Curdog said:
Well that's exactly what I was saying. 50 years of shooting balls and now you don't think about it anymore.
How well did you do the first year of the 50 ?
Aiming IMPORTANT..REALLY
- Thread starter av84fun
- Start date
Well that's exactly what I was saying. 50 years of shooting balls and now you don't think about it anymore.
How well did you do the first year of the 50 ?
Curdog said:
IMHO - you are much more representative of people who are
what I would classify as capable shotmakers.
I also doubt you make any subconscious adjustments. I expect
that because of your long experience, and well practiced routine,
you know where to hit the OB before you ever bend down to shoot.
I know that is how I do it. And that seems to be the sticking point
with most of the 'system' advocates. They just can't seem to accept
that anybody could shoot without starting form some idealized
perfect-center perfect-straight initial position.
Add to that they seem to believe that a perfect aim will result
in a perfect result. In point of fact, competent players miss because
their mechanics were not accurate enough, not because their aim was off.
Sometning else that adds to the general misunderstanding,
I think many fairly good players would be at a complete loss to explain
exactly why shot A, is more difficult than shot B.
So I wouldn't call you a 'feel' player. I sure don't apply that term
to myself. Tho, that doesn't mean you don't have plenty of feel.
To me, it is quite simply, that the aimming process, in ALL it's
details is internalized to the point that it no longer requires
ANY concious thought.
Dale
pool
CREAMED.
CALL ME AT 484 623 4144 AND I WILL ENLIGHTEN YOU.
HAL HOULE
WHAT YOU DO NOT USE IS THE AIMING SYSTEM THAT REYES, BUSTAMANTE, SOUQUET, ARCHER, ORTMAN, VARNER, AND EVERY OTHER TOP PLAYER USES. THERE IS NO LINE TO A TARGET, THERE ARE NO ADJUSTMENTS FOR PHYSICS. THERE IS NO BASE LINE. THERE IS NO MATH SIDE. THERE ARE NO FEEL PLAYERS IN THE PRO RANKS. THEY WOULD GETRRfireblade said:Agreed.
I've said it before and will again , everyone uses a system , even the feel players.
I'm a feel player.
I use a system, I have a routine. I didn't read about it or was taught it but it sure is a 'system'. Unless you close your eyes , get down on the shot and pull the trigger . . . then you'd be a feel player.
As a feel player I still have my method , I find the line to the target , the point of which that will get me there and I add adjustments for the physics that change the 'base line'. If you play long enough you don't think thru the steps one by one , you just do it and all of a sudden . . . your a feel player. But it all started somewhere whether you started with the math side or the proof/theory (trial and error
IMO.
CREAMED.
CALL ME AT 484 623 4144 AND I WILL ENLIGHTEN YOU.
HAL HOULE
mbvl said:
Don't be mean to Hal.
WHAT YOU DO NOT USE IS THE AIMING SYSTEM THAT REYES, BUSTAMANTE, SOUQUET, ARCHER, ORTMAN, VARNER, AND EVERY OTHER TOP PLAYER USES. THERE IS NO LINE TO A TARGET, THERE ARE NO ADJUSTMENTS FOR PHYSICS. THERE IS NO BASE LINE. THERE IS NO MATH SIDE. THERE ARE NO FEEL PLAYERS IN THE PRO RANKS. THEY WOULD GET
CREAMED.
CALL ME AT 484 623 4144 AND I WILL ENLIGHTEN YOU.
HAL HOULE
Ah, buti naman tinuro sayo ni idol ang mga sikreto nya.
Di ko alam marunong ka pala managalog.
CREAMED.
CALL ME AT 484 623 4144 AND I WILL ENLIGHTEN YOU.
HAL HOULE
Ah, buti naman tinuro sayo ni idol ang mga sikreto nya.
Di ko alam marunong ka pala managalog.
Quote from av84fun(And BTW, many of the "naturals" LIVED/LIVE in pool halls...literally and figuratively. Others own their own pool tables. Others still, like Landon Shuffet is growing up not only with a table in his home but a father who is a teriffic BCA Instructor. What would Landon's speed be if the preceding was not the case?)
Landon probably wouldn't have a speed.
Stan Shuffett
Landon probably wouldn't have a speed.
Stan Shuffett
RRfireblade said:Agreed.
I've said it before and will again , everyone uses a system , even the feel players.
