Age vs Experience

sellingboe

sellingboe

Active member
As I'm watching a 2022 match between Filler and Immonen, with Filler leading by a decent margin late, I started contemplating the age vs experience factor. With athleticism favoring youth and experience favoring age, I still wonder why youth seems to dominate the leader board. Is it as simple as experience doesn't add as much value as athleticism (i.e. hand/eye coordination)? I'm sure this has been addressed before, but I welcome fresh perspectives on it.
 
Interesting topic. In fairness to Mika, the young guys can't keep up with Filler, either. Mika is very fit and is probably every bit the athlete that Flller is, so I don't think that's the issue.

Overrating the importance of experience led to many very poor Team USA selections for the Mosconi Cup, especially during the long losing streak that ended in 2018.

Mika has had an amazing career and he is a living legend, but he's not and never was at Filler's current level. Sighting of the shots and keeping your nerves does get a bit harder as one ages, and father time remains undefeated.

Once in a blue moon, an older player turns back the clock, as Buddy Hall did at the 1998 US Open 9-ball, but the veterans don't beat the young superstars much anymore, and this is not likely to change.
 
I guess it is also the phase of life you are in. Niels Feijen said this a couple of times. He doesn't play as many events, because other things are important, too. For him it's family. For Oscar Dominguez it might be the room he is running. For Mika it might something else.
 
So, you're saying that it comes down to shot making and CB control, which is all predicated on hand/eye coordination. Furthermore, I think you're implying, or maybe I'm inferring, that the required experience doesn't require decades and thus is not that complicated for a true student of the game, no offense to Buddy Hall.
 
sellingboe said:
As I'm watching a 2022 match between Filler and Immonen, with Filler leading by a decent margin late, I started contemplating the age vs experience factor. With athleticism favoring youth and experience favoring age, I still wonder why youth seems to dominate the leader board. Is it as simple as experience doesn't add as much value as athleticism (i.e. hand/eye coordination)? I'm sure this has been addressed before, but I welcome fresh perspectives on it.
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In pool, in my opinion there are simply too many physical advantages the young player has over the older player for the experience factor to overcome.
 
ChrisinNC said:
In pool, in my opinion there are simply too many physical advantages the young player has over the older player for the experience factor to overcome.
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Ok, I accept that. What are the "too many" to which you are referring? I get hand/eye. Beyond that, I'm at a loss. Mental should favor experience.
 
sellingboe said:
As I'm watching a 2022 match between Filler and Immonen, with Filler leading by a decent margin late, I started contemplating the age vs experience factor. With athleticism favoring youth and experience favoring age, I still wonder why youth seems to dominate the leader board. Is it as simple as experience doesn't add as much value as athleticism (i.e. hand/eye coordination)? I'm sure this has been addressed before, but I welcome fresh perspectives on it.
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There are a lot of players that have experience with situations at a fairly young age. I think once you get past about 5 years of solid play several times a week, you will start to get to where it does not matter much if someone is 10 years older with that much more experience. The best current example is probably Savannah Easton, born in 2008, yet plays with the poise, experience and skill of players much older. I would put her against 95% of the league players in the country that have been playing longer than she has been alive. For most players being athletic or young or older does not have much to do with the ability to win as how they stand up to the pressure and play the right shots in the right way.
When I was in the USAPL, probably 4 of the top 10 players in our area were kids under 18, to the point that some of the grownups them to not play in their division anymore in tournaments because they would win LOL

 
In my own experience once my vision started to deteriorate that was the first hit it my game. That happened around 45. Prior to that I played at a high level when I needed or when an opponent pissed me off.

Between 45 and 55 I played in the ACS pool league in Chicago and hovered around a 55 -57 rank. Then at around 55 I developed Benign Essential Tremors and that was the toughest thing yet to change my game.

Now at 71 I still have some decent days but my consistency and fluidity of my stroke have also changed. None of these changes ended my game but everyone took a little bite one after the other.

I think age, vision, and overall health are all on the side of the younger player and added altogether are hard to beat.

I still love to play and win but also enjoy it when I lose to a high quality younger player. I had my time and now it is theirs. The respect they give me comes when they ask how old I am. I got their attention even if I might have lost..
 
sjm said:
Interesting topic. In fairness to Mika, the young guys can't keep up with Filler, either. Mika is very fit and is probably every bit the athlete that Flller is, so I don't think that's the issue.

