advantages of heavy cues

Thefonz likes them fat or thin

I'm not so much concerned about weight as I am about balance. Light or heavy, i only care about how well the cue goes through the ball, how stable the shaft and tip feel through contact, and the length of contact I can feel with the ob. That being said, I lean towards heavier cues with +4oz shafts due to slow table conditions
 
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the kidd said:
Weight times velocity squared! = force
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Right...but to get the square of velocity working for you, you have to overcome relatively more inertia as weight increases.

The most obvious benefit of a heavier cue is when its butt is applied (with the assistance of gravity not present in a horizontal stroke) to the top of the skull of someone who welches on a bet.

(-:
 
SUPERSTAR said:
In terms of straight stroke...

If you have a pendulum type of stroke, a heavier cue does all the work for you and you basically let your arm drop and you stroke straight.

With a lighter cue, there is the possibility that muscle tightness in your arm (due to whayever reason) might cause you to pull the cue one way or the other, and prevent you from stroking straight due to some hitch.

If you have muscle tightness that might affect your stroke, the heavier cues weight, "pulls through" and doesn't let muscle fatigue or tightness affect your stroke to the same degree that it might with a lighter cue.

This does not apply to chicken wings, sidearms, wrist undercurl cradles, or shoulder pumps (think Mike Davis), only to pendulum strokes.
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So what you're saying is that a heavier cue can in fact to a certain degree help with some of technique problems? I think if you're pulling the cue offline with a 18-19oz cue even very slightly, the same would happen with a 28oz. Can't see how extra weight itself would make one shoot straighter. Perhaps only if one convinces himself that he shoots straighter with a heavier cue, then I suppose he will.
 
A couple of us older players, and a real good one or two, discussed this issue before. As we get older it seems we prefer a little heavier cue.
We believe that it does create a certain degree of consistency because the smallest of pressure does not make it deviate very much. With age we tend to lose that fine touch on some shots. The heavier cue also makes the cue ball move (force) to side with less stroke. It keeps more withing the margin of error. Also the extra weight of the cue helps it go through the ball to a complete finish, whereas we now tend to shorten our backstroke and follow through.

Young players, it makes no difference. But you will get older.
 
Fwiw

This "weight vs. speed" arguement drives me crazee sometimes. :speechless:

We need to get a few things straight first though.
A little bit of physics : The PROPER formula needs to be applied here.
Einstein's E=MC^2 formula does not apply to a cueball breaking onna slate table. That formula was discovered for colliding objects that have kinetic energy. (Energy of their own source either latent or active such as anything radioactive) That said:

The PROPER formula for colliding two inert (no energy of their own) objects has been around for hundreds of years. (Think Isaac Newton).
The simple said formula is F=MA (not squared)
Force = Mass * Acceleration

What confuses people here is acceleration: once a terminal velocity is met, acceleration is constant (at its peak) and no longer contributes to the force equation. Think of dropping a small ball-bearing and a bowling ball......
If you dropped each from the top of a 5 or 6 story building; the bowling ball will hit first. WHY? The bowling ball still has greater acceleration than the ball-bearing. this will happen until terminal velocity is met, which won't happen until they are dropped from a much greater height (yes, in a vacuum)
(theres a formula for that as well its D= 1/2 AT^2,V(1)T , or -9.8Meters per second squared.)

We (us pool players) will never see that breaking a rack, but the illusion is that the speed contributes exponentially to the force applied on the cueball. This is simply not so. Acceleration is gradual and as it nears its peak,its contribution diminishes greatly.

*******************Here's the bottom line*************************
(Of course I am only talking about breaking racks here!)

It's whatever you can hit with the most speed AND mass ACCURATELY, that will deliver the most force to the ball.

Onna similar note, has anyone ever heard of a thing called momentum??

:rolleyes: :idea2: :poke:

Hint: Think SVB,Corey Duell

PS.
I know i'm going to get some responses from this ,but i'm just not in the mood to type gobs of text over this,..... which is why I titled this post FWIW
 
predator said:
So what you're saying is that a heavier cue can in fact to a certain degree help with some of technique problems? I think if you're pulling the cue offline with a 18-19oz cue even very slightly, the same would happen with a 28oz. Can't see how extra weight itself would make one shoot straighter. Perhaps only if one convinces himself that he shoots straighter with a heavier cue, then I suppose he will.
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With a pendulum stroke where your arm is just basically dropping through the stroke motion?
Absolutely.

If you have one of those types of strokes, you should experiment with different weights and see for yourself.

Heavier cue swings straighter.

If you don't have one of those types of strokes, most likely, you will be making your arm tired much quicker with a heavier cue because you aren't just allowing your arm to drop, but instead, using all sorts of extra accessory muscles in your stroke.
 
light cues make me "force" the cue ball. a heavier cue just gives me a cleaner, solid hit.

could be that i've always played that way :duuno:

all my playing cues are 20.3 - 20.5. break cues a little heavier (f=m*a).

another reason i like pechauer cues - the weight is usually deeper in the butt than other cue brands. this allows a heavier weight while still maintaining a good balance point.

imo....
 
Granted,balance is probably the biggest of all cause I
have played with 20 ounce that felt 18 or so cause of the forward
balance.
I've also hit with a 18 that had a tent spike for a weight bolt in
the back end and it felt like a club.
 
