Advice from those who are NOT Table Mechanics

[Katipunan]

From a DIY to the Geniune Table Mechanics.

:embarrassed2:I myself feel responsible by sharing my personal opinions and experiences as a DIY. However, as some of us here have mentioned, I have seen many tables on popular poolrooms that are set up poorly. In addition, I am also trying to save a few dollars by doing it myself and having the privilege of accepting the challenge and being able to say this is my work (but frankly I would not want to do it all over again). If posting my work with the knowledge I have learned from this forum has offended the “real table mechanics,” I apologize. It is a free country, so I will share my experiences as a DIY, what I will not do is share technical knowledge because I believe that is exclusive to the “real table mechanics.”:sorry:

 

[QuickEdward]

This post is to Crash, BigK and anyone else who felt threatened by my introduction of this topic...

I'm by no means saying that anyone who isn't a mechanic should refrain from offering any advice or suggestions. It's a question of common sense. Many non-mechanics have offered up suggestions that if not 100% correct, are pretty damned close. And if my recollection is correct, you two have a proven track record of citing the fact that although you have a little knowledge of the equipment, you are not professional pool table techs.

I guess what I'm saying is that they shoe I threw out there doesn't fit you, so don't try it on.

As far as withholding information, I'm actually a little offended by the notion.

In my own opinion, this forum is NOT a way for ME to tell YOU how to do MY JOB (i.e. the way I feed my family) by typing a few sentences in a thread. This forum is a way for table owners and prospective table owners to learn about pool tables. Of course I'll help someone with a minor repair, or information about maintaining their table, or pointers on what to look for when buying a table. I'll identify antiques (when I'm able), and give opinions on materials. I do all of this free of charge out of the goodness of my heart, just like the other people on this forum that are dedicated to this line of work.

What I WON'T do is screw a fellow table mechanic out of a job in their area by giving advice on work that really should only be done by someone with experience. People on here are always complaining about the "hacks" in their area, but how many of those hacks started out by moving or recovering their own table? They get one under their belt, say "that ain't hard" and next thing you know they've got a pickup, a tool box and a craigslist ad... No experience, no education, no INSURANCE, and no ethics.

And as a side note, just because your post has 20 views and no responses doesn't mean it's been viewed by 20 mechanics.

 

[QuickEdward]

:embarrassed2:I myself feel responsible by sharing my personal opinions and experiences as a DIY. However, as some of us here have mentioned, I have seen many tables on popular poolrooms that are set up poorly. In addition, I am also trying to save a few dollars by doing it myself and having the privilege of accepting the challenge and being able to say this is my work (but frankly I would not want to do it all over again). If posting my work with the knowledge I have learned from this forum has offended the “real table mechanics,” I apologize. It is a free country, so I will share my experiences as a DIY, what I will not do is share technical knowledge because I believe that is exclusive to the “real table mechanics.”:sorry:

I have no problem with that, but as a matter of integrity you should always preface your advice with the disclaimer that you're a DIYer. After all this is the Ask a MECHANIC forum, not the ask a DIYer forum.

 

[A-1 billiards]

I can't help myself here but I feel a bit offended because I do offer up my opinion at times and feel I can help...... When I first got to this forum and asked a question or two I got few or no responses. At the time I thought it was the "Talk to a Mechanic but They Won't Talk to You Forum".....

I have a thread on here that gets plenty of views and why is that I am not a mechanic? Because it is detailed and offers a lot of information. I started that thread to share my experiences and benefit the people who are reading it. Perhaps it is not the best information and I am certainly not a mechanic but that thread was about my experience as a DIYer trying to fix my table. I think people can benefit from that and maybe they will decide I can do that too, or, maybe they will say I had better get a mechanic. For me I just didn't have the money to pay someone at the time. Also, to be quite honest I see a lot of messed up tables in my area that were done by mechanics so even if I had the money I wouldn't have hired anyone because I couldn't find anyone at that time I felt I could trust.

Information is what people are looking for. We are in the information age and there is a lot of it out there. In the OTLB VS RKC thread I commented on how this forum seems to be a bit disfunctional in that you guys seem to be afraid to put information out. I can see why as I have seen flaming a plenty here which certainly keeps people from wanting to expose themselves! I don't think you are ever going to stop someone from making dumb mistakes trying to do things themselves whether they can get information here or not. "This isn't the Ketucky Fried Chicken recipe here guys" (posted by an AZB mechanic). People will find the information whether or not it is correct and whether or not it is coming from you.

