Aiming IMPORTANT..REALLY

av84fun

Banned
Aiming threads have recently attracted hundreds of posts and certainly thousands in the past.

The interest is obviously valid because there are few, if any issues in the study of the game that are more important.

But when ONE thread draws hundreds of posts and thousands of views AND so much bitterness and condescension then hopefully this post regarding which I expect few replies...and ask for none...will be helpful in REDUCING both the number of the posts and the emotional content of them.

Aiming, by definition, requires vision and vision, like all senses, is imperfect.

If a person is astigmatic and doesn't know it, then he will swear that the picture on the wall isn't level and could pass a lie detector test to that effect.

But a person standing next to him who does not have an astigmatism will swear with equal fervor that the picture IS level and HE could pass a lie detector test.

That is one reason (not astigmatism but human perception in general) that "eye witnesses" are WELL KNOWN to provide among the least reliable testimony.

All aiming systems require vision and somes require the use of CB/OB parts that are offset from the center of the CB/OB AND from the middle of the shooters eye position.

In such instances "A" may actually see one image and "B" another and they will both swear to what they see...and they both will be telling the TRUTH.

My point is this. With respect to vision we all have our own realities. Some people will have identical realities and others will have different realities.

So, when people post here about how they go about the aiming process, with rare exceptions...there are pathological liars in the world and there are those who will sell a faulty product knowingly... but by and large, most of the posts here about aiming methodology come from people who are taking their time, for no economic reward, to share THEIR REALITIES with the community and there is MUCH to be praised about that and NOTHING to be dealt with in a belligerent, condescending or arrogant fashion.

The posters sees through his own eyes and no one elses and when the astigmatic guy is told that the picture is NOT crooked and that, by the way, you are an idiot for thinking it is...then nothing productive has been accomplished.

So, I am just offering the suggestion that on visual perception issues especially, some slack be cut to the proponents of a given method that might work quite well for HIM/HER and not to suggest that the method is worthless, or a waste of time or the meanderings of an utter fool.

Pointing out differences of opinion and in some cases facts...or at least things believed to be facts can HELP the person who might not have tested the theory as comprehensively as possible.

For if you conclude that the poster is well intentioned and merely trying to help by making a contribution...even if the views expressed are wrong, the posters motives should be respected and responded to in kind.

Clearly, doing so would cut down the number of posts by half if not substantially more and reduce the snotty exchanges that many...including me...find themselves drawn into from time to time.

Conversely, lunging in with "you have no clue" and doing so, for example, under the transparent guise of protecting the innocent and helpless among us, will only lead to a predictable and unfortunate result.

That's all. Thanks for reading this...both of you.
(I-:
 
All this talk about "aiming systems" confuses the hell outta me.

How do I do it? I hit the OB where I think it needs to be hit in order to make it go in the direction I want it to. Now, here's the best part....it works! All this talk about quarter ball, parallel, ghost ball, whatever!

It amazes me that people can't just see where they need to hit the OB to make the shot. Maybe I'm just lucky.

I do know that my eyesight is not as good as it used to be. I've noticed that a lot lately, but as far as pool is concerned it seems to be working OK.
 
chilli66 said:
Now that's just scary. Now you've got me wondering what is the most discussed subject here on AZB?

Damn, I gotta head to the restroom. Now THAT is when I could use an aiming system! At least that's what my wife says!;)

LOL...Like the sign over the stand up in the Men's Room...........
We aim to please. You aim too, please.
(-:
 
av84fun said:
LOL...Like the sign over the stand up in the Men's Room...........
We aim to please. You aim too, please.
(-:

Ever seen this one?

LOLOAQICOI82Q2P
 
chilli66 said:
All this talk about "aiming systems" confuses the hell outta me.

How do I do it? I hit the OB where I think it needs to be hit in order to make it go in the direction I want it to. Now, here's the best part....it works! All this talk about quarter ball, parallel, ghost ball, whatever!

It amazes me that people can't just see where they need to hit the OB to make the shot. Maybe I'm just lucky.

I do know that my eyesight is not as good as it used to be. I've noticed that a lot lately, but as far as pool is concerned it seems to be working OK.

That is my point in an important way. YOU have the ability to just SEE the shots and that is a big advantage.

You have noticed that on bank shots and/or kicks, some pros use their cue sticks to execute some system..others use the same system but are able to visualize the lines that others need the stick to help them with.

Still others have no system and can just imagine the path of the CB...sometimes over 3-4 rail distances. Bobby Pickle is an example of the latter and I know for a fact that he has never read a pool instructional book in his life!

Memorization is another skill that people possess in WILDLY varying degrees. Those complex kicking systems...Plus 2 or whatever they are called, give me a migraine headache just looking at the diagrams but I imagine that there are great players who can recite those systems in their sleep...and others, like Bobby who have never even seen the diagrams, let alone tried to memorize them.

Anyway, there is a limited number of World Champions and/or world reknowned instructors who post here..and God knows some of THEM disagree with each other so most of us would be wise to cool our jets and not be quite so adamant about our theories and be less inclined to tell people that what is working for them...isn't working for them.

LOL

And I point all but the last finger first...at myself...while pledging to be less inclined to respond in kind when disccussions erode into battles.

Regards,
Jim
 
I think you summed it up well there, Jim. It all comes down to the individual, and that's what makes the game so interesting. If we all played the same way it'd be dull as hell.