I'm In The Minority It Looks Like.......

I'm surprised by the number of replies commenting about the favorability of playing with a heavy cue. I consider any cue 20 ozs or heavier to be a heavy cue. I own a custom Schon made in '85 that has a thicker butt and weighs 20.7 ozs probably because of the six jumbo size ivory bars Bob Runde added to the butt sleeve. My point is that cue was great to play with and I still have the cue but never play with it anymore.

Four years ago I started playing with lighter cues. I started with several Joss West cues made in the 70's, 80's & 90's. I bought and sold four (4)Bill Stroud cues and gradually wound up buying cues with lighter weight than my Schon. The cues were all in the mid-19 oz range up until the very last one I bought. The last Joss West I owned was 19.0 ozs and it had a ivory joint. I found that I really enjoyed playing with the ivory joint cue @ 19 ozs and actually started playing better. My cue ball control improved tremendously and so that's what got me interested in playing with lighter cues with ivory joints,

I'd like to buy one more ivory joint cue but it has to be a very special cue if I'm going to carry it. The cue has to be a top named cue-maker but unfortunately the ones I've seen and would like to have are all in the $ 4k price and even higher. But some day I'll get to score another big cue at a deal of a price. I know that's possible because since that Joss West cue. I now own and play with a Paul Mottey piloted ivory joint cue that weighs 18.1, 18.25 or 18.6 ozs depending on which original shaft is played with. And my Scruggs cue is a flat-faced ivory joint and the cue weighs 18.3 or 18.4 ozs depending on which shaft is used.

So what I've come to fancy is playing with lighter weight cues vs. heavy cues. I wish my Schon could play under 19 ozs but it's destined just to be a one of a kind Schon that stays in my collection. I'm afraid its playing days are over but the cue's history makes it too special to ever sell. Making this cue became Bob Runde's nightmare which I've written about before on the forum. My Mottey cue (10/91) is a dead ringer for the Mottey cue displayed in the 3rd Ed. Blue Book (top of pg. 545) which Paul made as a copy of Gus Szamboti's favorite personal playing cue that Gus made for himself. So rest assured that Mottey cue will remain in my collection and as far the Scruggs cue...well, it's just to pretty to sell and also plays incredibly to boot so it's a keeper as well.

I am hooked on playing with cues that are definitely not on the heavy side and I prefer cues under 19 ozs with ivory joints. The weight and overall feel makes the cue seems weightless in the stroke and hit and so everything translates into a different feel when the cue ball is stroked hard, medium or soft. All the players I know are suprised when they hit a few balls with either of those cues and comment that they love the feel of the hit as much as I do.

Based upon the posts I've read, I have to be in the minority when it comes to cue playing weight when I write that under 19 ozs is what I favor playing with.....and the cue has to have an ivory joint & ivory ferrules Cue-makers that I'd like to acquire next would be either Richard Black (early period), Ed Prewitt, Ernie Guitterez, Dennis Searing, or Joel Hercek cue. But those cues all tend to be in the category of rare champagne and my budget is more akin to plain ole Jack Daniels. But I'll keep looking since I was previously lucky enough to find my other two cues and so I'm keeping my fingers crossed while I continue to browse for my next cue purchase.
 
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I hate light cues. The reasoning is simple. If you practice your stroke with NO cue in hand, then it is impossible to bring your arm back and forth straight.

With a heavier cue you have something that your body can feel.

Now, to ease back a little on the heaviness, forward weighted cues solve this problem. You can still feel where the cue is just like a heavy cue, but because it is lighter you can draw the cueball easier.

With forward weighted cues, you have a centered weight that should feel like it is between your hand and cuetip, and IMO it is easier to guide.

Back weighted cues suck also (unless they are real heavy which I like half way). Moving that weight around is dorky to me - I have no scientific explanation, other that it is similar to swinging the arm with no cue in hand.
 
It steadys the stroke hand. That is the main advantage. If it is heavy and fron balanced it will also follow, draw and hit jacked up shots a little better for most players.
 
ChrisBanks said:
Just as with Earl, one minute he has a long cue, heavy cue, light cue, short cue, batting gloves, weights, earphones, artificial finger tips, who knows what else.
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Not many people on the world have as great of a stroke as Earl. He can get away with that crap :grin-square:
 
whitewolf said:
I hate light cues. The reasoning is simple. If you practice your stroke with NO cue in hand, then it is impossible to bring your arm back and forth straight.
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It's impossible to bring your arm back and forth straight without a cue in hand?

No it's not..if you hate light cues for your own reasons, that's subjective.
 
A heavier cue is better for making balls because it helps to stabilize your arm.
A lighter cue helps you get around the table better because you can produce more speed with a lighter cue.
 
I have always preferred a lighter cue, 15 to 17 ounces. I could always muscle a ball when needed, but hitting soft enough when required always seemed easier with a lighter cue. I still feel that way, but have started to wonder if I can still muscle a ball as acurately now that I am nearing 60 yrs. old. Maybe I need to add an ounce.

As someone pointed out earlier it needs to be the correct amount of mass that allows one to accerlerate to their top velocity that they can still deliver accurately.

Just my $0.02,
 
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