Perhaps, you guys should have a private forum but I believe this one is public. I will say that I have had similar experiences in the business I work in. The members of the REALTOR orginization were very opposed to having listings put onto the internet. Can you imagine people would have to come into the office just to look at the listings in the book! Yes, the information age changed our business and probably for the better as consumers come to us better informed about the market.

You have information and do not want to share that is fine I respect that. But, I as a consumer have done some business with members here because they do contribute and seem to be knowledgable. How am I to know otherwise?

Big K,

I've been to your home and seen your table, I would say it's the best DIY job I've ever seen. Your refinishing was superb, your level was spot on, your issues with the rail extensions was resolved perfectly and the overall quality of the installation would make many mechanics jealous.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the rebuilding of your table I enjoyed it very much. You certainly contributed at least as much as you have gained from the forum. Keep up the excellent posts!

Jay

 

[Crash]

Fair enough ... If I am offering an opinion, I will always preface my opinion with "I am not a mechanic". I have the utmost respect and admiration for the genuine professionals who love what they do for a living and are proud to share what they know (DIYers can tell who you are).

So, to you Mr. Pool Table guy ... this Buds for you!

 

[Dartman]

This is an older post but it hits home with what I think is the intention of this thread -
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=551920&postcount=16

 

[Bigkahuna]

BIGK! stop it! lol. You are not who any of this is directed to. I think we made you an honorary mechanic a while back. If you start giving bad advice we'll let you know.:grin-square:

Thanks John I do still remember that snowy or rainy day you talked with me for an hour just to get me started. You are the man! Peace

This post is to Crash, BigK and anyone else who felt threatened by my introduction of this topic...

I'm by no means saying that anyone who isn't a mechanic should refrain from offering any advice or suggestions. It's a question of common sense. Many non-mechanics have offered up suggestions that if not 100% correct, are pretty damned close. And if my recollection is correct, you two have a proven track record of citing the fact that although you have a little knowledge of the equipment, you are not professional pool table techs.

I guess what I'm saying is that they shoe I threw out there doesn't fit you, so don't try it on.

As far as withholding information, I'm actually a little offended by the notion.

Ok Quick I got yah.... Hey misinformation is everywhere even in your trade. I used to work in the auto repair field. I would bet half the mechanics or technicians you ask would tell you that setting a battery on the cement floor will drain the power out of it..... Just not true in fact just a wives tale.

Big K,

I've been to your home and seen your table, I would say it's the best DIY job I've ever seen. Your refinishing was superb, your level was spot on, your issues with the rail extensions was resolved perfectly and the overall quality of the installation would make many mechanics jealous.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the rebuilding of your table I enjoyed it very much. You certainly contributed at least as much as you have gained from the forum. Keep up the excellent posts!

Jay

Thanks Jay that is a HUGE compliment coming fom you. If your in the area again and ever just need a hand let me know. 207 229 4834

To the rest of you guys, I haven't been on AZB much lately to witness any dramatic threads or to know whats happening with your trade organization but wish you all well. You guys are all a great group doing many a pool table a world of good I am sure. May miles of felt be in your future!!!

 

[perfectpocketz]

This post is to Crash, BigK and anyone else who felt threatened by my introduction of this topic...

I'm by no means saying that anyone who isn't a mechanic should refrain from offering any advice or suggestions. It's a question of common sense. Many non-mechanics have offered up suggestions that if not 100% correct, are pretty damned close. And if my recollection is correct, you two have a proven track record of citing the fact that although you have a little knowledge of the equipment, you are not professional pool table techs.

I guess what I'm saying is that they shoe I threw out there doesn't fit you, so don't try it on.

As far as withholding information, I'm actually a little offended by the notion.

In my own opinion, this forum is NOT a way for ME to tell YOU how to do MY JOB (i.e. the way I feed my family) by typing a few sentences in a thread. This forum is a way for table owners and prospective table owners to learn about pool tables. Of course I'll help someone with a minor repair, or information about maintaining their table, or pointers on what to look for when buying a table. I'll identify antiques (when I'm able), and give opinions on materials. I do all of this free of charge out of the goodness of my heart, just like the other people on this forum that are dedicated to this line of work.

What I WON'T do is screw a fellow table mechanic out of a job in their area by giving advice on work that really should only be done by someone with experience. People on here are always complaining about the "hacks" in their area, but how many of those hacks started out by moving or recovering their own table? They get one under their belt, say "that ain't hard" and next thing you know they've got a pickup, a tool box and a craigslist ad... No experience, no education, no INSURANCE, and no ethics.