Overrating the importance of experience led to many very poor Team USA selections for the Mosconi Cup, especially during the long losing streak that ended in 2018.

Mika has had an amazing career and he is a living legend, but he's not and never was at Filler's current level. Sighting of the shots and keeping your nerves does get a bit harder as one ages, and father time remains undefeated.

Once in a blue moon, an older player turns back the clock, as Buddy Hall did at the 1998 US Open 9-ball, but the veterans don't beat the young superstars much anymore, and this is not likely to change.
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There was a stretch (around 2009-2010 I think it was) when Mika won everything in sight and he was regarded as the top player in the world
 
The bottom line is that father time is a cruel bastid. He eventually beats everyone. Experience helps, but it comes to the point where it can't overcome physical problems brought on by the aging process. These problems show in any of a thousand ways...a slight fuzziness to the eyes. a joint problem affecting the stroke, hell..even a bad foot tendon can hurt play.

(edit) God willing, I'll turn 80 in a few months...I'm writing from experience. So, enjoy as much as you can, as long as you can.
 
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The ravages of age vs HAMB style of play is a more interesting conversation. While it's hard to argue against sharper eyes and motor control. I do believe physical fitness is one of the most overrated aspects of this game. How much do you think Filler can bench, or how many miles he can run full tilt...? I think the real differentiating factors are that the youth in the game are way more intensely focused and readily immerse themselves in pressure of the deep end of the pool. Most of the young elite were playing for a decade against the best before you even knew who they were.

Back to the interesting topic of performance vs age. I think most would agree the biggest issue older players face is failing eyesight. I know my near vision is steadily getting worse. To the point where I've actually put on my readers to clearly see the edges of balls very close together...lol. However, if you subscribe to the concept of your subconscious handling the heavy lifting of potting. Then for the vast majority of shots. The quality of your eyesight is less of a factor than you think. At least it should be. Shouldn't be too much more than your 'mind's eye' recognizing the situation and correlating it the correct mechanics to pot the ball.

Speaking only for myself. I may be at 90% of where my potting was 25yrs ago back in my mid 20's. That 10% is the rare/difficult stuff you don't come across very often. The rest is automatic for the most part. That 10% may just be the only aspect of my game that was better then than it is now. I'm an all round much stronger player now. Unfortunately a moves game only does so much against an eagle eyed potter. Pool in all forms favours aggression. Aggression = offence. Offence = potting. Potting in general is better performed by young eyes. I just don't think it's necessarily all that cut and dried.

In retrospect would I rather have that 10% potting vs ~25yrs of experience...? ...well I'm not a pro and don't count on pool as an income so the easy answer is no. However that 25yrs is just how long it took me to gain the knowledge I have. If someone was fully committed to developing their game, I'm sure the same value would only take a handful of yrs. So, there was the possibility that I could have been the same player I am now but at 30yrs old and great vision. That's what you're seeing in the youth of today. What's possible with real commitment. Not just comparable youth.
 
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Pool is more about knowedge. He who knows more has the advantage.

I'm not talking the "I've been playing for 40 years" crap. I'm talking about the knowledge that Dr.Dave is giving away. The you hit the ball like this, and it goes and hits this ball and does this.

You get some apa low level players a 4 and a 5 and play them even. The 5 wins most of the time because they have more knowledge.

Anything can happen on any given day.
 
sellingboe said:
As I'm watching a 2022 match between Filler and Immonen, with Filler leading by a decent margin late, I started contemplating the age vs experience factor. With athleticism favoring youth and experience favoring age, I still wonder why youth seems to dominate the leader board. Is it as simple as experience doesn't add as much value as athleticism (i.e. hand/eye coordination)? I'm sure this has been addressed before, but I welcome fresh perspectives on it.
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In a general way, could it be strength on the break? (Not thinking of these players in particular.)
 
jay helfert said:
Everything is like everything else, except not always. :)
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LOL.... thx I needed that Jay.
I"m still gigglin'.... nice way to put, this and that into one rack.

I think Eyesight is key on the top end. Wu at 16 made his point. Eventually the best in the world most likely will be the 21 yr old gang.
 
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