BUT! Have you figured out the other restroom sign yet?:D
 
very good post av8! I was into aiming systems for about 15 minutes until I found a sports website that explained much of what you said about how our eyes differ. I am slightly astigmatic AND slightly color blind which creates it's own set of issues.

Wanna see a funny post?......ask the next "aiming system guru" to qualify thier eye sight patterns BEFORE they post a reply. Could you imagine how many aiiming system/eye pattern post we would need to cover eveyone?:)

Gerry<< has his own aiming system.........go hit 500,000 shots and you will have your very own sytem to fall back on!
 
Gerry said:
I am slightly astigmatic AND slightly color blind which creates it's own set of issues.

OMG... that's why there are numbers on the balls!

Edit: this was written jokingly.. sorry if taken differently
 
Last edited:
Ralph Kramden said:
OMG... that's why there are numbers on the balls!


true but most players get to patern the rack in thier head by the colors of the balls even without seeing the numbers. If I'm standing anywhere around the table chances are I can't see some of the nubers on the balls, so I have to alk around to make them out, AND try to keep my pattern in my head at the same time.....not a big deal, but if you don't have to deal with it it would be nice. Just like the folks that have to wear glasses, I can't imagine that!

Gerry
 
Ralph Kramden said:
OMG... that's why there are numbers on the balls!

Hey...he said "issues" not that he couldn't tell which was which...although me might have to walk arouund to a position that he could see the numbers...which are not visable from all directions.

And since all color deficient people have a green deficiency, when playing on green cloth it might be difficult to tell where the 6 ball ends and the table begins..

BTW, how's Alice these days??
(-:
 
chilli66 said:
All this talk about "aiming systems" confuses the hell outta me.

How do I do it? I hit the OB where I think it needs to be hit in order to make it go in the direction I want it to.

Ok, how do you make that decision? How do you decide where to hit the object ball? Please explain.
 
Pushout said:
Ok, how do you make that decision? How do you decide where to hit the object ball? Please explain.

I think most people can 'see' the base starting contact point with little instruction.

I think however , most of them can't A) hit it from any real distance and/or 2) compensate for the round CB , CB spin and CB throw.

I think that is one of the biggest contentions 'anti' system people have with systems. There isn't one that can do that without having to add the variables in yourself to make it work across the board.
 
RRfireblade said:
I think most people can 'see' the base starting contact point with little instruction.

I think however , most of them can't A) hit it from any real distance and/or 2) compensate for the round CB , CB spin and CB throw.

I think that is one of the biggest contentions 'anti' system people have with systems. There isn't one that can do that without having to add the variables in yourself to make it work across the board.

SPOT ON!

But the "pro system" camp (certain of them) suggests that their method specifically addresses the distance and roundness issues you cite. Certainly, the cue tip aiming methods do that by converting the cue stick into a rifle which can be intuitively aimed at far distance targets.

It is on the matter of what I'll just lump into the category of "cueing/collision issues" that systems are reduced to "baselines."

But I suggest that having a baseline from which to apply cueing elements or to adjust due to collision issues, is a FAR better approach than to start with basically no clue about how to pocket balls and just figure it out on your own.

Sure, there are a few "naturals" who just had/have a "gift" but if the vast majority of us simply wait for our gift to arrive, then we will be APA 5s for a LONG, LONG time.

And BTW, many of the "naturals" LIVED/LIVE in pool halls...literally and figuratively. Others own their own pool tables. Others still, like Landon Shuffet is growing up not only with a table in his home but a father who is a teriffic BCA Instructor. What would Landon's speed be if the preceding was not the case?

FINALLY...and this is huge IMHO...if you use a system that works...FOR YOU...in even the significant majority of cases...in other words, the system has flaws...then:

A) you can learn what the flaws are and develop specific adjustments...in which case you can convert a flawed system into one with few, if any flaws. In other words, the flaws will be consistent and so you can adjust for them consistently and
B) The HUGE part is that since a great many shots are going perfectly EVERY TIME...then you train you eye more quickly and more precisely than any "bang 'em until you get it right" method can accomplish and therefore, you will more quickly be able to SEE VERY CLEARLY that the shot won't go.

THAT is how a system with certain flaws becomes a system WITHOUT those flaws...because A) you KNOW the shot won't go (valuable information in and of itself and B) exactly what to do to make it go (which is of ultimate value.)

So, my vote is to rapidly accelerate your ability to pocket balls by employing a system that works for you in the great majority of cases...learn to adjust for its flaws...and then learn how to play SHAPE so well that you never have hard shots!!!!
(-:

Jim
 
Agreed.

I've said it before and will again , everyone uses a system , even the feel players.

I'm a feel player. :)

I use a system, I have a routine. I didn't read about it or was taught it but it sure is a 'system'. Unless you close your eyes , get down on the shot and pull the trigger . . . then you'd be a feel player. ;)

As a feel player I still have my method , I find the line to the target , the point of which that will get me there and I add adjustments for the physics that change the 'base line'. If you play long enough you don't think thru the steps one by one , you just do it and all of a sudden . . . your a feel player. But it all started somewhere whether you started with the math side or the proof/theory (trial and error ;) ) side there was a method to the madness that got you here.

IMO.

:cool:
 
I am also a "feel" player. Have been for over 50 years. What amazes me is that people apparently make conscious decisions on every shot regarding throw, cling, etc. This would drive me nuts if I had to do that.
Maybe I've shot so many shots that my subconscious makes adjustments when I aim. Seldom do I adjust for anything with the exception of some deflection if outrageous english is being used.
 
Back
Top