And as a side note, just because your post has 20 views and no responses doesn't mean it's been viewed by 20 mechanics.

GREAT POST

Mark Gregory

 

[Club Billiards]

Big K,

I've been to your home and seen your table, I would say it's the best DIY job I've ever seen. Your refinishing was superb, your level was spot on, your issues with the rail extensions was resolved perfectly and the overall quality of the installation would make many mechanics jealous.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the rebuilding of your table I enjoyed it very much. You certainly contributed at least as much as you have gained from the forum. Keep up the excellent posts!

Jay

The great thing about that thread is I think everyone from all levels of experience could relate to it. It showed the problems you encountered and reasonable solutions for them. I also can't help thinking that not too many people are going to have the level of ambition and patience you had on that table. Hell, that might even turn into an endorsement for the mechanics. Once people see what all goes in to it, it might be worth it just to hire someone to do it!

 

[LCCS]

Table

The great thing about that thread is I think everyone from all levels of experience could relate to it. It showed the problems you encountered and reasonable solutions for them. I also can't help thinking that not too many people are going to have the level of ambition and patience you had on that table. Hell, that might even turn into an endorsement for the mechanics. Once people see what all goes in to it, it might be worth it just to hire someone to do it!

That is why it is up to us to educate our customers on the phone before we give them a price. This is the truth. A lot of people do not realize what it takes to move or refelt a table. I built a set of subrails for a customer and when i got done the customer said. I never thought that it would take you that long. I had about 5 hours in them and when i got done he gave me a tip. People just do not realize what we have to do.

 

[johnqbs]

LOL, of course not, but I was using that as an example where even as a mechanic, I would tend to pass off certain questions to those more qualified than myself.

And to the guy who said "it's never wrong to help someone", I couldn't disagree more. Here's a completely plausible situation...

Joe Blow the table owner wants to move his 3.5 x 7 table himself to save money. He gets on this forum at 2AM and posts the question "What's the best way to move my bar sized table". Then at 8AM he checks and finds an answer from Jim Jackass saying "That's a small table, just get a few of your friends, take the legs off, turn it on end and carry it." Jim Jackass has seen this done with a bar-box, and so seeing "bar sized table" he thinks he's right. Joe Blow takes the advice and runs with it before any of the REAL mechanics on the site can correct him. Result? One of Joe Blow's friends breaks his leg. Joe Blow's table is shot to shit. Joe Blow's homeowner's insurance premiums go up, and now Joe Blow thinks the table mechanics on this forum are a bunch of assholes.

Oh, and Jim Jackass gets appointed by Obama to run OSHA.

point taken : thanks for letting me know your thought on this.
i do think it goes without saying,that it is fine to disagree with anyone.
as for my self more than fine. i respect all others point of view and or opinion no harm done on my end. in my orignal post i did say "just my point
of view" and what i said "it's never wrong to help someone" just to clear
up my statement that no one will take it the wrong way.if anyone gives
advice make sure its correct or keep it to yourself.from what i have noticed most questions asked they allready know the answer. they have been reading the forums and know who the real mechanics are.
they could allways ask for, EXAMPLE ONLY, rkc,911, dartman or quickEdward to reply.
from what i see there is no charge for advice .i think its take it or leave it.
i do reserve and have the right to help anyone with correct advice.
as for me, nuff said on this subject. take care and have a good day
john107: anderson sc

 

[Club Billiards]

That is why it is up to us to educate our customers on the phone before we give them a price. This is the truth. A lot of people do not realize what it takes to move or refelt a table. I built a set of subrails for a customer and when i got done the customer said. I never thought that it would take you that long. I had about 5 hours in them and when i got done he gave me a tip. People just do not realize what we have to do.

Nope. I've got a local accessory show room here that refers their service work to me. I won't let them give any quotes because they don't understand everything that goes into some jobs. They also have a bad habit of selling cloth locally without trying to sell the labor along with it. I'm just waiting for the day a guy makes a miscut on a bed cloth and wants them or me to take care of it.

 

[johnqbs]

LOL, of course not, but I was using that as an example where even as a mechanic, I would tend to pass off certain questions to those more qualified than myself.

And to the guy who said "it's never wrong to help someone", I couldn't disagree more. Here's a completely plausible situation...

