek (spelling?) can sense the goal being 1/2 inch too low in warm up.

I know what the physics says, but if the parameters are different, then the results should be different. Some will say, it is, they delfect more & cause less cue ball squirt.

Yes but does it stop there? By deflecting more they cause a different affect on the cue ball. I shot a cut shot with the object ball about one(1) ball off of the long rail & about 1/4 diamond out from the corner pocket with the cue ball near the diagonal pocket. When I shot the shot with that juiced 314 CAT, I did so with hard draw expecting the cue ball to carom into the long rail with draw spin. Instead, it drew sraight down the long rail and scratched into the corner pocket. I was shocked & could not believe my eyes so I asked my opponent who was standing looking straight down that line if the cue ball had made contact with the rail & he said, 'No... & I can't believe it'. I have never done that in 45 years of playing with regular deflection shafts.

Take this for what it's worth, but keep in mind that I have no motive or interest in your ultimate decision. I'm simply telling you the truth from my experience, perception, & perspective.

Best Regards,

 

[JoeW]

I have an expensive cue ($2k+) and yet play with a Predator Z shaft. In ten years I just can't get that expensive shaft with the nifty ivory ferrule to play as well as the Predator shaft.

I suspect that much of it comes down to what you learned with and your preferences over the years. Some people learned to play with the older shafts and they know how to compensate for the deficiencies. For them the older shafts are therefore “better.” However, there is no denying the science of it as evidenced by studies of the differences between shafts. A few comparisons of your own will probably lead you to a decision. For me the extra money for the Predator Z shaft has been well worth it. I did not take up playing pool until I was 45 years old and that may have something to do with it.

I think that if you learn to play with the newer shafts you have a simpler game with fewer complications.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

The advantage of a performance shaft is it's performance, which is solely dictated by the performer. In other words, it's only as good as your are. Or, as bad.
Welcome to the forum. This is a good place to learn about pocket billiards and related equipment.
Pay no attention to the petty squabbles that are occurring at the moment. They are like tides at the seashore. Every now and then a couple of turds from a passing cruise ship will wash up and stink the place up a bit, but then eventually fade away. :smile:

 

[dr_dave]

Hey guys, I will be needing a new shaft in the future for my viking and was considering a predator 314-2. Was wondering if people have really experienced more consistency and added spin on draw and english or just a superior performance in any other way. Thanks for your time, Sorry if this is a dead topic on here I'm new..

Low-deflection (LD) shafts have both advantages and disadvantages. They certainly don't directly help you get more spin. For more info and supporting resources, see:

advantages of LD shafts
disadvantages of LD shafts
getting more spin with an LD shaft​

Regards,
Dave

 

[Keystone87]

Wow, cant believe you responded on my thread Dave super cool. Watched videos of yours before with much interest and attention, but had never read your faq section. Thanks so much for directing me there learned a lot and found even more than what was expected. Now I must review every corner of your website = )

 

[Keystone87]

Performance

For what's it's worth, I picked up a 314 CAT around March of this year. The shaft had been 'juiced', sanded down. I have been playing with 'spin' for 46 years & this shaft definitely applied more spin with less effort. In fact, the spin to 'deflection'/squirt ratio was more than what I wanted to deal with from a subconscious re-training perspective for long shots, so I sold it. I then purchased slightly used OB Classic & McD i2 shafts. They are fine & I like both very much. However, neither one puts as much easily produced spin on the ball as that 'juiced' 314 CAT, at least not from my perception.

The scientist will disagree, but if a LD shaft is deflecting more than a standard shaft in the downward direction when apllying draw, I feel that that is the reason that there is a difinite perception, for me, that they put more spin per foward movement on the ball than a regular shaft. They hit with more of a 'swiping' strike. The difference may be small, but it is a difference that can be 'felt'.

Raymond Floyd can feel the difference of one(1) extra layer of tape under a golf grip. How thick is one(1) layer of tape even when multiplied by 3.14? John Havlachek (spelling?) can sense the goal being 1/2 inch too low in warm up.

I know what the physics says, but if the parameters are different, then the results should be different. Some will say, it is, they delfect more & cause less cue ball squirt.

Yes but does it stop there? By deflecting more they cause a different affect on the cue ball. I shot a cut shot with the object ball about one(1) ball off of the long rail & about 1/4 diamond out from the corner pocket with the cue ball near the diagonal pocket. When I shot the shot with that juiced 314 CAT, I did so with hard draw expecting the cue ball to carom into the long rail with draw spin. Instead, it drew sraight down the long rail and scratched into the corner pocket. I was shocked & could not believe my eyes so I asked my opponent who was standing looking straight down that line if the cue ball had made contact with the rail & he said, 'No... & I can't believe it'. I have never done that in 45 years of playing with regular deflection shafts.

Take this for what it's worth, but keep in mind that I have no motive or interest in your ultimate decision. I'm simply telling you the truth from my experience, perception, & perspective.

Best Regards,

So in that story are you saying that was more draw than what you have ever experienced before? sounds like the draw spin took to the felt more and there by had less curve resulting in not hitting the rail if i understand correctly. Thanks for your post you helped me out with my first question on here about shaft diameters.

 

[scsuxci]

Low deflection can be a benefit - it can make it easier to aim with sidespin because it needs a smaller aiming adjustment. The only reason there's any question is that if you prefer to make the aiming adjustment by pivoting at the bridge to apply sidespin ("back hand" english), then a higher deflection shaft might make that easier.

pj
chgo

It can make it easier if your willing to take he learning curve.
I personally love the old Predators but I also know guys like Jeff Robson
who won the Canadian Amateur 9ball Championships last year and the
Juniors the year before.
He can play with anything but prefers his schon shaft over LD shafts,cause
he likes to work for his results.
Easier doesn't always mean better,thats why I say,it depends on the
persons style.
Not everbody suits a LD shaft.It might sound silly but I've also heard players that said
a LD shaft makes them lazy cause there mind set is everything now
should be that much easier.

 

[arps]

the amount of spin varies on a lot of factors:

1. stroke and bridging hand
2. quality of tip and chalk that you use
3. the way you "hit" the ball & the follow-through
4. quality of table cloth and rails

if you practice while trying out different amounts/kinds of these factors, you'd be able to figure out the situations where you could produce more/lesser spin.

LD shafts would amount very little as a factor in creating more spin. but i suggest that you try it out, and if it gives you a better feel and makes your playing more comfortable, then you should consider getting one.

(my first post here, btw. hey guys. )

 

[SplicedPoints]

Have recently have a change of heart regarding LD shafts.
I have 314s matched to my playing cues (all of them).

I am beginning to lean more and more towards traditional maple due to the fact that they just feel better striking the CB.

Although there's a massive difference between pre-cat 314 and current 314. I have one that was made 10yrs ago (matched to SW) and one that was made 2 years ago (matched to PFD). The older one feels a lot more solid and firm. Not sure if the butt has anything to do with it. I have another 314 matched to my SW coming in December. I can test it then.

 

[arps]

The amount of spin only depends on three things: Where you hit the ball, how fast the tip is moving and the amount of friction between the tip and the ball.

Stroke and bridge are only about delivering the tip consistently.

The cloth will have an effect on what the spin does and how long it lasts.

Follow through has no effect on spin.

dld

thanks for further elaborating.

 

[TheThaiger]

It's just a "low deflection" shaft, meaning it won't deflect the cue ball offline with sidespin quite as much as non-low-deflection shafts will. It won't add spin of any kind - that's a myth.

pj
chgo

Then how come I get FAR more draw with my predators shafts than I do with my other shafts?