Just expierimenting again. I used AGIS for a shaft bushing for a 5/16-18 internal thread. Any thoughts about how durable it should be?...JER
AGIS for shaft bushing
- Thread starter BLACKHEARTCUES
- Start date
Interesting idea , I'm looking for an alternative material myself for joiners as the general brass style used on snooker cues these days weigh a little over 2oz . Makes it hard when someone wants an Ebony butt 3/4 joined cue and also wants it under 18oz . I heard Chris Hightower uses phenolic , right or wrong I'm gonna try a little canvas phenolic rod I have left over (the stuff from Atlas) for inserts !
Now for a light weight joint pin . I'm a little suss on Aluminium for this task , has anyone tried it ? I'm wondering if it might bend too easily . I see Atlas advertising G10 but it will probably be expensive .
Bazz
Now for a light weight joint pin . I'm a little suss on Aluminium for this task , has anyone tried it ? I'm wondering if it might bend too easily . I see Atlas advertising G10 but it will probably be expensive .
Bazz
Phenolics work well, If weight is the issue, why not core it.lignum said:
I believe it was Mike that turned me on to the idea of using phenolic a while back. I just finished one that I made a piloted insert from, but still have'nt shot with It yet. From what I see I like. I made My insert, and piloted it so the fit was snug. I have dry hit with it against My work bench, and seems nice and stiff. The acoustics don't feel, and sound too bad either.
I have used delrin before also, and it makes nice snug threads, but being waxy, glue does'nt stick well to it, and it produces an unusal hit, sort of on the soft side, but the faces of the joint still have stiff feel. it's hard to explain, but even though the hit is not super soft, I can almost feel the soft threads still. Does'nt make much sense, but that's the best way I can explain it. More times then not delrin inserts will push out over time also if not threaded correctly, and even then it's anyones guess, so may want to stay away from them.
I have'nt tried aegis, but can't say the thought did'nt cross My mind thinking of new things i could try. I would be interested in how it performs and holds up. Greg
I have used delrin before also, and it makes nice snug threads, but being waxy, glue does'nt stick well to it, and it produces an unusal hit, sort of on the soft side, but the faces of the joint still have stiff feel. it's hard to explain, but even though the hit is not super soft, I can almost feel the soft threads still. Does'nt make much sense, but that's the best way I can explain it. More times then not delrin inserts will push out over time also if not threaded correctly, and even then it's anyones guess, so may want to stay away from them.
I have'nt tried aegis, but can't say the thought did'nt cross My mind thinking of new things i could try. I would be interested in how it performs and holds up. Greg
Michael Webb said:
Cheers , I do some coring , but mainly on Burls because of the instability .
I prefer to get as close to the weight and balance required without coring if possible ! A strong light weight pin and insert (with or without solid full collars as shown in my picture) would allow me to no longer need to calculate the weight + the joiner .
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I've tried some soft inserts before CueCrazy , white/opaque nylon I believe , I know what your saying about the feel of the hit with those , that's why the phenolic sounds appealing , maybe some cotton reinforced bakelite I've got , it's very similar to canvas phenolic !
cheers , Bazz.
cheers , Bazz.
wastateqman
Registered
New insert material
Well I do own two Nova cues from Nubs that were built with the phenolic insert in the shafts. I think they hit very good, and have never had a problem with them. I do work on quite a few cues, and think that I would give the phenolic a try if I were to build any cues. Once in awhile I make a few sneaky petes but generally go with an all wood thread. Next couple I'll probally try the phenolic insert instead. Overall I don't think you can really go wrong with it for the long haul.
lignum said:
Well I do own two Nova cues from Nubs that were built with the phenolic insert in the shafts. I think they hit very good, and have never had a problem with them. I do work on quite a few cues, and think that I would give the phenolic a try if I were to build any cues. Once in awhile I make a few sneaky petes but generally go with an all wood thread. Next couple I'll probally try the phenolic insert instead. Overall I don't think you can really go wrong with it for the long haul.
Well that's a lot of Yes's for the phenolic . I'm thinking of making a joint like in the pic I posted but all phenolic except for the actual threaded pin . For this I could use brass or maybe aluminium , not so keen on ally though . I also like the idea of the Aegis for the insert , if only they were black or brown . (what is it with you American's and your white or cream ferrules ? 
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> I also plan to experiment with these eventually,and have a couple questions. Is there a different method for attaching them to the inside of the bored hole in the shaft? It seems to me that it might be a hard material to thread using the standard 7/16-14 insert pattern,having never threaded a phenolic my guess is the threads might disintegrate. I saw a pic online of a Joss shaft that has phenolic inserts,the pic was a cross-section and the insert was tapered,was there a particular reason for this? Tommy D.
