aim vs stroke???

Tin Man

Tin Man

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I had an interesting experience the other day that shattered my belief about the proportionate importance of aim vs stroke.

I was practicing some trouble shots that involved both a distance from the ball and an angle that was easy to misjudge. When I missed I wasn't sure if it was that I didn't see the shot right or that I didn't deliver the cue ball well.

Then tried something that I haven't before. I put a ring on the pool table (those little 3 ring binder page protectors) so that I could set up the same shot every time, then I put another ring on the pool table where the base of the ghost ball needed to be to pocket it.

Now, shooting the same shot with a very easy to distinguish target, I made the shot 10, 12, 15 times in a row. It was unbelievable. This long, thin, cut, that I have been missing for years, and now I was firing it in hard, soft, with inside, outside, and I almost never missed.

The point is that after this I have come to believe that once you develop a straight stroke and good fundamentals, aiming and visualizing the shot correctly is far more difficult than getting the cue ball there. So while other people may disdain aiming threads, I am going to start spending more time on this and less time on those long straight ins....
 
after a couple of weeks please let me know if it did a big difference on your game . it looks like you will feel more comfortable and start getting more confidence on your shots, maybe you will start to see the ring on every shot. good luck w/ it.
 
After a certain point in ones game miss shots are mostly due to stroke flaw. On tough shots i notice when i tend to hold the cue close to my body, where to i feel it rubbing my side i can't miss. Its just learning to be more consistent with it on all shots not just the tough ones LOL.
 
Tin Man...I use those "hole protectors" in lessons and pool school, all the time (in fact, we'll use them this weekend in Fargo). They are great, and don't leave any residue on your cloth. As you said, they allow you to set up and execute the EXACT same shot, over and over. This a great way to get feedback. It's very difficult to "eyeball" the same shot over and over.

P.S. I shot you an email about coming to Minneapolis after pool school.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Tin Man said:
I had an interesting experience the other day that shattered my belief about the proportionate importance of aim vs stroke.

I was practicing some trouble shots that involved both a distance from the ball and an angle that was easy to misjudge. When I missed I wasn't sure if it was that I didn't see the shot right or that I didn't deliver the cue ball well.

Then tried something that I haven't before. I put a ring on the pool table (those little 3 ring binder page protectors) so that I could set up the same shot every time, then I put another ring on the pool table where the base of the ghost ball needed to be to pocket it.

Now, shooting the same shot with a very easy to distinguish target, I made the shot 10, 12, 15 times in a row. It was unbelievable. This long, thin, cut, that I have been missing for years, and now I was firing it in hard, soft, with inside, outside, and I almost never missed.

The point is that after this I have come to believe that once you develop a straight stroke and good fundamentals, aiming and visualizing the shot correctly is far more difficult than getting the cue ball there. So while other people may disdain aiming threads, I am going to start spending more time on this and less time on those long straight ins....
Click to expand...
 
Tin Man said:
I had an interesting experience the other day that shattered my belief about the proportionate importance of aim vs stroke.

I was practicing some trouble shots that involved both a distance from the ball and an angle that was easy to misjudge. When I missed I wasn't sure if it was that I didn't see the shot right or that I didn't deliver the cue ball well.

Then tried something that I haven't before. I put a ring on the pool table (those little 3 ring binder page protectors) so that I could set up the same shot every time, then I put another ring on the pool table where the base of the ghost ball needed to be to pocket it.

Now, shooting the same shot with a very easy to distinguish target, I made the shot 10, 12, 15 times in a row. It was unbelievable. This long, thin, cut, that I have been missing for years, and now I was firing it in hard, soft, with inside, outside, and I almost never missed.

The point is that after this I have come to believe that once you develop a straight stroke and good fundamentals, aiming and visualizing the shot correctly is far more difficult than getting the cue ball there. So while other people may disdain aiming threads, I am going to start spending more time on this and less time on those long straight ins....
Click to expand...

Way to go bub. It is nice to have wonderful discoveries about your game. Work on it and soak it in real good. Your improvement will come in spurts.
 
Agreed. It is fairly easy to teach somebody a straight stroke, but it can take a lifetime (and/or lots of 3D visualization/perception talent) to develop solid aiming intuition. When a shot doesn't look right to me, I sometimes simulate your "little white donut" exercise using the cue tip (see NV 3.2 - Using the cue to help visualize the impact and aiming lines). This little trick can help improve confidence when a shot doesn't look right at first.

Regards,
Dave

Tin Man said:
I had an interesting experience the other day that shattered my belief about the proportionate importance of aim vs stroke.