Joe Blow the table owner wants to move his 3.5 x 7 table himself to save money. He gets on this forum at 2AM and posts the question "What's the best way to move my bar sized table". Then at 8AM he checks and finds an answer from Jim Jackass saying "That's a small table, just get a few of your friends, take the legs off, turn it on end and carry it." Jim Jackass has seen this done with a bar-box, and so seeing "bar sized table" he thinks he's right. Joe Blow takes the advice and runs with it before any of the REAL mechanics on the site can correct him. Result? One of Joe Blow's friends breaks his leg. Joe Blow's table is shot to shit. Joe Blow's homeowner's insurance premiums go up, and now Joe Blow thinks the table mechanics on this forum are a bunch of assholes.

Oh, and Jim Jackass gets appointed by Obama to run OSHA.

point taken : thanks for letting me know your thought on this, i do think
it goes without saying that it's fine to disagree with anyone, as for me
it is very fine , no harm done on my end. my original post said "just my point of view" let me clear up my statement "it's never wrong to help someone" provided you can give correct advice.from what i have noticed
most of the questions asked they allready know the answer.and not only that they know who the real mechanics are.if they have doubt about
advice they may get , ask for a real mechanic, if that would be the right
terminology, ask by name, EXAMPLE ONLY/ rkc,911,dartman,quickedward
and so on.it was said don't ask a mechanic call one.
however i do have and reserve the right to help anyone, with correct
advice. as for me nuff said on this subject. time wasted is lost time
take care and have a good day john107: anderson sc

 

[LCCS]

Agree

Nope. I've got a local accessory show room here that refers their service work to me. I won't let them give any quotes because they don't understand everything that goes into some jobs. They also have a bad habit of selling cloth locally without trying to sell the labor along with it. I'm just waiting for the day a guy makes a miscut on a bed cloth and wants them or me to take care of it.

Sell them some super glue.LOL:thumbup:

 

[SyracuseJohn]

Most new members dont know squat or they found some information on the web or from a friend and they look for reassurance - that's why they post up a question.

I agree that correcting wrong information is the right thing to do but besides posting the correct information we also need to say that the wrong information was IN FACT WRONG. How would an OP know there was wrong information unless someone said so? Put another way - how would an OP know which of several replies was the right reply.

FTR I think we as a group do a pretty good job of policing some of the BS posted so all I'm saying is when you see a response that's bogus - speak up and say so.

Dartman you and Pool911 were very helpful to me and I sincerely appreciate your candor and willingness to provide accurate information.

After reading this thread I couldn't help but want to comment on the hacks and novice issue.. You do a great job of policing incorrect information.

I started playing pool in my basement at 10 years old on a wooden montgomery wards $99 table. My dream was to own my own slate bed table with leather drop pockets. I was 40 by the time I owned a home large enough to have my own "Man Cave" equiped with a wet bar and Olehausen table. When I bought the table I had it professionally moved and set up.

Other then the recent issues with the dead cushion I have been very happy with my table and it still plays true from a level perspective even 15 years after installation numerous parties and 4 children growing up playing. That's due to a proper "professional installation". Let me also say I would never even consider moving a table myself and trying to do the leveling, transport and setup. I figure that by the time you buy the bondo, the mechanics level, the adhesive, the wax, rent the truck and buy the beer for 3 freinds and you destroy the cloth in removal you could have paid a professional to do the job twice.

I respect you guys who are professionals at setup and repair of tables and I appreciate this site. I found this site by googling "billiard table repair" and I am glad I found it. Prior to coming to this site my only frame of reference was a local Olehausen dealer who does great work but is a bit biased in his approach to cloth and cushions. You guys have given me a non bias perspective which helps me to decide whether this is a job I want to tackle or whether to hire a professional to do it.

But more importantly it has given me enough accurate information to make an intelligent decision about who I would want to do the work on my table if I hire it done and what materials I want them to use. After looking at some of the work that you guys do here it is obvious that you guys take pride in your profession and your work.

You have set the standard which anyone who works on my table will have to live up to.. After reading every post on the first 3 pages of this forum I have seen that specifying materials and getting references and pictures of prior work is critical to making a decision on who is qualified to work on my table.

By answering questions for those of us who have no idea what we are getting into you ulttimately help your profession. I do most of my own mechaical work on my boat but I buy all my parts and supplies from the one guy who gave an invaluable tip for replacing my outdrive years ago. I refer business to him for parts and repairs because he is an honest professional. Don't ever be afraid to help people in your area of expertise it will come back to you 10 fold in the long run.

You guys are the Best!

Thank you!

PS I am an expert in Insurance.. not table mechanics... if any of you guys need insurance advice let me know!