Phenolic taps easy and I'm presuming it threads ok too . Personally I was thinking of the self-centreing type with either a small thread cut on to the base or just a snug fit with a few grooves for the epoxy to grab in to , like the Atlas or Prather s/c inserts. You could also glue the insert in to the shaft then drill/bore & tap it out to your preferred thread style afterwards .
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lignum said:You could also glue the insert in to the shaft then drill/bore & tap it out to your preferred thread style afterwards
Well said.
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Should be very durable. The white will probably get dirty and be a cosmetic issue but the threads should last forever. LE phenolic would be perfect if you want to stay away from metal inserts. I have some made up if you would like me to send you a sample so you can see how I made them.
Murray Tucker said:
THANKS MURRAY, send it to:
BLACK HEART CUSTOM POOL CUES
% Jerry Eick
822 Schuyler St.
Peru, Il 61354
Those aren't Ivor-X. Those are Delrin.Delrin doesn't glue but he threads them and the shaft and the epoxy in between the Delrin and the wood is so strong, the shaft would split before that insert would spinn..kenl said:
He is now using a part Kevlar material which glues better and is virtually indestructible.
I see, I didn't think it could be delrin as it doesn't glue well at all. There was one time I couldn't break the cue and after running around like a headless chicken decided to go to the loo and wash my hands and finally unscrewed the shaft with lots of elbow grease and grunting. I examined the end of the shaft and there didn't seem to be any movement of the insert.
But there was another time I unscrewed a 314 with a quick release and the brass insert came out of the shaft with the butt pin and it suddenly dawned on me where the irritating clicking sound that I've been putting up with for weeks have been coming from. And it seemed to me that its not a good idea to have the brass insert all shiny and smooth where it contacts the wood and the (wood?) glue that came out of the shaft end was rubbery. I wonder if that should be the case.
But there was another time I unscrewed a 314 with a quick release and the brass insert came out of the shaft with the butt pin and it suddenly dawned on me where the irritating clicking sound that I've been putting up with for weeks have been coming from. And it seemed to me that its not a good idea to have the brass insert all shiny and smooth where it contacts the wood and the (wood?) glue that came out of the shaft end was rubbery. I wonder if that should be the case.
kenl said:
Glue doesn't stick to Delrin but if the threads are a good fit the glue makes for a good interfearence fit filling any inperfections between the two parts making it very difficult to unscrew even though the to parts aren't actually glued together.
When the insert came out of the shaft that rubbery substance sounds like five-minute epoxy that wasn't mixed correctly or was applied after it already started to set.
Dick
JoeyInCali said:
Yep, delrin does'nt grip well no matter how tight you make the fit or if you knotch it, the only way to have a chance it will hold, and not back out down the road, IMO would be by threading the OD. I've seen them used in cues, usually on 3/8 pins, and they were always backing out of the shaft, because they were press fit, so i tried one Myself for a experiement on one of My cues to see If I could do it better, took many precautions, ahead of time, and did what I thought was a better fit then what I had seen in others, I even made attempts to get the glue to grab better by roughing it up, and I also grooved it enough that it should have held anyway. The fit was very snug also, and had to be pressed in. It held up fine for over a year, and now it needs slightly faced, so there was some movement eventually, even though I took extra measures to avoid it. Threading is the only way I would even attempt using delrin.
Kevlar inserts huh, sounds bullet proof
Greg
spot on RHNCUE , soft glue in joints is actually usually just poorly mixed epoxy. A mate brought a Yak Hopper jump cue around the other week . The joint pin pulled out and it was just glued in with soft rubbery stuff - ie: poorly mixed epoxy , worse still , it was in an unthreaded , oversized hole , what a joke.
By the way , has anyone seen Yak cues ? A mate bought the hopper and a playing cue , looks like the guy who made em lined up the sale and then decided to learn how to make a cue ! Looked like a 4th graders school project gone wrong , so badly and sadly wrong
!
ps: here's an Ebay link to some Nylon inserts , these glue a bit like Delrin .
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CUE-PARTS-5-...193425586QQcategoryZ21212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
By the way , has anyone seen Yak cues ? A mate bought the hopper and a playing cue , looks like the guy who made em lined up the sale and then decided to learn how to make a cue ! Looked like a 4th graders school project gone wrong , so badly and sadly wrong
!ps: here's an Ebay link to some Nylon inserts , these glue a bit like Delrin .
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CUE-PARTS-5-...193425586QQcategoryZ21212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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soft insert
I have used the phenolic and had good results. If you machine your own pins or mill your threads you can get a very nice fit between the two. One habit I have got into as far as 24hour epoxy is concerned is to not throw out the cups for at least a day that way I can judge whether it has set up properly.
I have used the phenolic and had good results. If you machine your own pins or mill your threads you can get a very nice fit between the two. One habit I have got into as far as 24hour epoxy is concerned is to not throw out the cups for at least a day that way I can judge whether it has set up properly.