I was practicing some trouble shots that involved both a distance from the ball and an angle that was easy to misjudge. When I missed I wasn't sure if it was that I didn't see the shot right or that I didn't deliver the cue ball well.

Then tried something that I haven't before. I put a ring on the pool table (those little 3 ring binder page protectors) so that I could set up the same shot every time, then I put another ring on the pool table where the base of the ghost ball needed to be to pocket it.

Now, shooting the same shot with a very easy to distinguish target, I made the shot 10, 12, 15 times in a row. It was unbelievable. This long, thin, cut, that I have been missing for years, and now I was firing it in hard, soft, with inside, outside, and I almost never missed.

The point is that after this I have come to believe that once you develop a straight stroke and good fundamentals, aiming and visualizing the shot correctly is far more difficult than getting the cue ball there. So while other people may disdain aiming threads, I am going to start spending more time on this and less time on those long straight ins....
Click to expand...
 
I think that straight stroke delivery is far more difficult to master than correct aim/angle judgement. You need both though.
A lot of people think they can shoot straight. Well they can't. If straight shooting was even remotely easy to learn, then most of they players could go to 12ft snooker table and easily knock long zero degree straight blue ball in.
 
Scott Lee said:
Tin Man...I use those "hole protectors" in lessons and pool school, all the time (in fact, we'll use them this weekend in Fargo). They are great, and don't leave any residue on your cloth.
Click to expand...

How much do they effect spin if you're placing the cue ball on them and doing a lot of draw on the shot?

Brian
 
predator said:
I think that straight stroke delivery is far more difficult to master than correct aim/angle judgement.
Click to expand...
I guess this depends on how straight you mean, and on what you mean by "master." Some people seem to have more trouble with aim, others seem to have more trouble with the stroke, but I think it is easier to correct stroke flaws (especially with beginners).

predator said:
You need both though. A lot of people think they can shoot straight. Well they can't.If straight shooting was even remotely easy to learn, then most of they players could go to 12ft snooker table and easily knock long zero degree straight blue ball in.
Click to expand...
Good point. On a snooker table, both your aim and stroke must be nearly perfect.

Dave
 
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btoneill said:
How much do they effect spin if you're placing the cue ball on them and doing a lot of draw on the shot?

Brian
Click to expand...

Brian, we use them on our draw and stop drills with little if any effect. The benefit of being able to set up the exact same shot is great.

Steve
 
Not to start the aiming controversy again, but I started making more difficult shots on a more regular basis when I started using CTE. Good points in this thread about the stroke, though.
 
Pushout said:
Not to start the aiming controversy again, but I started making more difficult shots on a more regular basis when I started using CTE. Good points in this thread about the stroke, though.
Click to expand...
Could you describe briefly, and in simple terms, what CTE is to you (i.e., how you aim with CTE). There seems to be a lot of different versions out there, some of which can be found here:


Thanks,
Dave
 
pooltchr said:
Brian, we use them on our draw and stop drills with little if any effect. The benefit of being able to set up the exact same shot is great.
Click to expand...

I've seen you using them in your lessons before. I have debated picking some up to use on my stop drills so I can set them up much quicker and not have to worry about the aim and can focus on my stroke and cue ball contact.

Brian
 
Tin man,
You are on the right path. Please look at the picture of the trainer on my site under the products link. Far right pic
When you place the trainer over the foot spot and line it to the corner and side pockets you can shoot all the angles into your choice of 4 pockets, and all from 1 set up.
once you have the aiming point you can work on the stroke.
Mark
 
Keep on practicing Tin Man, and maybe some day you will be a good player!:grin:
 
btoneill said:
I've seen you using them in your lessons before. I have debated picking some up to use on my stop drills so I can set them up much quicker and not have to worry about the aim and can focus on my stroke and cue ball contact.

Brian
Click to expand...

I also use a laser level to make sure I have them all in a perfectly straight line down to the pocket, so for the stop shot drill, I know all shots are dead straight. That way, if the cue ball drifts right or left, I know my aim was off.

Steve
 
Tin man, your method of visualization is certainly sound. Your thread brought back to mind a post I made some time ago. I'll share it again (for what it is worth) :)

Please forgive the poor diagram ...

I use this all the time and one of the merits to it (at least for me) is that it helps prevent hitting the OB too thickly on shots where the OB and CB are 4 or more feet apart and OB is near the long rail on one side of the table and the CB is at a sharp angle to it. Try it out, you may find it helpful. It takes a tad of getting used to.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=123408
 
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