I'm a feel player.
I use a system, I have a routine. I didn't read about it or was taught it but it sure is a 'system'. Unless you close your eyes , get down on the shot and pull the trigger . . . then you'd be a feel player.
As a feel player I still have my method , I find the line to the target , the point of which that will get me there and I add adjustments for the physics that change the 'base line'. If you play long enough you don't think thru the steps one by one , you just do it and all of a sudden . . . your a feel player. But it all started somewhere whether you started with the math side or the proof/theory (trial and error
IMO.
EXACTLY!
Regards,
Jim
Curdog said:
Before you attribute your decisions to your subconscious mind, consider this.
When you decide to proceed through an intersection on the yellow light you have to:
1. Calculate the distance between your car and the intersection.
2. Calculate whether you will enter the intersection with the light still yellow at your current speed in feet per second...which alswo involves calculating whether you need to step on the gas.
3. You probably (and should) determine whether there are cars approaching intersection from the cross street who might enter the intersection at a high rate of speed but JUST making the green light.
4. Calculate whether you should/can stop instead of proceedint through and if so, how hard you would have to brake.
And you do all that in less than two seconds and entirely with your conscious mind.
Given your lengthy experience in the game you can decide in some fraction of a second whether you are going to use a little outside on a cut to the right down the rail or whether to have to adjust your aim because inside is required for shape..and you probably do that before you ever get over the shot.
So, right..you don;t "ponder" over your decisions but as other posters have stated, some who believe they are feel players are making NUMEROUS conscious decisions...but just at blinding speeds.
Trust me, I am not telling you how you shoot. I'm just suggesting that it is POSSIBLE that your conscious mind is more involved than you might realize...none of which makes a damn bit of difference one way or the other. (-:
It's just interesting to study how various people approach this game.
Regards,
Jim
Stop using Efren's name when he hasn't endorsed your system.kildegirl said:
A. aiming system works perfectly for A shot
B. aiming system works perfectly for B shot
ect..
ect..
knowing many systems allows you to choose the right system... for any given shot. sometimes its a matter of merging two systems or more... to allow you to make a given shot.
Mine is better, His is better, that guys is even better... blah, blah, blah,
there are simply "TOO MANY VARIABLES" ball position, shooter position, shooter height, shooter stroke, the cue, the tip, the shaft, the size of the shooter, the weight of his cue compared to the length to the butt from the balance point, how hard you hit,what English you prefer..... and on and on and on.
There are as many ways to shoot a shot as there are shooters to shoot it!!
Each person leaning over a shot has a different view, a different cue, a different past, a different learning curve, a different history, a different height a different weight and on and on and on...
This is a personal game, with individual requirements and each individual has their own requirements. ANYONE who says he has the answer to all variables is a LIAR!!
Learn how to play YOUR game and YOU will be fine.
B. aiming system works perfectly for B shot
ect..
ect..
knowing many systems allows you to choose the right system... for any given shot. sometimes its a matter of merging two systems or more... to allow you to make a given shot.
Mine is better, His is better, that guys is even better... blah, blah, blah,
there are simply "TOO MANY VARIABLES" ball position, shooter position, shooter height, shooter stroke, the cue, the tip, the shaft, the size of the shooter, the weight of his cue compared to the length to the butt from the balance point, how hard you hit,what English you prefer..... and on and on and on.
There are as many ways to shoot a shot as there are shooters to shoot it!!
Each person leaning over a shot has a different view, a different cue, a different past, a different learning curve, a different history, a different height a different weight and on and on and on...
This is a personal game, with individual requirements and each individual has their own requirements. ANYONE who says he has the answer to all variables is a LIAR!!
Learn how to play YOUR game and YOU will be fine.
Softshot..."This is a personal game, with individual requirements and each individual has their own requirements. ANYONE who says he has the answer to all variables is a LIAR!!"
"Liar"...maybe....but maybe just somewhat self-deluded.
But on the other hand, Mosconi DID pocket 526 in an exhibition and Babe Cranfield DID pocket 768 in a practice session in front of witnesses. (Plus he was such a GENTLEMAN of the highest order that if he SAID he did...then he did! Book it Danno.
So, it's a little hard to sustain the view that no one knows everything there is to know about aiming.
What we do know though, is that pool is played by human beings who succumb to losses of concentration, fatigue, substance abuse, personal family stresses etc. that can cause a player who knows EXACTLY how to aim a shot to miss.
Additionally, aiming and therefore pocketing balls while a BIG percentage of the game is not by any strecth if the imagination, the entire game. It may not even be HALF the game. The other huge issue is, of course, shape.
EXACTLY...which is why IMHO, the discussion of various aiming systems EVEN THOUGH each may have certain flaws, is valuable.
Personally, for shots that are more difficult, I will use one system to confirm another.
We all have shot types that are on our "most frequently missed" list...or we should have such a list and if a given system worked on JUST THOSE shot types, we could significantly boost our win percentage.
Frankly, the methods I use are hyper-accurate and I find myself missing due to the very same variables you refer to but the big ones for me are squirt compensation because it is so variable..and inside english. But give me a center ball hit where shape or scratching are not issues...and I can be pretty dangerous.
It is just STUPID of me that I don't set up 100 inside english shots a day in practice...but I don't..so I guess I'm stupid...or hopefully better put, I just don't have the obsessive-compulsive disorder that most great champions have.
One top WPBA pro has been quoted as saying that when she misses a shot in practice, she will shoot it ONE HUNDRED TIMES.
Another told me personally that for months, she shot NOTHING in practice but drills...PERIOD...didn't run a single rack.
Anyway, I agree with your views and just suggest that people who have things to contribute on the subject of aiming are not fundamentally kooks unless they suggest that their systems/methods/techniques are infallible.
And those who say "Oh no, not another aiming thread" better not miss much themselves. (-:
Regards,
Jim
"Liar"...maybe....but maybe just somewhat self-deluded.
But on the other hand, Mosconi DID pocket 526 in an exhibition and Babe Cranfield DID pocket 768 in a practice session in front of witnesses. (Plus he was such a GENTLEMAN of the highest order that if he SAID he did...then he did! Book it Danno.
So, it's a little hard to sustain the view that no one knows everything there is to know about aiming.
What we do know though, is that pool is played by human beings who succumb to losses of concentration, fatigue, substance abuse, personal family stresses etc. that can cause a player who knows EXACTLY how to aim a shot to miss.
Additionally, aiming and therefore pocketing balls while a BIG percentage of the game is not by any strecth if the imagination, the entire game. It may not even be HALF the game. The other huge issue is, of course, shape.
EXACTLY...which is why IMHO, the discussion of various aiming systems EVEN THOUGH each may have certain flaws, is valuable.
Personally, for shots that are more difficult, I will use one system to confirm another.
We all have shot types that are on our "most frequently missed" list...or we should have such a list and if a given system worked on JUST THOSE shot types, we could significantly boost our win percentage.
Frankly, the methods I use are hyper-accurate and I find myself missing due to the very same variables you refer to but the big ones for me are squirt compensation because it is so variable..and inside english. But give me a center ball hit where shape or scratching are not issues...and I can be pretty dangerous.
It is just STUPID of me that I don't set up 100 inside english shots a day in practice...but I don't..so I guess I'm stupid...or hopefully better put, I just don't have the obsessive-compulsive disorder that most great champions have.
One top WPBA pro has been quoted as saying that when she misses a shot in practice, she will shoot it ONE HUNDRED TIMES.
Another told me personally that for months, she shot NOTHING in practice but drills...PERIOD...didn't run a single rack.
Anyway, I agree with your views and just suggest that people who have things to contribute on the subject of aiming are not fundamentally kooks unless they suggest that their systems/methods/techniques are infallible.
And those who say "Oh no, not another aiming thread" better not miss much themselves. (-:
Regards,
Jim
^
Well, you might wanna take out Willie from the esoteric aiming system practitioner. Former world class staright pool player and former Mosconi exhibiton sparring partner Wayne Norcross knows what system Mosconi used.
It's called the ghost ball. You can call Wayne at Danny K's.
Well, you might wanna take out Willie from the esoteric aiming system practitioner. Former world class staright pool player and former Mosconi exhibiton sparring partner Wayne Norcross knows what system Mosconi used.
It's called the ghost ball. You can call Wayne at Danny K's.
BS.av84fun said:
If you want to know Efren's system, call Alex Laoingco at Stix in Rancho.
Another female pro is walking around claiming Efren told her there's only 3 in pool as far as pocketing.